How often for a new Build?

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cerberusTI

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  • #41
    malor said:
    I think the eDRAM doesn't do much because it's still DRAM. It's a little lower latency, but it still has the long refresh cycles, because DRAM constantly leaks.

    What CPUs really need on-die is static RAM, which can be clocked to very high speeds, but SRAM is much bigger than DRAM, and runs hot. That's what current CPUs use as cache, and that's why there isn't much of it. AMD, with its stacked static RAM on the X3D chips, gets major performance wins out of it, but has to clock the CPUs down because cooling through the SRAM layer on top is substantially harder.

    (Weirdly, I get better temps out of my 5800X3D than I did out of my 5800X, but that might be better CPU goop or a better application on my part.)
    Click to expand...
    Unless you overclocked it, that is not strange.

    5800X3D : 3.4ghz, boots to 4.5
    5800X : 3.8ghz, boosts to 4.7

    The X3D models (including the cache core in a 7950X3D, but not the other) are set a bit lower in their power curve.

    They could be better binned to make it less of a concern, but I am not sure. At least in the case of the 7000 series X3D chips, it was hard to get them to reach TDP without turning PBO on. My 7800X3D only drew 90W or so during a stress test with it off, and less in most operation.

    Looking it up, I see reviewers are getting numbers like 82W under full load, so that is not so unusual (a fair bit more for the 5800X3D, I am not sure what to make of that).
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/1879...eview-a-simpler-slice-of-v-cache-for-gaming/2

    TDP is like 120, and it should be able to do 160 for bursts, but it does not get anywhere near that.

    I got about 130W at full load on a 7950X3D where they get 144W, so it appears there is some variance on all of them.

    I keep it off just because that is a really marginal performance difference, and at 90W (or 130 to a slightly lesser degree), setting an appropriate time averaged power curve with a D-15 means by far the loudest thing in that computer is coil whine from various components (none in particular are bad, it requires being fairly close to hear that) or maybe video card fans when that is operating (although those are numerous and large enough that they also can be set fairly slow).

    It is much like why a notebook chip of the same type sips power in comparison to the biggest desktop version, except less so. They set it such that a worst case scenario is not so bad, and most chips will be way under this. They mean it on the limits though, including voltage and such, and so you are less able to make changes which would push it closer to the actual limits for your chip.
     
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    Jeff3F

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  • #42
    I feel like I stumbled into a sweet spot with my 6.5 year old 8700K and GTX1080 PC (1080 display). Yes, I would like to sample the waters of ray tracing, and yes I might prefer to try out 1440 or even 4K gaming, but any monitor upgrade will probably result in needing a GPU, which due to my use of a custom water cooling loop means tearing the whole thing apart. And then the inevitable “why stop at the GPU” self argument!

    I’ve just been super pleased with how the last PC has fared for me. I will wait and see what the next GPU gen brings before deciding what to do next, if anything!
     
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  • #43
    Jeff3F said:
    I feel like I stumbled into a sweet spot with my 6.5 year old 8700K and GTX1080 PC (1080 display). Yes, I would like to sample the waters of ray tracing, and yes I might prefer to try out 1440 or even 4K gaming, but any monitor upgrade will probably result in needing a GPU, which due to my use of a custom water cooling loop means tearing the whole thing apart. And then the inevitable “why stop at the GPU” self argument!

    I’ve just been super pleased with how the last PC has fared for me. I will wait and see what the next GPU gen brings before deciding what to do next, if anything!
    Click to expand...
    Well, you probably wouldn't NEED to get a new GPU right away for a better monitor. The GTX 1080 could probably do 1440p gaming and not look terrible or have too low FPS, depending on the games. (Buy it local and take it back if it does suck.) But then, trying to get just a new monitor might be the equivalent of "C'mon, baby, just the tip?"

    When I do upgrade my GPU, maybe somewhat soon, it's either going to be an RX 6000 or RTX 3000 series, and not the top-end models, or maybe the lowest of the 7000/4000 series depending on pricing. I don't need super performance for anything at all and refuse to blow the cash for the higher end even if the performance would benefit me, plus the amount of power draw is just stupid. I only went from a GTX 750 Ti 2GB to an RX 580 8GB 5 months ago.
     
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  • #44
    Lord Evermore said:
    Well, you probably wouldn't NEED to get a new GPU right away for a better monitor. The GTX 1080 could probably do 1440p gaming and not look terrible or have too low FPS, depending on the games. (Buy it local and take it back if it does suck.) But then, trying to get just a new monitor might be the equivalent of "C'mon, baby, just the tip?"

    When I do upgrade my GPU, maybe somewhat soon, it's either going to be an RX 6000 or RTX 3000 series, and not the top-end models, or maybe the lowest of the 7000/4000 series depending on pricing. I don't need super performance for anything at all and refuse to blow the cash for the higher end even if the performance would benefit me, plus the amount of power draw is just stupid. I only went from a GTX 750 Ti 2GB to an RX 580 8GB 5 months ago.
    Click to expand...
    I'm still using the Nvidia GTX 970. I had to replace it's fans twice, but otherwise it still going.
     
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  • #45
    whm2074 said:
    I'm still using the Nvidia GTX 970. I had to replace it's fans twice, but otherwise it still going.
    Click to expand...
    I might consider replacement more urgent when it stops getting the latest drivers.

    Pretty sure you asked this question somewhere else in recent-enough memory, and one of the people nice enough to respond to you there included a great resource:
    forum.manjaro.org

    When will Nvidia drop support for the 900 series?

    It looks like it is still supported by the latest beta driver 510.39.01 (see Linux x64 (AMD64/EM64T) Display Driver | 510.39.01 | Linux 64-bit | NVIDIA) as well: So it looks like there’s currently no need to worry 🙂
    forum.manjaro.org forum.manjaro.org

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    NVIDIA GPUs

    Check end-of-life, release policy and support schedule for NVIDIA GPUs.
    endoflife.date endoflife.date

    Back to your opening question:
    How often for a new build
    Click to expand...
    I would say it's when you feel your current computer is no longer satisfying to use. That may or may not include it feels sluggish/slow/unpleasant, there is some task that performs poorly or outright does not perform at all, and/or it is no longer stable/reliable. Under a slightly different category but also relevant is that it is no longer receiving required security updates and cannot be updated to do so easily, if at all (those two are not the same thing but they are grouped together for this purpose).
     
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  • #47
    hobold said:
    Tangentially relevant: I just replaced an 11 year old laptop with a shiny new one. The old one is still functional, but 2 cores @2GHz are struggling even with moderate tasks.
    Click to expand...
    My dad is still using a dual core Pentium w/ 8GB I built for him in 2014. It is still using a harddrive. I have a 512GB SSD I'm thinking about using in his system.
     
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  • #48
    whm2074 said:
    My dad is still using a dual core Pentium w/ 8GB I built for him in 2014. It is still using a harddrive. I have a 512GB SSD I'm thinking about using in his system.
    Click to expand...
    Get that SSD installed, he is going to think you bought him a new computer when it is done :)

    I own a lot of crap that i have saved over the years, but i do not own any spinning rust, at least that i know about as i am sorting through stuff.
    My garage is the non-insulated kind where i like to spend some time, and sometimes i sit here during mornings with a coffee and planning my day.
    This box is surprisingly usable, but i do not use it for much either, just browsing the net with Firefox and sometimes listening to music. At this moment it was running 7 tabs and that was basically it.
     

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    Ananke

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  • #49
    ChrisG said:
    Personal rule of thumb is basically when you feel your existing hardware is feeling the strain. I've done major upgrades about once every 5 years since 2008, with smaller interim things like a new video card whenever I felt my existing one was struggling a bit. Went from an i5 2500K in 2009 > i7 8700K in 2018 > AMD 7800X3D in late 2023. The 7800X3D is a whole new build - case, CPU, mobo, PSU, GPU, RAM etc. (although still using my SSDs, sound card and peripherals from years ago), and is over twice as fast overall than the i7 + 2080 I had. Admittedly it was something like 3x as expensive, including a new monitor, but you only live once, I suppose, and it should tide me over for another few years.
    Click to expand...

    Pretty much the same for me. I could upgrade, and I could afford a decent upgrade; but I still don't really feel that I need an upgrade; or at least, I don't think I would enjoy it sufficiently more than the current one as would justify the (extravagant!) cost

    My current system was built in September 2019 with an i9-9900k and kept my GTX1080, storage, case and PSU. Given the games that I play, and the monitor I play them on (144Hz / 2560x1440), that's Still Fine (tm). Everything is "good enough".

    If - when, I guess - I feel the need to upgrade my GPU, I'll almost certainly have to replace case and PSU along with it, so I'll probably do one big, phenomenally expensive, upgrade and do everything all at once, leaving the current computer as a functional block I can either give to my gf, convert into a server, or sell.

    My previous computer - an i5-6600K from 2016 and a GTX1660Ti from 2020 - is still trucking along fine. It's survived two international moves and someone trying to drive a forklift truck through the box it was packed in; and running the games my girlfriend wants to play. If anything, I dare say that the not-so-subtle suggestions that maybe I'd like to upgrade and give her my current computer will be the main factor in eventually upgrading.


    Ditto on my personal laptop, too. It's too small (14"), old (i7-7700hq / gtx1050ti), and with a tiny battery (45Wh!). But on the other hand, it has a superb keyboard , a trackpad with Actual Buttons, more ports than you can shake a stick at, and new laptops are expensive, even before ordering internationally to get an acceptable keyboard layout. Meh. Maybe when something I can't fix breaks.
     
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  • #50
    I guess i am the local village idiot in this forum, but i am actually typing on a real PS/2 keyboard that was brand new in a box last year, which is a favorite of mine, coupled with an Apple HD Cinema from i think 2002 in mint condition. This is the garage setup, so clutter is normal :) (But i will straighten that out later).
     

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  • #51
    hobold said:
    Tangentially relevant: I just replaced an 11 year old laptop with a shiny new one. The old one is still functional, but 2 cores @2GHz are struggling even with moderate tasks.
    Click to expand...
    Yah. In another thread I think I mentioned replacing a dual-core Kaby Lake-U with a Raptor Lake-P (6P/8E/20T). And while I did expect to get reports of performance improvement, I did not expect feedback from that it was immediately and noticeably faster. Both were >=16GB memory and NVMe SSD so that should not be a difference.

    Ananke said:
    My current system was built in September 2019 with an i9-9900k and kept my GTX1080, storage, case and PSU. Given the games that I play, and the monitor I play them on (144Hz / 2560x1440), that's Still Fine (tm). Everything is "good enough".
    Click to expand...
    Given your setup is 8C/16T and your laptop is 4C/8T I'd say my assessment lines up with your experience, you're in a good spot right now as far as hardware goes. The Kaby Lake setup replaced above I think would have been much more viable to keep around if it was 4C/8T instead of 2C/4T.
     
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  • #52
    My next "build" is going to be different, very different. Going from a 5800X (home office) // 10700K (office) to a M3 Pro in a 16" MBP. Oh and a MBP 13 with i5-8259U for on the go, I don't work on that docked as it is a bit slow now.

    Some of my software builds take up to 8 minutes to complete and it just breaks up my workflow too much. Nevermind the times that I try that on the Macbook, that CPU is way slower than the desktops. It's going to be faster, but how fast, that's the question.
     
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  • #53
    After getting a 2012 MacBook Pro, I fell in love with high dpi displays, so I was chasing solid 4k performance for a while. Upgraded every GPU generation and every ~3rd CPU generation. I feel like a finally reached the point of robust 4k60+ last gen and will be camping out here for a bit, I hope. A meaningful GPU upgrade at this point would also be too expensive for me even compared to my previous excessive PC part purchases.
     
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  • #54
    I was going 10+ years on my I7 in a GA-Z77X-D3H + 2080Superuntil a reverse Bob Ross Unhappy accident w/my EVGA 750W slowly failing.
    Power up, did okay, but once the load hit...BSOD, reset or shut down, sometimes all 3.

    I didn't catch it and really need a working computer for what I was doing. Built it of the 2012 Upgrade guide.

    Cue the last guide circa 2019 or 2021'ish so now I9 9900K 4070Ti...BIOS update reset the speed, did 4.8Ghz w/o issues.

    Going well and I7 back on it's feet, but not doing much besides Folding. If I'd caught the failing PSU earlier, I'd still be running it.
     
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  • #56
    I was running an i7-10700, with 32 Gigs of RAM, a 3060 Ti, and a hodge podge of ssds.

    I was considering an upgrade, as I was forced to move to Windows 11 and just wanted to do it all at once...upgrade the cpu/mobo essentially a rebuild. Then I started looking at all the power consumption, quality issues, and basic end of life for the socket on the intel side...comparing that with the AMD side, it's more efficient, but not as great in productivity (though honestly I suspect this is overblown and wouldn't be an issue on a daily driver).

    Doesn't seem like a good time to buy right now. I doubled the ram, got fresh new ssds, and did a clean install/reinstall. System is snappy and does everything I want it to without any issues. I think I'll hang on a bit longer.
     
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  • #57
    My upgrade cycles seem to be getting longer, though I do tend to stay on the bleeding edge of GPU power. I've had an Asus Crosshair VIII for a while now - it was originally running a 3900X, but now has a 5800X3D. The upcoming next major iteration of AMD chips will probably tempt me to do the full platform upgrade to AM5, unless Intel really pulls something special out.

    I miss the era of semi-annual upgrades that netted you 50-100% improvements back in the P2 / P3 days.
     
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  • #59
    NervousEnergy said:
    I miss the era of semi-annual upgrades that netted you 50-100% improvements back in the P2 / P3 days.
    Click to expand...
    I do not miss it, but back then, it was nice to be behind the curve as the CPU upgrades on Socket 7 and later Socket A was dirt cheap. AMD's Duron line was amazing back then.
    I only had top of the line once in my life, a FIC SD-11 Slot A based with an Athlon 650, but that slot was quite short-lived, and my CPU was not overclock-able much. I do not know why i remember that board, but i do.

    I replaced that with a Duron 800 as my first Socket A motherboard, but i cannot remember what motherboard i bought. I was AMD only from my first K6-2 350Mhz until the Wolfdale Core 2 Duo/Quads and Seti@home was a big thing. (E8400/Q9450's)

    I am not quite sure, but i believe my first ever x86 computer was a P120+ based Cyrix that i swapped out with a Pentium 120 for a short while. I also remember a P166 until i had a Pentium Pro 200 until that mentioned K6-2, then the Athlon, Duron, and several more until the Duron 1300. Then i think it was an XP1800+, a XP2400+ before my memory gets hazy until the E8400/Q9450 and a dark age after 2010 where i was on junk laptops for years until a 2200G system i built.
     
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  • #60
    To me, a Build is a from scratch effort. Upgrades are upgrades.
    The last time I put everything together from scratch was 2006. Athlon64 3800x or somesuch. It was upgraded to an Opteron 180 later the same year. Which says something about how often I crept up the ladder back then. Unfortunately, EBuyer has reset their accounts since then so if I'd have to guess it was a 7800GT that went with it. Pair of 250GB Seagates as my first boot mirror ever.

    Of course the only thing remaining from that Build is a single 250GB Seagate that I use for MAME. The Antec PSU blew out like so many did and took the 7800GT with it, replaced with a Seasonic PSU and a 9800GTX+ (I got a discount - even I know ATI was better that gen). Since then, there've been 4 CPUs, 5 GPUs and lord knows what else. Though I only replaced the Seasonic last month.
     
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  • #61
    Demento said:
    To me, a Build is a from scratch effort. Upgrades are upgrades.
    Click to expand...
    IMO, that's too tight of a definition. A 'new build' for me is a new MB and proc, as that's near total surgery. If I upgrade my AM4 to AM5 late this year or early next, that's a new build for me regardless of keeping the same storage, power, and possibly GPU. It's a full teardown and put-back when the MB comes out, with the exception of the power supply, and a good PS should last several builds.
     
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  • #62
    NervousEnergy said:
    IMO, that's too tight of a definition. A 'new build' for me is a new MB and proc, as that's near total surgery. If I upgrade my AM4 to AM5 late this year or early next, that's a new build for me regardless of keeping the same storage, power, and possibly GPU. It's a full teardown and put-back when the MB comes out, with the exception of the power supply, and a good PS should last several builds.
    Click to expand...
    So a new case is a new Build?
     
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  • #65
    whm2074 said:
    So how often do you guy build a new PC?
    Click to expand...
    I generally build something new every year. In my career I find it useful to stay abreast of the features the CPU offers, to be up-to-date about which parts of Linux work or don't work, and to see how software can be changed to work better on the newest systems. That's why I built a new Alder Lake system, so I could figure out how to exploit the UMWAIT instruction, and why I later got an i9, so I could practice in advance optimal programming for a many-core Atom architecture that Intel will eventually release as a Xeon, and why a year after that I got a Zen 4 system so I could practice working with AVX-512.
     
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  • #66
    jwbaker said:
    If I have to replace everything to qualify as "new build" then I've only done 2 new builds in the last 25 years.
    Click to expand...
    I may have never done a true 'new build' since my first 486-DX2 66 back in... 1994?... if you have to replace it all at once. My Thermaltake X5 case will likely host ever-changing components for years, and it's already overseen two major platform upgrades. A good power supply has a 10 year warranty - if you need more juice or standards change then that's one thing, but otherwise there's no point to replacing one that works fine, and it should outlast multiple platform evolutions.

    Demento said:
    So a new case is a new Build?
    Click to expand...
    No, a new MB and proc. Why would you replace a nice case unless your case requirements change? I had a Cooler Master ATCS 840 for something like... 7 or 8 years, and it eventually had everything in it replaced, some multiple times. Fantastic case for its era.
     
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  • #67
    NervousEnergy said:
    No, a new MB and proc. Why would you replace a nice case unless your case requirements change? I had a Cooler Master ATCS 840 for something like... 7 or 8 years, and it eventually had everything in it replaced, some multiple times. Fantastic case for its era.
    Click to expand...
    I can't think, right off the top of my head, why you could not use any case from the ATX — or as we used to say, "Baby AT" — era. You could build a Zen gaming PC in an InWin S500, probably.
     
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  • #68
    NervousEnergy said:
    I may have never done a true 'new build' since my first 486-DX2 66 back in... 1994?... if you have to replace it all at once. My Thermaltake X5 case will likely host ever-changing components for years, and it's already overseen two major platform upgrades. A good power supply has a 10 year warranty - if you need more juice or standards change then that's one thing, but otherwise there's no point to replacing one that works fine, and it should outlast multiple platform evolutions.


    No, a new MB and proc. Why would you replace a nice case unless your case requirements change? I had a Cooler Master ATCS 840 for something like... 7 or 8 years, and it eventually had everything in it replaced, some multiple times. Fantastic case for its era.
    Click to expand...
    I had an Antec Piano - highly recommended at the time, but the Psu was flawed - had to go Fractal to fit the 1070 I bought. Can't imagine when I'll need to replace my R5. Maybe when I need something smaller?
     
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  • #69
    jwbaker said:
    I can't think, right off the top of my head, why you could not use any case from the ATX — or as we used to say, "Baby AT" — era. You could build a Zen gaming PC in an InWin S500, probably.
    Click to expand...
    Most of my ATX cases were bigger than an IBM AT, until the mid-2000s when the need for large numbers of hard drives and optical drives fell off. I used my last full tower as a nightstand for years when it was no longer useful for my computers. But Baby AT did not refer to ATX. It was used for the PC/XT and everything until ATX. (Seemed so weird putting adapter cards in UPSIDE DOWN and with the CPU above them where all the heat would go.) Full ATX is actually a little bit larger in area than Baby AT, taller/deeper but not as wide.

    But not all cases can properly fit all power supplies, even if they're ATX. I ran into some along the way that had metal separators that would prevent an extended length PSU from fitting in. An older ATX case may not be as wide, either, limiting the large coolers used today, or may not have mounting locations and internal space where a water cooling setup could be attached. There is also a strong case (no pun intended) for replacing a chassis when the components change due to the airflow. If you had a case with 4 5.25" optical drives and 4 3.5" hard drives and a large video card and a sound card and a USB card and a large heatsink, and are switching to no optical drives, a smaller video card with as much or more performance or even using the IGP, no sound card or USB card, and an M.2 or 2.5" SSD, that's a lot of empty space that will drastically change the way air moves in the case. You wouldn't really need as many fans, but removing most of the ones previously used might result in air hardly moving out of the system. (Not to mention all the drive bay openings that you might not have the covers for anymore.)

    But from a technical standpoint, yes, any full ATX case can hold any ATX motherboard, though in some cases standoffs might have to be used instead of screws because they don't always use the full pattern of screw holes in the normal locations, or motherboards might have them slightly off from the standard.
     
    Nevarre

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  • #70
    Demento said:
    So a new case is a new Build?
    Click to expand...

    When you buy a new GPU that you mis-measured and it's about 5 mm too long so you have to buy a new case and then while you're at it you might as well get a beefier PSU for that GPU it is... (OK still not a new build but case swaps can be a huge massive pain.)

    (Pascal generation 1070ti upgrade to an Ivy Bridge i5-3570K triggered all of that, and GPUs were so hard to come by during the first mining crisis that there was no point in returning it and trying to find one that was shorter. It already took months to find any GPU at only a moderate markup and trying again might take months and cost you more in markup.)

    I extremely, extremely miss 2-3 year upgrade cycles and constant tweaking for performance. That Ivy Bridge technically still works, but with upgrades over the years it lasted from the day-one launch in 2012 until the day-one launch of Zen 2 in 2019 as my primary system and got used extensively in my home office through COVID until about late 2021.

    The Zen 2 3700X got upgraded to a 5800X3D and that was a shockingly large performance bump. The 3700X was later re-purposed into my kid's computer so it's not obsolete yet.
     
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  • #71
    Nevarre said:
    The Zen 2 3700X got upgraded to a 5800X3D and that was a shockingly large performance bump. The 3700X was later re-purposed into my kid's computer so it's not obsolete yet.
    Click to expand...
    I too was surprised how much of a performance boost I got. Most benchmarks showed about a ~15%-20% boost in single-threaded performance, but for some of my work that loves L3 cache I saw gains on the order of 30%-40%!

    My last new build was grabbing my X470 motherboard, a Ryzen 2600X, and 16 GB of DDR4 RAM. I replaced the case and the GPU (GTX 980 to a 1070 Ti) a few months later and the PSU about eight months after that. I've since dropped in the two aforementioned CPUs, and doubled the RAM to 32 GB on the same motherboard. I haven't been feeling a need to go faster than the 5800X just yet, but I'm guessing next year I'll likely want to do a motherboard/CPU/RAM upgrade. Or maybe replace the 3060 Ti with something a bit more capable, but so far most games that I'm playing (aside from Robocop: Rogue City) aren't pushing my setup too far beyond what it's capable of delivering.
     
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  • #72
    My last PC was a Skylake (i7-6700K) with a GTX 980 Ti GPU (that was later replaced by a 2060 Super when it died). I think that must have been late 2015 or early 2016.

    My current setup is a Ryzen 7 5800X, and an RTX 3080, built early 2021 (I actually managed to score the 3080 for RRP even!), so that was about 5-ish years, which actually felt to me like it was a bit overdue.

    I've been itching to build a new PC for a while now (mainly due to now having a 4K 165Hz monitor to drive), but I'm holding off for Zen 5/RTX 50-series...

    I don't usually upgrade piece-by-piece (I do have a slight SSD addiction - I can quit any time I want to, though!), unless something fails like the 980 Ti.
     
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    Ulf

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  • #73
    Nevarre said:
    When you buy a new GPU that you mis-measured and it's about 5 mm too long so you have to buy a new case and then while you're at it you might as well get a beefier PSU for that GPU it is... (OK still not a new build but case swaps can be a huge massive pain.)
    Click to expand...
    Or you buy a "silent" case with a solid front that has limited intake, and guess what, the newest components dump out an insane amount of heat compared to the older ones... :\
     
    NervousEnergy

    NervousEnergy

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  • #74
    Nevarre said:
    I extremely, extremely miss 2-3 year upgrade cycles and constant tweaking for performance.
    Click to expand...
    I didn't tweak much, but I also miss that 2-3 year cycle. PC gaming has been my primary disposable income hobby for 30 years, ever since firing up Doom shareware on my 486. Every couple of years it was like a Super Christmas when the latest chipset, CPU, and GPU was released and what entertainment software could do would undergo an order of magnitude improvement. Nothing will ever likely compete with installing the very first Voodoo Graphics card and firing up the included Wizard's Keep demo, but there have been plenty of other revelations through the years that have come close. Can't remember who on the forum called the Q6600 their new 'Tiny God', but I used that descriptor for years. FOUR CORES! Without running SMP. Just amazing.

    I've got simulation software (DCS, iRacing, IL2, etc.) that can bring any hardware money can buy to it's knees. I'd pay a lot for a 100% (or more) uplift in single thread processing speed. Takes a long time to get that these days, though.
     
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    Lord Evermore

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  • #75
    Nevarre said:
    I extremely, extremely miss 2-3 year upgrade cycles and constant tweaking for performance.
    Click to expand...
    I miss when components weren't ridiculously high-priced and increasing with every new release while wages weren't, and when you had a really wide selection of things to look for and combine. Optical drive (sometimes two or three), hard drive (maybe multiple), maybe even a hard drive controller for extra drives, CPU, sound card, video card, network card. Needing to select all those things was always in the enthusiast realm, but now even for most enthusiasts there are several of those items that are no longer needed at all, or they're integrated together (like motherboards with more than enough drive ports and a good chance you only need one anyway, good sound, really good networking) and are good enough quality for almost everyone. Instead of being able to pick and choose every individual item, you only get to choose from the set combinations produced by motherboard makers or you have to pay for all those integrated components AND for individual items you specifically want. The pure functionality of a computer is fulfilled with just a few parts, and all the mixing and matching is just superficial stuff.
     
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    DaveSimmons

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  • #76
    My i7 motherboard + CPU + RAM are from 2017 but I finally replaced the nv 980 GPU with a 3070 last year.

    I'm feeling the urge to upgrade to something with nvme drives instead of SATA, but not for any good reason. With the new card it plays all the games I want to including BG3 and Cyberpunk 2077.

    I might finally do a full upgrade next year when the nv 5070 and the AMD equivalent are out and past the initial price gouging stage. I'd also like to replace my ancient Antec P280 case that was inherited from the system before this.
     
    Nevarre

    Nevarre

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  • #77
    Lord Evermore said:
    I miss when components weren't ridiculously high-priced and increasing with every new release while wages weren't, and when you had a really wide selection of things to look for and combine.
    Click to expand...

    I'm old enough to remember the bad old days when even finding parts was kind of a struggle and prices were really high in relation to wages. The Pentium launched at around $800-900/CPU in 1993 and that's more like $1,800-$2,000 today. It was a definite uplift in performance over a 486/DX2-66 but less so against the DX4-100 and that money would have paid more than a month's rent for me in 1993. Around that time is when the 'clone' makers really went all out to capture the market for people who just couldn't afford Intel. AMD had been a value play since the 286/386 era, but Cyrix, IDT WinChip, the IBM Blue Lightning, NexGen before being bought by AMD for its technology etc. all hit the market. From the late 90's on (Socket7/SuperSocket7 to about Skylake) through the first mining crisis was pretty much the good times. Things remained fairly modular in that you could pick and choose various drives, CPU, sound cards etc. while GPUs were making massive gains and CPUs doing regular gains for mostly what were mostly flat prices once you account for inflation.

    Now my fear isn't needing to upgrade the components as aggressively, it's the fear that supply chains will dry up again. I have been caught waiting probably a generation too long here and there and got forced to buy a GPU during both mining crises. I have an RTX 4060 I could cannibalize from the kid's system if things go really pear shaped and my 3070ti dies and replacements are unaffordable. I didn't have to make that kind of calculation in the good old days. I would sometimes skip 2 GPU generations, but I think that's too risky now and with geopolitical issues around Taiwan, even holding off on a CPU upgrade that's not needed but nice to have isn't something I want to do anymore. Wages don't have to stagnate and you can set priorities on your purchases, but it's going to be almost impossible to deal with real shortages should things get ugly. You can't out-earn TSMC being shut down.

    There's another thread in the case and cooling fetish about 5.25" drives. That captures a lot of the complaints about modularity, but I'm here to admit that I have an external USB DVD-ROM drive I can pull out on the rare occasion I need it and that's probably a solved problem forever for me now. External drive bays were driven by need when storage was paltry and you needed a tape drive and a floppy and a CD-ROM and,... and... all the things. I do miss that.
     
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    hansmuff

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  • #78
    My upgrade cycle used to be 2-3y just because my PC is work and fun and I love performance improvements. But I'm finding myself slowing down, just because a well-built PC nowadays is not going to be "slow" after 5 years.

    I went from a 2600K to a 7700K for IPC and that was great, then to a Ryzen 3900X for multi-thread performance, also a good upgrade. But after a couple of years went to a 5950X and it's still plenty fast, the machine always waits for me even with demanding workloads (I don't do AV where that would change).

    I'm looking at Zen5 and may skip even that, then wait for Zen 6 to mature enough. What I'm going to upgrade is the 3080Ti with a 5xxx because I game at 3840x1600x144hz and the 3080Ti is great but uses a lot of power for not always delivering.

    In the end it looks like a 5 year cycle for me for most of the hardware. I tend to keep my cases for 10 years. Just went from a Corsair 660C to a Fractal North XL and oh boy what an upgrade in thermals, for real, without really more noise, even less so because things just don't get as hot due to better airflow. RE: "silent" cases, my 660Q was one with damped walls etc but it just ended up stowing too much heat with 300+W GPU and 140W CPU. Now and again you have to upgrade or just hang back.

    Sorry for the "stream of consciousness" type post, I'm tired :)
     
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    whm2074

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  • #79
    Nevarre said:
    Now my fear isn't needing to upgrade the components as aggressively, it's the fear that supply chains will dry up again. I have been caught waiting probably a generation too long here and there and got forced to buy a GPU during both mining crises. I have an RTX 4060 I could cannibalize from the kid's system if things go really pear shaped and my 3070ti dies and replacements are unaffordable. I didn't have to make that kind of calculation in the good old days. I would sometimes skip 2 GPU generations, but I think that's too risky now and with geopolitical issues around Taiwan, even holding off on a CPU upgrade that's not needed but nice to have isn't something I want to do anymore. Wages don't have to stagnate and you can set priorities on your purchases, but it's going to be almost impossible to deal with real shortages should things get ugly. You can't out-earn TSMC being shut down.
    Click to expand...
    I wonder what we will do when we no longer need to upgrade at all?
     
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    Lord Evermore

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  • #80
    whm2074 said:
    I wonder what we will do when we no longer need to upgrade at all?
    Click to expand...
    Keep upgrading anyway? But it will be complete system replacements, not parts. Everything will be merged into one component and it won't be possible to get enough RAM without also getting the largest and highest resolution screen. It will be like mobile phones, but with everything.
     
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