Keep in mind OpenAI reportedly just past 2b in revenue on top of what they get from profits of Microsoft, Salesforce (and now probably Apple)
AAPL en fuego
- Thread starter ruddy
- Start date
So, they've matched the Santa Monica and Grand Central Apple Stores combined in revenue.
Apple isn't paying OpenAI. OpenAI is paying Apple. That's very clear from the statements so far, even if they aren't saying it directly. OpenAI made it very clear that this is a customer acquisition strategy, which they hope to sell subscriptions to a quarter billion new iPhone customers, and kick back a share of that to Apple. I don't think it'll work, I'm not sure Apple thinks it'll work, but OpenAI does.
Agreed. I think Apple is just milking them for free compute here. $2 billion in revenue against what kind of burn rate? Anyone want to take bets on how long OpenAI stays independent before they run out of money and Microsoft completely subsumes them? I give it 12-18 months.
OrangeCream
Ars Legatus Legionis
So? I’m not trying to say that OpenAI isn’t making money. After all Netscape Navigator Gold used to be a paid product too. Now browsers and html editors are free.
What I’m trying to say is that chatbots aren’t products people will, in the long run, pay for. It might be something they can license to businesses and be deployed in lieu of a live operator, or as a form of self help ala a help desk or knowledge base navigator.
It will be integrated into other products as a feature, or be given as a free service. Just like web search is a free service or html editors are embedded into forum software.
Right, but that's a far cry from OpenAI can't monetize their tech. At this point, they generated over 20 billion from it.
It’s pretty clear that there’s little to no moat in LLMs. The state of the art is moving forward, but what you can do yourself with an open source model as a starting point and open source data to feed it is moving forward faster. In other words free is rapidly catching up to paid.
Open AI is - smartly - trying to move further and further towards difficult to replicate multi-modal modals with architectural complexity that’s harder to replace, but really it feels like what they’re selling is AWS hours moreso than a specific difficult technical value add.
This reminds me of the Steve Jobs Dropbox story. "That's not a product, that's a feature."
Dropbox is still a company, sure. But it really is just a feature now. If you weren't locked into using it before its functionality became a feature, chances are you're not using it. No new company starts up and starts using Dropbox.
Dropbox is still a company, sure. But it really is just a feature now. If you weren't locked into using it before its functionality became a feature, chances are you're not using it. No new company starts up and starts using Dropbox.
Yeah, these things can be products in the enterprise space where there you have different expectations for where data is stored, and where the problem space you are trying to fix are narrow enough that you can throw real money at it, but that doesn't translate to the consumer space.
This is also why apart from generalized enterprise needs like MDM, Apple doesn't engage with enterprise because the money is in being willing to address parochial needs, and Apple doesn't do that.
I'm sure ChatGPT will earn real dollars off the back of real estate agents who tire of writing MLS listings, but I don't see a consumer market for them. And the problem is that ChatGPT turns almost every other market into spam, which inevitably gets a response to that spam. Maybe you have this mutually assured destruction of ChatGPT spamming resumes to employers and employers responding with AI countermeasures to read and sort those resumes, but like with every other market that falls to spam, the value of everything in that market falls to zero which makes it hard to then generate revenue off of it. At some point Zillow sees an opportunity to bypass the the MLS spam and monetize a non-spam alternative, cutting OpenAI out entirely.
MS couldn't get Bing as default search on iPhone but hey at least they'll get to be default backup LLM! Gotta be worth billions...somehow!
Whoa! </neo>
I had no idea the sales were even at that OOM. Do you have any publicly available sources? I'm not doubting you, because this article from 2011 estimates >$400M from Grand Central and $350M from 5th Ave, but I'd love to have some recent citable sources.
Closed at new all-time high closing price.
During trading it hit a higher price and yesterday, it hit 219 plus, which is the all-time high, before dropping back.
During trading it hit a higher price and yesterday, it hit 219 plus, which is the all-time high, before dropping back.
Well the forums have a top sticky thing used for the front page news discussions, just checked and it's on every page of a discussion. Guessing embedded code wouldn't work (for good reason of course), but maybe an image? Then have something to scrape closing price and do some text to image thing outputting to the same file/location every day.
(Probably some simpler ways and I'm just overthinking it but whatever
)
Not really AAPL related, but certainly "business" related, and this thread has always been a good catch-all for those sorts of topics:
Apple Discontinuing Apple Pay Later
Apple's Goldman Sachs-administered BNPL service is being cancelled less than a year after it debuted. Setting aside the broader, sticky arguments about whether Apple should ever have gotten involved in the manipulative business of Pay-Later consumer loans to begin with, oh to be a fly on the wall for what's going on behind the scenes between Apple and Goldman Sachs.
Apple Discontinuing Apple Pay Later
Apple's Goldman Sachs-administered BNPL service is being cancelled less than a year after it debuted. Setting aside the broader, sticky arguments about whether Apple should ever have gotten involved in the manipulative business of Pay-Later consumer loans to begin with, oh to be a fly on the wall for what's going on behind the scenes between Apple and Goldman Sachs.
The news seems to focus on Apple wanting to get away from GS. However I imagine if it was truly a great service it would be relatively straightforward to roll into another bank. Like when Costco switched from AmEx to Visa/Citi. You just keep the old accounts going until everyone gets new cards and then slowly sunset the old accounts. Being that Apple Pay Later is entirely an online deal it should be even easier even having the new bank just automatically assume the old debt.
Anyway, my point is I see a lot of impending doom with the whole BNPL world in general. Perhaps Apple sees the writing on the wall and wants out before it gets ugly. Not being happy with Goldman Sacs being the fig leaf as to why they're discreetly making their way to the exits. BNPL still exists, just not with Apple's name on it. That's a good clue to me that they just don't want to be associated with the service in general.
Anyway, my point is I see a lot of impending doom with the whole BNPL world in general. Perhaps Apple sees the writing on the wall and wants out before it gets ugly. Not being happy with Goldman Sacs being the fig leaf as to why they're discreetly making their way to the exits. BNPL still exists, just not with Apple's name on it. That's a good clue to me that they just don't want to be associated with the service in general.
I think it has more to do with Apple making a deal with Affirm and a little with GS trying to offload Apple on sone other sucker,
OrangeCream
Ars Legatus Legionis
I think the problem with Apple Card/GS is that it has nothing going for it outside of the Apple ecosystem. I have it set up for Apple services and use it at the Apple Store, but for everything else, the rewards and (complete lack of) perks just aren’t worth it. If you absolutely can’t be bothered with reward/cash back cards, then it’s… fine for no annual fee (and instant Apple Pay Cash is convenient), but I have to imagine that a GS isn’t seeing nearly the amount of transaction fees they expected.
(Even with Apple Store purchases, it’s kind of iffy, since the Amex Gold card offers purchase protection and extended warranties.)
(Even with Apple Store purchases, it’s kind of iffy, since the Amex Gold card offers purchase protection and extended warranties.)
OrangeCream
Ars Legatus Legionis
I don’t really understand your point. On its own merits it’s just a rewards card. If you’re maximizing rewards it’s clearly only worth it in narrow circumstances, but the vast majority of Americans aren’t going to be maximizing rewards. I think the problem is the target demographic. GS can’t have expected, or maybe shouldn’t have expected, this to be a super lucrative product. It’s just a credit card and the target demographic is promised a card that’s easy to manage and with zero fees. In other words it’s designed not to make GS any money!