SSD brands... are these "off brand" drives just as good?

cogwheel

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I'm also awaiting delivery of a Sabrent NVMe drive from Amazon, to replace the meager 128GB SSD that came with my laptop. I'm reading great things about Sabrent, so why not give them a shot? It only costs $2 more than the competing Samsung 980 Pro, so I'm willing to give it a shot in my personal laptop that has nothing important on it.
For laptops, the top choice right now is probably SK Hynix. They've reliably tested at significantly lower power consumption than average while also delivering performance close enough to the top you'll never notice the difference.

I guess it’s like Magna Intl. Nobody’s heard of them, but like 20% of the components in virtually every car made by all the big car companies are made by them.
Well, I've heard of Magna Steyr...
 

asbath

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For laptops, the top choice right now is probably SK Hynix. They've reliably tested at significantly lower power consumption than average while also delivering performance close enough to the top you'll never notice the difference.
I actually wanted to get the SK Hynix first, but it was almost $10 more, so not really worth it if it's just going to run Windows and a web browser. At least it's not worth the extra cash assuming I'll get 7 years out of it
 
Previously, I had inquired as to the best available SSDs at the present. continuum said the Samsung and Crucials were still available. I checked today on the Egg, and you could buy the Samsung 870 Evo 250GB, and the 870 EVO 500GB, for the same price! 39.99. I don't need 500, but for the price I quess I'll find a need for 500. The Crucial BX500 480GB is a mere 29.99. It's a good day to shop.
 

Paladin

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SSDs use 'wear leveling' which means they store data across the drive evenly so having free space is a very good thing. Any failing part of the drive can usually be recovered by moving the data to another free section of the flash so the more free space you have, basically, the longer the drive will last before unrecoverable failure. Running them near full is a good way to make them die faster and to lower performance in general.
 

asbath

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SSDs use 'wear leveling' which means they store data across the drive evenly so having free space is a very good thing. Any failing part of the drive can usually be recovered by moving the data to another free section of the flash so the more free space you have, basically, the longer the drive will last before unrecoverable failure. Running them near full is a good way to make them die faster and to lower performance in general.
That's why I've purposely overprovisioned this SSD so that the partition is only about 60% of the full drive capacity. I don't need all that space, (500GB) so 250GB is more than enough room for what I'm using it for. By overprovisioning, I'm hoping to give the drive a few extra years of use by nearly doubling the amount of space the drive to spread the wear around.
 
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Andrewcw

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So i tore open my lowed dell laptop to throw in 2TB instead of 512GB. And talk about cost cutting.
It's cheaper for them to rig a metal extender bar to make a 38mm m.2 fit into a 80mm area. rather then make two holes.

Also they use ADATA. So i guess ADATA is still a coin toss either they got to reliable quality or Dell doesn't care about their lowend consumer line. Could go either way ;)
 
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I just received my new Samsung 870 EVO 500GB SSDs yesterday. I was reading through these posts concerning SSDs, and I have a question or two. It seems there are some possible issues concerning the Samsung 870 EVOs. I haven't been keeping up with information on this line of SSDs. I seem to be about a year behind. I'm going to take a run at backblaze.com and see what I can find. Is there another source that can provide information. I still find Ars to be a cumulative source, but I still try to find what i need before I come here.
 

asbath

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From what I recall reading, there's a batch (or batches) of 870 EVOs that have bad quality control or something. They die prematurely, but it's noticeable if you use an application like CrystalDiskInfo to view your SMART data. You'll notice (bad) values increasing way faster than they should. If you happen to have such a drive, just RMA it. Since your drive is brand new, you'll be able to see the values increase with abnormal speed to know that it's a bad drive.

Here's a link to TechPowerUp that goes into quite a bit of detail regarding the issue: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...ware-certain-batches-prone-to-failure.291504/
 

Andrewcw

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Yeah, I'm running them in RAID.
Ah yes i remember when they said SSD's are so reliable you can run Raid-0 and be fine.

Only until you run into it on an actual product. I bought a OCZ $1400 card for the business 160GB which was huge for the day. As they didn't make SAS SSD's back in the day and it was a PCIe card. It was lighting fast for the time. It turned out to be 4 40GB modules strapped together with an LSI controller. They never really mention it was a raid-0 product. It was the early days of SSD.

I almost lost all my data when one of the modules went flaky. I was lucky enough to catch it in time to copy all my data back to the slow 10K Cheetahs. And further lucky I left the initial data on those drives because 30GB of changes to copy over vs 120GB of data was much faster. And no i did not want to have to restore off a backup.
 
From what I recall reading, there's a batch (or batches) of 870 EVOs that have bad quality control or something. They die prematurely, but it's noticeable if you use an application like CrystalDiskInfo to view your SMART data. You'll notice (bad) values increasing way faster than they should. If you happen to have such a drive, just RMA it. Since your drive is brand new, you'll be able to see the values increase with abnormal speed to know that it's a bad drive.

Here's a link to TechPowerUp that goes into quite a bit of detail regarding the issue: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...ware-certain-batches-prone-to-failure.291504/

From what I recall this was a firmware issue, if you update the firmware it should resolve the issue (as long as its not too late already). Updating SSD firmware is relatively painless (for Samsung drives at least for sure) so you should probably do this anyways.
 

leet

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From what I recall this was a firmware issue, if you update the firmware it should resolve the issue (as long as its not too late already). Updating SSD firmware is relatively painless (for Samsung drives at least for sure) so you should probably do this anyways.
In my experience (it's been a while since I bought a new SSD) updating firmware is relatively painless on Windows, but may involve wiping the drive, so best done before you start to use the drive. May or may not be possible on a Mac. Not sure about Linux.
 
In my experience (it's been a while since I bought a new SSD) updating firmware is relatively painless on Windows, but may involve wiping the drive, so best done before you start to use the drive. May or may not be possible on a Mac. Not sure about Linux.
Again, specifically coming from Samsung drives, I've updated old drives that were 80% full (even windows install drive) with no issues or warnings about potential data loss, but yeah. as with any firmware update, proceed with caution :)

Samsung Magician software works pretty well in Windows

also: in this instance I'm remembering, SMART bricks the drive, if you dont update the firmware before that, its dead. which is uhhhhh, not ideal. pretty sure the drive is fine after a firmware update as long as its not put into locked status prior to that. So yeah, always check for firmware updates :)

one more edit: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/samsung-980-pro-ssd-failures-firmware-update
 
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midigark

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You will probably, at one time or another, run into the famous back-scratching production method.

Back in the day, I mean way-back, there used to be around 100+ trademark companies that sold VHS VCR's, while there were only 14 or so component manufacturers and 9 or 10 actual VCR builders. I used to work on them and you go out and purchase a SAM'S Photofacts Service manual for a Sharp SV1100 and the manual would clearly state on the cover:
Also for:
GoldStar ######
Emerson #####
Sears #####
LLoyd's #####

Same metal box with the same components, in the same place with a different plastic bezel on the front.

A famous case-in-point is when Mitsubishi wanted to enter the low/medium end consumer market and contracted Sharp to sell them one of their better models and Mitsubishi had new (and much cooler) front bezels made for the box. Part of the deal was that Sharp wanted to enter the mid to high end consumer market and with the same deal, purchased a batch of Mitsubishi's middle of the line boxes and had new bezels made for them. lol
"You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours."

People used to laugh at "Radio Shack High End Home Audio" equipment.

Most of that equipment was made by Pioneer, Sony, Technics, Kenwood, Teac, Tascam, just to name a few. Back in the mid-to-late 70's, they had some prime audio equipment that were sleepers. People had no idea. And one way to tell is to look at the back and you will find a number under the (UL) circle that by federal law - cannot be altered - and it points to a "File" at Underwriters Laboratories that defines who made the thing. Doesn't matter what the "branding" is or what the manual says.

Take Western Digital. They've purchased at least two - if not more - competing rotating memory storage companies (hard drives). Did they do anything more than slap a Western Digital label on the Maxtor drives that were being rebranded as Western Digital drive? Nope! But, the physical shape of the drive chassis always gave it away.

Another way to find out if the SSD in question was made by a reliable/reputable company, is to check and see if they also make a real "Data Center Professional" line - not just "#### Pro". These devices will be easily identified by a 10 year or longer warranty and an extra decimal place (or two) on the price tag. And, no - not every quality manufacturer will have that product line. But, if they do, it's a good indication that they are serious about all of their products. A bad wrap in a consumer product will impact their data center product sales.

Just to clarify. Hynix has been a - go to - memory maker for years. Their products have been finding their way into most major brands of storage devices with the exception of those that make their own silicon, such as Samsung.

Too bad, small computer components don't have this.
I'm reminded of the scene in Blade Runner when he identifies the maker of a snake by a serial number on one of the scales. ;)

1711076002351.png
 
I've been involved with the design aspects of SSDs for years now. There are a couple places where things get real interesting. One is the flash controller, Phison is the leader for the moment. You'll probably find one in any given drive you disassemble. However, that's just the chip; the drive manufacturer gets to customize the firmware for whatever features they want to enable, and also to tailor the firmware to a workload if they're really going to market the whole drive as serious hardware. I've seen both major reliability issues and major performance enhancements that all came down to firmware tweaks.

Then there's the actual flash chip; the tech inside those is both shrinking and getting more "analog" as they move to multi-level cells. Based on the charge in the flash cell, they infer 2 or 3 bits of data based on a more or less analog voltage, which is wild. AMD/Spansion had a split cell architecture where the left and right halves of the cell were separate bits that charged fully, to try to mitigate that analog issue but still double the capacity. Cool stuff. It all has implications on wear and reliability, so they build in ECC too. Now you've got charge pump management, error handling, row/column decode, interface protocols, so every flash chip has an embedded MCU too (literally 8051s a long time ago). You don't get to play with that firmware so they're mostly fancy state machines but it's fun to think about it.

Do the off-brand drives do their due diligence to spec good firmware and flash chips? Nah. Even the big boys screw it up from time to time but hopefully they've got friendly RMA departments.
 

cogwheel

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they infer 2 or 3 bits of data based on a more or less analog voltage, which is wild.
4 bits per cell (i.e. QLC) was first made in commercial quantities in 2009, and and started seeing use in consumer SSDs in 2018.

Interestingly, it looks like the next obvious evolution (PLC, 5 bits per cell) may never reach commercial production, since the storage increase is only 25% but the number of possible states per cell doubles from 16 to 32. Dealing with 16 cell states reliably over time is hard enough, so the future may just be more layers for more cells (until we move to an entirely different storage system, like the move from HDDs to SSDs) instead of trying to make each cell that much more of a precision analog device.
 
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lenjack

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(Full disclosure, I don't actually know if they are "off brand" manufacturers, they're just not the mainstream ones that I recognize, such as Samsung, Western Digital, Sandisk, Kingston, Crucial, Corsair, etc.)

My media server's Crucial M500 finally died, after about 7 years of use. I'm looking to replace it with another SSD, and was looking at just dropping in whatever Samsung, Kingston, WD, Sandisk, Crucial, or whatever SATA SSD was on sale at the local shop.

But recently I noticed online some other brands like Silicon Power, Sabrent, SK Hynix, Inland, Apacer, Team Group.... the list goes on. I recognize some brands from having bought accessories (Sabrent) and RAM (SK Hynix), so I know that they're not necessarily new comers to the general industry, but I never knew that they made SSDs in the consumer space.

Are these branded drives going to be as good as one of the more recognizable branded drives? I don't mean in terms of performance, but general reliability and trustworthiess (forgetting WD's Red drive kerfuffle recently). I remember years ago that ADATA was a brand to avoid, avoid, avoid, but yet there's so many other brands I hadn't heard of or rarely heard of that are flooding the market, so I don't know if I should be considering an Inland or Apacer SSD over a run of the mill, low performance Sandisk that just gets the job done?

Been using an Adata 500G for about 5 or 6 years, with ot even a hint of problems.
 

tiredoldtech

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Been using an Adata 500G for about 5 or 6 years, with ot even a hint of problems.
Same here (Adata). I mean, it's slow as $h1t, but it gets the job done for a boot drive (much faster storage on the machine in question for logging, streaming, etc). I've seen some funky things with "off-branded" storage (oddly fast writes with crawling reads, clearly perceived momentary hang during a data transfer, etc), but at least the Adata I have is consistent- so I know what to expect compared to "name-branded" units.