Australian politics - Perpetual Thread.

Lt_Storm

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Australia has HUGE installed rooftop solar, because all governments have supported it.

Telling a large percentage of voters to (effectively) chuck away their privately installed solar panels will not go down well.
It wouldn't impress me, even if we put ours in about 15 years ago. Still working fine, thank you LNP. (Though by the time nuclear power is making any impact they will be close to 40 years old)
Sure, but at some point, the solar production will exceed the demand and the grid will be unable to accept the excess power. Of course, people can deal with that by buying home batteries, but, overall, it is still a potential problem with too many rooftop solar panels.
 

SpocksBeer

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That's pretty much the crux, and puzzle, of the argument for nuclear though. The Liberal party, long the bastions of free market and small government ideology, are very much in favour of individuals choosing to buy solar systems for their home. Indeed, between now and whenever a future nuclear plant becomes operational many millions more will be installed on homes and businesses.

South Australia is already seeing problems with too much home solar generation. They are export limited, so can't send it to other states efficiently (but building a new interconnect as we speak), and are at the front of the curve when it comes to inverter level control of individual solar installs by necessity. This is the catch 22 of new nuclear. There is already a demand for creative solutions like load control, community batteries or "other" that will solve the problems around "too much" solar well before a nuclear plant can come online.
 
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VirtualWolf

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Sure, but at some point, the solar production will exceed the demand and the grid will be unable to accept the excess power. Of course, people can deal with that by buying home batteries, but, overall, it is still a potential problem with too many rooftop solar panels.
That's nearly already the case in the middle of the day, but the solution is not a binary choice between "Stop solar and roll out nuclear", it's a multi-pronged effort involving batteries, better interconnects to other states, demand response, incentives to use your own power during the day (this will be pretty huge with the shift to EVs happening), and so forth.
 

Bardon

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Definitely a good choice:


And on the opposite side of things, the nuclear lobby says they're going to have to switch off rooftop solar in order for fixed base-load nuclear to be on the grid.


🤦🏻‍♀️

Not that this wasn't obvious, but they've actually been forced to say it out loud.
The true irony was seeing Barnaby Joyce's comments on Kean, calling him out for "Disloyalty".

This from a man who abandoned his wife & kids to move in with one of his staffers after he got her pregnant.

Really? Not the person we're going to listen to lecture anyone about disloyalty!
 
The roof top solar already installed, isn't going anywhere. And more is going to happen. Regardless of what the LNP do. By the time Nuclear plants up up and running, the wholesale price point of day time electricity is going to be just about zero. So nuclear plants have to sell their electricity at that point. Which makes them even less profitable than they already would be.

Nuclear is a fantastic supply solution, except for it's problems, which are many and significant. It's dead in the water in Australia. Dutton is just fucking with everyone.
 

Klockwerk

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LNP are possibly guessing that the people who have rooftop solar that would be affected (city/suburban based homes) either
  • Aren't going to vote LNP anyway
  • Are going to vote LNP and have batteries (so wouldn't be affected much)
  • Are going to vote LNP, don't have batteries but feel that other issues are more important
  • Are going to vote LNP, don't have batteries and don't realise that selling excess power will be affected
  • NUCLEAR GOOD
It's also possible that a few/some/most of the LNP MPs do realise how bad this is but don't see a better alternative than toeing the line. What are they going do do - whoever replaces Dutton will get a fractured coalition, have to deal with Barnaby et al and pretend that stabbing a leader in the back is a perfectly cromulent thing to do 6 to 9 months before an election.

There's also the option that they think this is winnable even if the policy is pants-on-head stupid - look at how well they've done before with other questionable major policies.
 
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VirtualWolf

Ars Legatus Legionis
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The true irony was seeing Barnaby Joyce's comments on Kean, calling him out for "Disloyalty".

This from a man who abandoned his wife & kids to move in with one of his staffers after he got her pregnant.

Really? Not the person we're going to listen to lecture anyone about disloyalty!

But you don't understand! Barnaby's standards don't apply to Barnaby. He is after all, by his own admission, no saint...
 
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Cognac

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LNP are possibly guessing that the people who have rooftop solar that would be affected (city/suburban based homes) either
  • Aren't going to vote LNP anyway
  • Are going to vote LNP and have batteries (so wouldn't be affected much)
  • Are going to vote LNP, don't have batteries but feel that other issues are more important
  • Are going to vote LNP, don't have batteries and don't realise that selling excess power will be affected
  • NUCLEAR GOOD
I think you are correct in your analysis. The LNP isn't pitching this at people who are actually trying to save money on their power bills and reach net zero emissions. He's pitching at...well, I don't know who he's pitching it at exactly.

As stupid as this policy is though, it's not really going to affect LNP voters. As an anecdote, my father is a very technically gifted human being and understands more about the benefits of solar and battery technology than most. Knows all of these things. Knows that it will negatively affect his ability to use his own power. And yet still thinks that everything that comes out of the LNP is gospel that must be followed. It's bewildering to see in action.
 
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Dutton is pitching "a solution" to "a problem". The fact it won't solve the problem isn't relevant. It's "A solution". The LNP faithful can run with it.

Especially, now they know it will only cost $8 billion.
And renewables will be $1 trillion.
Because Dutton told them so.

Of course that $8 billion is per plant (so, erm ... $56 billion). And considering Australia can't dig a hole (see Melb metro, West gate tunnel or Snowy 2.0. Other state residents feel free to chime in with your own state project failures) on time or on budget). We can fairly safely double the time and quadruple the budget.

The LNP Nuclear (I don't want to call it a plan, it isn't, it's a fuck em over concept) is just to fuck with renewables a bit longer.
 

SpocksBeer

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And considering Australia can't dig a hole (see Melb metro, West gate tunnel or Snowy 2.0. Other state residents feel free to chime in with your own state project failures) on time or on budget).

Dad? I dug another hole!

It's filling with water