Seamless roaming between APs is a great feature, but completely unnecessary for quite a lot of people (see below). Alerting for devices going offline may be more useful if you don't live at the location, but I personally see that as marginal utility at best.
Name brand access points that don't use a controller
- Thread starter Lord Evermore
- Start date
Some people don't want to use their phone for configuration. Of course Aruba supports a web portal, but you have to have an active internet connection to set it up either way as far as I can tell. Also some people don't want to be beholden to someone else's off-site computer for their device's functionality.
These are nice features for a remote site with multiple APs. They are meaningless for the OP's use case, however.
Last edited:
You don't seem to understand it. "Standalone" means all management and monitoring functions are part of the AP. Being required to use an app on a phone, or a controller on a PC, or a hardware controller, or a cloud controller, to configure any settings, means it's not a standalone AP. If it can't be accessed by any other device with standard tools (web browser, telnet, ssh) and managed and monitored using that tool, it's not a standalone AP. If you configure it with an app or some type of controller, and then delete the app or controller software or stop paying for the cloud controller, there's no access to that AP, no way to change settings, no way to look at client data, there is no historical data stored for even a short time (granted a consumer AP might not keep much), nothing. Any AP that is designed to depend on a particular outside device is not a standalone AP.
If you only have a single AP, roaming is irrelevant. How is an AP that doesn't talk to a controller going to alert for a device going offline? You're telling me about how great the features of a controller (even if it's just an app on a phone, that's a controller) are when I ask for information about APs that don't use a controller. Why are half of you trying to convince me that I really ought to get an AP tied to a controller in order to get features I don't need, or that I don't actually need any of the features I say I want unless I'm willing to compromise and use a controller to get them?
Sometimes until you try something, you don't understand why it might be valuable to you. People who have had good experiences with things that might meet your needs in ways you don't expect or might provide benefits you can't/haven't imagined yet.
What you are asking for is clear, everyone knows what a 'standalone' AP is in general terms but something can be 'standalone' and use a variety of management interfaces. It can have a local web interface, CLI only, web interface and an app for management or only an app, or primarily a cloud interface with a local basic setup only feature set. All of those are 'standalone' to a lot of people when the normal alternative to standalone is 'lightweight AP that requires a software management appliance (VM or hardware, etc.)'.
Your desire to avoid a phone app, cloud management portal, or other specific things isn't implicit in 'standalone AP' though it is understandable for the basic need of a single AP at home. I have the same preference in general though I would not mind a cloud managed one as long as there is decent long term support and no ongoing cost. Most of my home wifi routers have had lifespans in the range of 7-10+ years so if I get one that has a cloud management feature, I will want to have it be supported for around that long. If they drop it or drop the cloud management after 3 years, that's just generating e-waste for no reason.
What you are asking for is clear, everyone knows what a 'standalone' AP is in general terms but something can be 'standalone' and use a variety of management interfaces. It can have a local web interface, CLI only, web interface and an app for management or only an app, or primarily a cloud interface with a local basic setup only feature set. All of those are 'standalone' to a lot of people when the normal alternative to standalone is 'lightweight AP that requires a software management appliance (VM or hardware, etc.)'.
Your desire to avoid a phone app, cloud management portal, or other specific things isn't implicit in 'standalone AP' though it is understandable for the basic need of a single AP at home. I have the same preference in general though I would not mind a cloud managed one as long as there is decent long term support and no ongoing cost. Most of my home wifi routers have had lifespans in the range of 7-10+ years so if I get one that has a cloud management feature, I will want to have it be supported for around that long. If they drop it or drop the cloud management after 3 years, that's just generating e-waste for no reason.
They can do an 'on device' controller install called Mobility Express.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MxDGM7ilzE
There is a procedure to convert a lightweight one to a mobility express managed system too.
@Paladin Nifty. In my years dealing with Cisco, I honestly never messed with that. I wonder if it supports the Cisco gear I have laying around as it would be interesting to breathe life into a unit collecting dust for no reason other than it's slower than my current AC gear.
Looking into the Cisco Mobility Express documentation (https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/support/wireless/mobility-express/series.html), it does point out specifically, the 3802 series in a few places, including a recent "Some 3802 Wireless Access Points Might Be Unable to Connect to the Wired Network - Replace on Failure". If one is looking to get some of these 3802's cheap, it appears avoiding Dec 2017/Jan 2018 manufacture dates would be advised (the affected lot).
Hell, $20 is a decent deal for cheap, fast access points when you add this option in. Thanks for pointing that out!
Looking into the Cisco Mobility Express documentation (https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/support/wireless/mobility-express/series.html), it does point out specifically, the 3802 series in a few places, including a recent "Some 3802 Wireless Access Points Might Be Unable to Connect to the Wired Network - Replace on Failure". If one is looking to get some of these 3802's cheap, it appears avoiding Dec 2017/Jan 2018 manufacture dates would be advised (the affected lot).
Hell, $20 is a decent deal for cheap, fast access points when you add this option in. Thanks for pointing that out!
I don't know if they're name brand enough for you, but I had good results with some Hawking ones. Not sure of the model number - I don't have them close at hand here to look at.
Yes, it is.
If I knew I could easily get legitimate latest firmware for it, I'd probably get one of the Cisco units and do the Mobility Express configuration, which I'd never heard of either but I haven't had a chance to really work with Cisco gear for some years. One of the UniFi units would probably work just as well, but Cisco is Cisco (unless it's Linksys).
I didn't even know Hawking still existed. They used to be considered a decent brand for many networking devices. They don't have many products listed on Amazon, or even on their own website.
I found Tenda does have quite inexpensive models that would work, and they may not be huge but I believe they're considered not bad for the price. And Netgear does seem to have models that can be managed locally, they just market them on their site only by referencing their cloud controller services or bury them. At least it does seem that what I want exists, perhaps fewer in number than in the past, but the companies downplay the local configuration and management options so much that it seems like they just aren't available.
I'll probably end up with one of the UniFi models (or perhaps another brand) that I can get from eBay and put OpenWrt on, or maybe the Cisco in Mobility Express mode if I find a way to get firmware.
The Unifi APs don't need the controller. If you have a simple setup (just wifi, no VLANs or anything else) you can configure them as standalone from the mobile app.
And, again, as I've repeatedly said, this is not a "standalone AP", it's just a controller-managed AP that isn't talking to a controller and so has nothing but the most basic functionality, and still depends on the controller or app for any management.
You can ssh into a Unifi AP and then edit cfg files to manage it, all without ever using an app or controller. Or is your criteria that it needs web management? (because you're not 1337 enough for some command line fun? 
)
I mean, if it doesn't have a serial port is it really 'standalone'?
)I mean, if it doesn't have a serial port is it really 'standalone'?
The controller based features wouldn't be possible on a standalone AP. Things like seamless roaming, single pane of glass for multiple APs and sites, no remote management and stats, those are n/a on a consumer router/ap combo anyway, or applicable with n=1.
If you're good with that and using an app instead of a browser, it works just fine.
So I guess some people are just going to keep saying that I need to get a device type that I've specifically said is something I don't want, which doesn't have the features I am looking for, and has features and requirements that I've said I don't want or need, and telling me that an option on those same devices is what I want when it's patently not and I've said so repeatedly.
Manually configuring the device still isn't making it a fully-functional standalone device. That's still basically nothing more than what I'd get by configuring it with the app and then leaving it alone. (Also last time I used a UniFi, about 2.5 years ago, the command line didn't offer any configuration functions other than setting the "inform" URL, rebooting, and factory resetting which rarely even worked.)You can ssh into a Unifi AP and then edit cfg files to manage it, all without ever using an app or controller. Or is your criteria that it needs web management? (because you're not 1337 enough for some command line fun?
I mean, if it doesn't have a serial port is it really 'standalone'?
If it really had the same features as most web interfaces, maybe command line would be okay, but it's not like they're running a full Linux distro with real-time status update tools via command line (like top but displaying clients or wireless signal info). Web interface is simply the de facto easy-to-use method of managing such devices, whether local or controller-based, because GUIs are nice if you have the resources.
No I'm just correcting your errors in the following claims which are clearly wrong
Unifi firmware is fine running on its own, the controller just manages roaming and advanced PBR, and of course remote centralized management. On it's own it isn't much worse than a random AP except that it doesn't function as a router.
The only thing you got right is no web server, only an app API endpoint instead. That's not necessarily a con.
I'd look into what is supported by the current release of OpenWRT and then shop around for deals on those. Focus on those where the install method is easy / non-invasive.
Or you could look into devices that come with OpenWRT already installed, like this one. MediaTek have open drivers available so devices based on their chipsets can run on open firmwares and still handle modern wireless standards.
Or you could look into devices that come with OpenWRT already installed, like this one. MediaTek have open drivers available so devices based on their chipsets can run on open firmwares and still handle modern wireless standards.
Found one for $20 that’s about as dumb and non-cloudy as you can get.
Limited-time deal: TP-Link WiFi Access Point TL-WA801N, 2.4Ghz 300Mbps, Supports Multi-SSID/Client/Bridge/Range Extender, 2 Fixed Antennas, Passive PoE Injector Included https://a.co/d/eT0w3Wo
And an AC model for $40
Limited-time deal: TP-Link AC1200 Wireless Gigabit Access Point Desktop Wi-Fi Bridge MU-MIMO & Beamforming Supports Multi-SSID/Client/Range Extender Mode 4 Fixed Antennas Passive PoE Powered (TL-WA1201) https://a.co/d/93flibE
There ya go, a basic AP only box with nothing frivolously added on to increase cost.
Limited-time deal: TP-Link WiFi Access Point TL-WA801N, 2.4Ghz 300Mbps, Supports Multi-SSID/Client/Bridge/Range Extender, 2 Fixed Antennas, Passive PoE Injector Included https://a.co/d/eT0w3Wo
And an AC model for $40
Limited-time deal: TP-Link AC1200 Wireless Gigabit Access Point Desktop Wi-Fi Bridge MU-MIMO & Beamforming Supports Multi-SSID/Client/Range Extender Mode 4 Fixed Antennas Passive PoE Powered (TL-WA1201) https://a.co/d/93flibE
There ya go, a basic AP only box with nothing frivolously added on to increase cost.
Not sure what either of those recommendations have over the TP-Link EAP225. They're not intended for ceiling- or wall-mounting, they use passive PoE that will require an injector instead of being able to run off a PoE switch, and they're only marginally cheaper.
They don't have the expensive extra features of the EAP225 that Lord Evermore doesn't want to pay for.
That is a fine suggestion. But the problem is that much like the Unifi options suggested prior, that EAP225 has optional Omada central management which dearest OP does not wish to pay for.
So, TP-Link does have a basic plain Jane Wifi 6 AP as well with no added expensive features.
But it’s $80.
But it’s $80.
Well, anything less than AC would be stupid to get unless you only have N devices, and 2.4GHz N in particular is ridiculously slow. But the TL-WA-1201 is one I was looking at initially because it was pretty much the ONLY one I could find that fit the bill, and prompted the post asking why there aren't many others. I wasn't just asking for recommendations, I was asking why there are so few. I have been given a few others that looked good, plus options for modifying the controller-based models (and pointing out that some like the Omada DO have standalone modes), but there are still definitely a lot fewer options than there used to be. I still think $50 is not a ridiculously low price to expect to pay for a decent home-use single access point (not top of the line, maximum features, very latest specification, 12 antennas, designed for 300 users), despite general increases in prices over the last 20 years, and I lament the fact that there are so few that meet my desired features and price while their are dozens that are extremely over-engineered for the consumer market.
Last edited:
Have we all just collectively DavidH’ed up this thread with nerd rage?
I hear pony’s in the distance.
On topic, Check out Zyxel.
I hear pony’s in the distance.
On topic, Check out Zyxel.
Well the passive PoE isn't an issue since I don't have a PoE switch and it would be a rare home that has one. But being PoE at all IS a nice feature where doesn't increase cost greatly. The EAP225 works with both types, and includes an injector, but so does the TL-WA1201. A lot of the more expensive controller-managed models DON'T include an injector which would increase the cost. But the mounting options are something I'd really like as well, and not having to worry about antenna arrangements. If I decided to go with a new unit, I'd likely pay the few extra bucks for the EAP225, but I'm strongly considering a used UniFi and putting OpenWrt on it (though if I have to buy an injector that will negate most of the cost savings).
Not a terrible option. Maybe a little more expensive than I was looking to spend for current models, but an AX1200 model is only $19. And unlike everyone else, they make it very clear that there is a "traditional" standalone mode or free cloud controller and even provide that as a search filter on their website product listings.
Per @Paladin 's prior post, there are $20 Cisco 3802i AeroNet units available on eBay, with current available firmware (just simply make a free Cisco account to access) as of Mar 2023 for Mobility Express (stand-alone). Cisco 3800 Series Mobility Express Release 8.10.185.0 Software They have POE support, as well as a bunch of other options in the unit/firmware- and they are ceiling mountable. It appears to be a win-win with a little effort to just update them before putting them in place.
Cool. I didn't know they offered firmware for anything for free. And they've still got years of support so the firmware might be kept up for a while, at least for major issues.
I was just reminded that neither DD-WRT nor OpenWrt actually support band-steering, which seems kind of ridiculous. OpenWrt has packages that can emulate it to varying degrees of functionality and success, but that does put a damper on my enthusiasm for using those. Even the Arris SBG10 cable gateway I use which came out 6 years ago supports band steering. The Asus RT-AC56R I'm using as an AP right now also doesn't support it in the stock firmware, and it's quite annoying to have my phone sometimes connecting to the slower SSID, or not being able to control which one it uses if I just use the same name for both (because of course Android doesn't have the capability of preferring one).
If you already have a POE switch or any flavor of POE injector, here's the EAP223 just under the magic $50 mark.
Is the 223 literally the same AP was the 225 just with no power adapter included? I can't find any other difference between the two models.
Ancient just disconnect the client band steering never worked well.
You want to provide clients with a list of channels to listen on for better signal, via https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11k-2008
That is much faster than cycling through channel 1 to 177, stop on each one and listen for beacons.
With the right APs you don't drop a ping while roaming. This also applies switching from 5 Ghz to 2.4 Ghz, hey, your signal is low, try channel 1 for me but longer range.
802.11v allows the network to steer clients, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11v-2011
It's 2024. I will never buy another AP without k/r/v support, any mesh master can play controller and support these standards. Or Unifi, Omada, Aruba ION, Mikrotik with a (cloud or local) controller.
The EAP225 v3 and v4 does specify it supports 802.3at power (I don't know how that's different since an at power injector or switch is backward compatible, so there's no need to negotiate at power levels if the device doesn't need it), and for some reason there is one specific version of the EAP225 (3.20) that doesn't support Zero-Touch provisioning. The EAP225 V5 also uses 48V passive PoE instead of 24V. Based on this page, it looks like maybe the EAP223 also is not regulatory compliant for the EU, as it doesn't have a max power consumption for that region, which could also explain part of the price difference. (MUCH stricter power limit apparently.) The EAP225 V5 has slightly lower consumption even in the US. And TP-Link only provides information about the V4 and V5 on their non-US pages. The V5 also for some reason supports one less SSID.
TP-Link Omada Comparison Charts — McCann Tech
All my charts for comparing TP-Links’s models of Omada Wireless Access Points, Routers, Switches, and Controllers.
evanmccann.net
This Redditor said they got a 225 and the controller identified it as an EU model, and someone replying mentioned the V4 is the same hardware as the V3 outdoor model due to TP-Link having to work around supply chain issues.
View: https://new.reddit.com/r/TPLink_Omada/comments/12tvczl/eap225_model_differences/
For only $4 more (currently) I'd get the EAP225 with a passive injector, because I don't have anything for power currently. If it was at full price then I might get the EAP223 and an inexpensive injector.
Last edited:
Works fine wherever I've used it, and having to notice that performance is slow and switch apps to manually disconnect and reconnect is a pain in the ass. And again you keep bringing things up that I don't give a fuck about, like roaming. I just want to be able to move about in my house, leave and come back, and be sure I'll connect to the best signal on the band with the best speed.
Band steering is roaming. Just with 1 AP and two bands, until WiFi 7 and Multi Link Operation allows you to connect via 2.4/5/6 to a single AP concurrently.
"Works for me", on what AP? Whenever I enabled it I get clients that just get stuck. Phones that think meh, this SSID kicked me, let's not use it for a while. The old fix was having separate SSIDs but that makes it different and not better.
I'm seeing lots of these in the UK as well. Why are they so cheap? Is it because they're end of sale and so being removed from large installations and dumped on the used market?
I'm quite tempted to grab a couple and have a play, the Mobility Express firmware does seem to support wireless bridging.
Yup, basically massive deployments migrating to newer models. Some campus that has 3000 of them deployed all over outside and in buildings doing a huge upgrade to some newer model to soak up an end of year budget or whatever and it floods the secondary market with equipment that still works great and has a couple of years of security patch support left. No reason it needs to go in a landfill. 