The yet another mass shooting thread

herko · Wednesday at 7:40 PM

Shavano said:
2) The financial cost of moving is proportional to how much stuff you have. The seriously poor can move for the cost of gasoline or a bus ticket.

The seriously poor also need cash for rent and to find a new place, and a new job. Those don't materialize out of nowhere. Having no savings is still a significant barrier.

Sure, if you only have a knapsack and live in the streets you can move for the cost of a bus ticket. Otherwise you need money. Maybe not $25k, but not nothing either. Most people don't have cash to cover a $1k emergency, and I doubt anyone that owns a bed or a desk, and rents a place, can move for less than that.

herko · Wednesday at 8:07 PM

Also PS: if you're living in the streets not by choice you probably don't have bus fare to a safe place where you can sleep indoors for free, either.

Shavano · Wednesday at 8:10 PM

herko said:
Also PS: if you're living in the streets not by choice you probably don't have bus fare to a safe place where you can sleep indoors for free, either.

Bus fare costs less than a gun.

herko · Wednesday at 8:21 PM

Shavano said:
Bus fare costs less than a gun.

Abstract 'bus fare', perhaps. What I was trying to say is that you need somewhere to go. And if you're down to homelessness, not by choice, you probably don't have a place to go that'll welcome you for free.

Once you get there, you need either shelter and food, or money to get them... just as in the previous place.

I don't LIKE guns, but what I'm trying to say here is that 'just pick up and move' is a gross oversimplification. Even if your life is in danger. You have to have somewhere to go. "Anywhere but here" requires money, or someone who will provide the required roof and food and other necessities for free.

karolus · Wednesday at 9:07 PM

Shavano said:
Stabbings are what people talk about when there's not a lot of shootings. Can you give us some examples of a first world country where mass stabbings are as common as mass shootings in the US?

Mass stabbings take much higher level of effort than a mass shooting—and as discussed upthread are more easily stopped. Outside of combat or major periods of civil unrest, it probably would be hard to find another nation seemingly at peace with levels of violence comparable to the US.

emaren · Thursday at 12:04 AM

karolus said:
To further underscore this sentiment—in Europe, where there is much more stringent gun control, stabbings are more prevalent. Sure, a dedicated individual can wreak quite some damage, but the fallout from such an attack pales in relation to a shooting indecent. It's also much easier—and less risky to subdue a knife wielder than a gun wielder.

I am not sure that ‘more prevalent’ is a reality.

Old article but deeply relevant comparing London to NY

there were 285 knife murders in England and Wales in 2017/18 — the highest number since the Second World War — and 34 in Scotland, giving a combined British rate of 0.48 per 100,000. In the US, the number for 2017 was 1,591, giving an almost identical rate of 0.49. So even amid a spike in British knife crime, Americans as a whole are at least as likely as to die from a stabbing.

And London vs NY

More recent police data is available for both cities, including a direct comparison for the calendar year 2018. The official estimated population of New York was 8,398,748 at July 1, 2018, and 9,006,352 for London.

The NYPD murder total for the year was 295 — less than half the figure for 2001 and a fraction of 2,200 victims counted in 1990 — giving a rate of 3.5 per 100,000. In London, there were 136, giving a rate of 1.5, so New York remains twice as deadly despite a successful decades-long crime crackdown.

Within this, there were 76 homicides attributed to cutting or stabbing in New York — the exact same number as in London, according to data from Murdermap. But New York’s rate is slightly higher, at 0.9 compared to 0.8 in London. It means the Big Apple is still deadlier for knife attacks, but the pattern of recent years suggests that could be reversed very soon.

In a nutshell, NY and London are comparable for knife crime, but the addition of guns makes NY wildly more dangerous than London.

It’s almost like there is an underlying rate that will occur when the population has knives, then a secondary add on when they are armed with guns. I’m sure that if you added grenades to the mix the the knife and gun rate would stay the same and the grenade rate would stabilise.

Zod · Thursday at 7:11 PM

karolus said:
To further underscore this sentiment—in Europe, where there is much more stringent gun control, stabbings are more prevalent. Sure, a dedicated individual can wreak quite some damage, but the fallout from such an attack pales in relation to a shooting indecent. It's also much easier—and less risky to subdue a knife wielder than a gun wielder.

Actually, stabbing deaths are more common in the US than in the UK.

Kevin Lantz · 2024-06-30T09:41:44-0400

Zod said:
Actually, stabbing deaths are more common in the US than in the UK.

It checks out!

We looked at murder rates from both weapons over a five-year period.

There were 34 firearm homicides in the US per million of population in 2016, compared with 0.48 shooting-related murders in the UK.

Knife murders are also higher stateside: there were 4.96 homicides “due to knives or cutting instruments” in the US for every million of population in 2016.

In Britain there were 3.26 homicides involving a sharp instrument per million people in the year from April 2016 to March 2017.

Shavano · 2024-06-30T10:19:34-0400

June 28, 2024
Niagara Falls, NY -- four teens playing dice shot up by assholes in cars. No fatalities.
Corpus Christi, TX -- 3 injured, 2 killed in shooting incident. Police aren't saying much about circumstances.
Crete, NE -- 7 injured, 1 killed (self inflicted). Some asshole started shooting at partiers at a house across the street

Just another Friday in America.

Shavano · 2024-06-30T10:23:57-0400

and in a strange story out of Texas, consequences are coming for some of the cops who failed the students in Uvalde 2 years ago.

Former Uvalde schools police chief indicted for role in Robb Elementary shooting response

Pete Arredondo, the former chief, and former officer Adrian Gonzales face felony charges of abandoning or endangering a child.

www.texastribune.org

They're being charged with abandoning and endangering a child.

A grand jury handed down indictments. It will be contentious. I think it unlikely they'll be convicted.

fractl · 2024-06-30T10:43:41-0400

Is Abbott going to pardon them the way he did the guy that killed the BLM protestor?

Wheels Of Confusion · 2024-06-30T11:00:56-0400

fractl said:
Is Abbott going to pardon them the way he did the guy that killed the BLM protestor?

No, because they weren't being good guys with guns.

The yet another mass shooting thread

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