The Hot Rod/Sweeter Spot Build (NAS edition)

steelghost

Ars Praefectus
4,975
Subscriptor++
Looking at more cores - would integrated graphics be helpful/important? Quiteness is important too, so not looking for a GPU for transcoding. Or should I be?

Not sure what is important - number of cores, yes... less so core performance? Wattage - low is good? If always on?
Some thoughts on this, in no particular order:

If you're spending appreciable money on building an always on appliance that you want to last for years, you want to focus on a solid platform, which in your case probably means a W680 chipset board, ECC RAM and a suitable CPU. You don't seem to have any particular need for a small build, so an ATX board makes sense as it gives you options for future expandability. W680 boards are not particularly mainstream, so look for a supplier for that first, and ideally some RAM that is on the manufacturer tested list. The obvious candidate (particularly since you've expressed a preference for Asus) would be the Pro WS W680-ACE that IceStorm mentioned. If you can, get the one with the bundled IPMI card, that is a nice feature to have for a system like this. This board has 2.5GBit ethernet onboard so it gives you the option to upgrade your LAN and have increased throughput.

"Suitable CPU" in this case realistically means "has integrated graphics and at least six cores". You could put a relatively low cost CPU like a 14400 or 14600 (both have six P cores but you get more E cores with the 14600) and it would still be considerable overkill for what you want. Set a reasonably low power limit on it (80W, say) and it'll run quiet with any half-decent cooler, but that's still enough power budget for plentiful performance. You absolutely can spend more on putting a 14700 or even a Xeon part in there, but for a box that is realistically going to spend 99% of its of time twiddling its tiny silicon thumbs, you're just increasing idle power for no gain in actual performance. I know you mentioned running VMs but the NAS part of this is, at most, going to wake up maybe two of the P-cores. That leaves you four P cores and all the E cores for....everything else. For reference, each E core is considerably quicker, per core, than your 2500k. So realistically, even the 14400 is overkill. You could probably do this just fine with the 14100 which is "only" four P-cores, but I can definitely see the argument for stepping up to the 14400 / 14600 (BTW don't get a CPU with a -F suffix, as these CPUs don't have a functional iGPU).

Two sticks of memory (Micron ECC should work fine - either 2x32GB or 2x48GB) and a couple of SSDs for a redundant boot and VM pool, and you're off to the races.
 
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N00balicious

Smack-Fu Master, in training
76
I did a NAS rebuild about three years ago. I used a build log by some guy, blackie or something, found on the internet and leading back to Ars.

This was the BOM.

CPU: Intel Xeon E-2336 Rocket Lake 2.9 GHz LGA 1200 65W BX80708E2336 Server Processor
CPU Cooler: Dynatron CPU Cooler K618 2U LGA1156 1155 Heat Pipes Aluminum Heatsink Retail
Motherboard: SUPERMICRO MBD-X12STL-IF-O Mini ITX Server Motherboard LGA 1200 Intel C252
RAM: 2x Supermicro (Hynix) 32GB 288-Pin DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600) Server Memory (MEM-DR432MD-EU32)
SAS/SATA Cable: Enlabs SFF86434SATA50CM Internal 12G HD Mini SAS SFF-8643 to 4 x SATA Cable Hard Drive Cable,HD Mini SAS Host/Controller
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 Computer Case US$115
Case Fans: Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-2000 PWM, Heavy Duty Cooling Fan, 4-Pin, 2000 RPM US$28
Case Fans: 2x Noctua NF-A9 PWM, Premium Quiet Fan, 4-Pin (92mm, Brown) US$34
PSU: Corsair SF Series, SF600, 600 Watt, Fully Modular Power Supply US$125
Storage (Data): 4x Seagate IronWolf Pro 12TB NAS Internal Hard Drive HDD US$1600
Storage (O/S): 2x Dogfish SSD 64GB 2.5 Inch Internal Solid State Drive SATA3 6Gb/s 7MM 3D NAND Height Desktop Laptop Hard Drive

I'm now using it with TrueNAS Scale. The CPU cooler is also rated for the mobo's socket, despite its name. Also Scale hosed-up the fan control. I had to go back in to manually tweak it. Note the serial number on the socket. The Supermicro password is no longer the default one.

One of the SSDs died about a year in, but it was easily replaced. I mounted them outside the disk cassette like was shown in the build log.

HTH
 

hansmuff

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
9,382
Subscriptor++
I still am running a SuperMicro XEON board with 32GB ECC, been up for 10 years and never crashed or behaved unexpectedly. It just keeps going. I just put a new 4x 8TB pool in there (raidz2 plus one hot spare, TrueNAS) and I just could not be happier.

I added an E-Bay 1660 Ti card for hardware en/decoding and that machine doesn't perform like it's 10 years old. Just great.

Not going to diss the ASUS board, it's probably every bit as capable. And actually a diss on SuperMicro, looks like the Windows IPMI client now needs a fairly expensive license so that's crap.
 
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N00balicious

Smack-Fu Master, in training
76
I still am running a SuperMicro XEON board with 32GB ECC, been up for 10 years and never crashed or behaved unexpectedly. It just keeps going. I just put a new 4x 8TB pool in there (raidz2 plus one hot spare, TrueNAS) and I just could not be happier.

I added an E-Bay 1660 Ti card for hardware en/decoding and that machine doesn't perform like it's 10 years old. Just great.

Not going to diss the ASUS board, it's probably every bit as capable. And actually a diss on SuperMicro, looks like the Windows IPMI client now needs a fairly expensive license so that's crap.
My first choice for my rebuild mobo was the ASRock RACK E3C256D2I. That was a long time in coming, despite the Internet-hype.

I then settled on the ASRock RACK X570D4I-2T, but tied myself in knots over SODIMM specs and cost.

Finally I threw-up my hands, and went with the above linked SUPERMICRO MBD-X12STL-IF-O, because I could purchase it immediately, and it didn't have SODIMM RAM.
 
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Conza88

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
136

Where I've currently landed - but open to changing to the Supermicro board.

Anyone know much about Start9/StartOS? Linux distro. Would want to run this, and instead of buying one of their products - have this as an option? Would that be best done by running e.g. TrueNAS Scale? And running a VM - and having that be StartOs?

https://docs.start9.com/0.3.5.x/diy/diy-x86

Open to all critiques of the above. I guess I would be adding in the 2 * 12 TB HDD from current setup? Risks there? It's truenas CORE. Best to just - copy everything to another external HD, and format them, and start again?
 

steelghost

Ars Praefectus
4,975
Subscriptor++
open to changing to the Supermicro board
It doesn't enormously matter for this use case, either board is considerable overkill. If you prefer the Asus, go that way.
The CPU you've picked is also enormous overkill, but it's your system at the end of the day :)

Anyone know much about Start9/StartOS
I've never heard of it before, but it reads like techbro BS, to be honest. If you want to run your own Bitcoin node then have at it I suppose, but if you just want to host stuff then you can do that directly in TrueNAS Scale, and I know which I'd trust more between the two.

Would that be best done by running e.g. TrueNAS Scale? And running a VM - and having that be StartOs?
That's definitely how I would set things up. Scale as the hypervisor, then you can try out whatever you like in a VM.

I guess I would be adding in the 2 * 12 TB HDD from current setup? Risks there?
Other than physical ones transferring them from their current home to the new one, not really.

Best to just - copy everything to another external HD, and format them, and start again?
Presumably they were a mirror in your current TrueNAS Core system? If so, all you'll need to do is connect them to your new Scale build and import the ZFS volume. You'll want to read up on this before you do it. If you have an external drive that you can back up to then that is always a good plan for any NAS / drive migration scenario.

I have wanted to use AI, but want the local - privacy piece as important.
"Use AI" is a pretty vague statement. If you have a decent GPU in your main PC then that's probably where you want to be dipping your toes into the water, but you'll want to identify the specific thing you want to do and look at the requirements for it.

Honestly I would put Start9 and self-hosted AI and whatever else to one side for now. Just focus on a solid NAS build, getting your data backed up and migrated, setting up shares on the new install, get backups from your PC or other devices sorted out, etc.

Once you're comfortable with the new system, the differences between Core and Scale, and you're happy that it's running reliably, then you can start playing around with other things. But I think you're trying to do parkour before you can walk :eek: ;)
 
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