Streaming is just bad for character development. The seasons are less than half of broadcast TV, leaving little room for the minutia that fleshes out characters and relationships. And high stakes make it worse - who has time for movie night and shenanigans when you have 10 hours to save the entire galaxy? Disco fit a lot in there, but SNW has benefited from the more limited scale.
STAR TREK: The Perpetual Thread
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Streaming is just bad for character development. The seasons are less than half of broadcast TV, leaving little room for the minutia that fleshes out characters and relationships. And high stakes make it worse - who has time for movie night and shenanigans when you have 10 hours to save the entire galaxy? Disco fit a lot in there, but SNW has benefited from the more limited scale.
In case you were unaware, Connor Trinneer and Dominic Keating from Enterprise had a YT/podcast show called Shuttlepod Show. At the end of their second season they both left the show for "hollywood reasons". But now they are back with a new show called The D-Con Chamber.
redshirtsalwaysdie.com
Oh and in case you were unaware, they are not the only Star Trek alumni to have a YT/podcast show called The 7th Rule.
So you know, if you can't get enough of ST, there is more out there for you.
Connor Trinneer and Dominic Keating talk the future of The Shuttlepod Show
The Shuttlepod Show debuted two years ago with Star Trek: Enterprise stars Connor Trinneer and Dominic Keating at the helm . The podcast introdruced actors and
redshirtsalwaysdie.com
Oh and in case you were unaware, they are not the only Star Trek alumni to have a YT/podcast show called The 7th Rule.
So you know, if you can't get enough of ST, there is more out there for you.
STAR TREK: PRODIGY Season 2 Beams to Netflix on July 1
It's about time — STAR TREK: PRODIGY Season 2 beams down to Netflix on July 1
blog.trekcore.com
So at the end they leave Zora on Discovery to wait for some long, unspecified duration. And there she is, brain the size of a planet...
Finally!STAR TREK: PRODIGY Season 2 Beams to Netflix on July 1
It's about time — STAR TREK: PRODIGY Season 2 beams down to Netflix on July 1
Even broadcast is 10-13 episode seasons these days unless its one of their big, and low-cost, procedural shows that bring in the 60+ year-olds who haven't given up appointment TV (though even my parents rarely watch anything day-and-date but they're still in the demo for CBS and NBC procedurals they just watch them with On Demand).
Yeah, but there's still some articulated difference between broadcast and streaming in terms of narrative structure. Streaming for the most part seems to rely way more on super serialization to support binge viewing. Short season broadcast seems a little more episodic still.
Can modern TV writers handle more than 10-13 episodes a season?
I remember several TNG writers talking about how tough it was putting out 26 episode seasons, you do inevitably wind up with a dud here and there because the creative well is simply dry. The episode with Geordi’s mother dying was an example.
The murder/court/crime shows are so formulaic, a lot of that stuff writes itself. Sci-Fi has to be fresh and different every episode.
I remember several TNG writers talking about how tough it was putting out 26 episode seasons, you do inevitably wind up with a dud here and there because the creative well is simply dry. The episode with Geordi’s mother dying was an example.
The murder/court/crime shows are so formulaic, a lot of that stuff writes itself. Sci-Fi has to be fresh and different every episode.
'Star Trek: Discovery' is over. Now Alex Kurtzman readies for 'Starfleet Academy' and 'Section 31'
Alex Kurtzman, who oversees the current 'Star Trek' franchise, discusses the series finale of 'Discovery' and what to expect from 'Starfleet Academy' and 'Section 31.'
Inside the ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Series Finale: The Last-Minute Coda, the Surprise Easter Eggs, and What Season 6 Would Have Been About (EXCLUSIVE)
'Star Trek: Discovery' star Sonequa Martin-Green and executive producer Michelle Paradise discuss shooting the finale and epilogue, the
variety.com
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Writers can absolutely do it if they're regularly employed instead of the "gig writers' room" stuff going on now. The bigger issue going beyond 10-13 episodes a season probably comes from the rest of production. More episodes = more cost, plus the major difference in the streaming paradigm is the type of actors they can now land in a series. We tend to forget that in the old days, most actors worked only on shows or movies because the scheduling/availability. Crossover between shows and movies was not common and generally most show actors wanted to "move up" as opposed to big movie actors "descending down". And that's not even getting into action and effects budgets.
Rewatched the Short Trek episode "Calypso". At one point, Taco Tuesday is explained, complete with a sombrero and tacos. Craft, the lone human in the episode, asks, 'What's a Tuesday?".
Yeah, we just watched a DS9 episode where Odo tells Bashir that he can't make a holosuite program "on Saturday". Like...how would a shapeshifter raised by Bajorans under Cardassian rule know WTF a Saturday was? Why would the station use Earth day references when they operate on 26-hour Bajoran days?
I gotta think there'd be a steep decline in quality if they tried to stretch something like Discovery or Strange New Worlds into 20+ episodes per season. Those shows are pretty intricately plotted, the effects and sets are extravagant, and the performances are sharp. Every one of those things takes a lot of time, effort, and money. Not to mention the extraordinary effort involved in putting together something like the musical episode of SNW.
Given the choice, going forward I'd much rather have 10-13 episodes at the level of Disco or SNW than 26 episodes closer in quality to Voyager, Enterprise, or even TNG or DS9.
Given the choice, going forward I'd much rather have 10-13 episodes at the level of Disco or SNW than 26 episodes closer in quality to Voyager, Enterprise, or even TNG or DS9.
Shorter seasons are no guarantors of quality. One can look at various Disney shows to find 6-10 episodes of mediocrity. Hell, even GoT at its peak often used the first and last episodes of the ten episode season as mere "checkup" vehicles, with most of the actual plot stuff squeezed into episodes 2-9...and that show's peak seasons were derived entirely from a popular novel.
Longer seasons allow room for more exploration and a chance for existing cast and crew to try new things. On TNG and DS9, it seemed like everyone took a shot at directing.
Well, yeah, there are a zillion variables that affect the quality of a show. All other things being equal, I'd expect shows to generally benefit from having their finite resources spread among fewer episodes than more, and that expectation is consistent with what I've seen when comparing shows from the streaming era (with usually fewer episodes) to older shows (with usually more episodes).
I honestly don't think so. Disney's definitely fucking this one up with Marvel and Star Wars having what should be treated for all accounts and purposes as mini-series. For every Andor (which was considered an anomaly for its 12 episodes), we get duds like Book of Boba Fett and yawns like Falcon and The Winter Soldier. But the shorter seasons are also leading to far more irregular production schedules, which is one of the major WGA complaints about the "gig writers room" and why certain streaming shows feel like drastically different productions between seasons.
What blows my mind is that we have much fewer number of episodes per season, but instead of a yearly season you are lucky to see a follow-up season within 2 years. Some are pushing 3 to 4 years between seasons!
I think that part of the gap between seasons since 2020 can be explained by pandemic interruptions and by last years writers and actors strikes.
I'll forgive Star Trek here since all its recent series were affected by one or both, but this is more commentary on streaming in aggregate. If I use Disco's S1 and S2 release dates without covid or strike delays, that's 16 months between season starts (24SEP2017 against 17JAN2019), we'd end up with S3 in May 2020, S4 in Sep 2021, and S5 in in Jan 2023. This presumes no production-specific delays.
Not sure I'd use ANY of Disco's season breaks as a guide. They had tremendous turnover on the production staff all the way to when they did the in-show reboot S3. That takes us to the pandemic and then the writers strike. It was just a bad-luck show from start to finish.
Discovery is going to be the Star Trek rough equivalent to the prequels trilogy of Star Wars. Something that was incredibly flawed but looked upon with a softer lens a 15-20 years later.
As for longer seasons, it’s not going to happen. Streaming services, particularly CBS/Paramount, have been getting increasingly cost conscious. Longer seasons mean larger costs with no guarantee of acceptable return. If they did go with a longer season, you can expect a much, much cheaper looking show with fewer, cheaper actors, writers and directors. Most audiences, especially post Discovery and Strange New Worlds, are not going to go for that. I mean, would you go back to early TNG (or if I want to be really facetious, TOS) production quality in exchange for a 20-24 episode season?
As for longer seasons, it’s not going to happen. Streaming services, particularly CBS/Paramount, have been getting increasingly cost conscious. Longer seasons mean larger costs with no guarantee of acceptable return. If they did go with a longer season, you can expect a much, much cheaper looking show with fewer, cheaper actors, writers and directors. Most audiences, especially post Discovery and Strange New Worlds, are not going to go for that. I mean, would you go back to early TNG (or if I want to be really facetious, TOS) production quality in exchange for a 20-24 episode season?
Yeah, but they're also jacking the production cost per episode up to the point these seasons are costing more than big budget blockbusters. I know cost is the biggest series killer these days. I'm a fan of The Expanse enough to know that Syfy eventually cancelled the show at its best because it was called The Expense behind closed doors.
I'd support 12-18 episode seasons with a dial down of major action/cgi fests to open up space for quieter character episodes. Not sure why we have to insist on 8-10 and 20-24 episodes being the only option.
Bring back the generic worlds with red sky and potted plant jungles!
If anything, set design is more about having a good vision and execution than budget. TNG had a bargain basement budget and yet the ship sets look really good even today. Voyager too even with 30 year old style and production budgets. Yet Enterprise had an even bigger set budget and rode on a wave of Trek optimism after TNG, DS9 and VOY. They went with the same 90s/2000s metallic/platinum hues as Voyager but it all looks like poo on HD, especially season 4 with the bridge fitted with an absurd amount of blinky lights. The problem was by Enterprise that same visionary production staff was pretty tapped out and, frankly, lazy while up against a major shift in the way TV was being produced (cough, BSG, cough).
FX have obviously gotten far better with bang for bucks. Might not be a bad thing at all if the show was once again restricted on what they could do visually and focus on stories. As for low-budget TV actors I don't think you're giving them enough credit. After all, Trek was built with unknown/B-list TV actors.
I kinda thought of that after posting. But I think we’re in 50-50, territory for “hits” and “misses” in Trek. And the arguably biggest “hit”, TNG, took awhile to find it’s feet.
For all its flaws, I really loved Discovery, and I think it will be remembered fondly. As much as I love SNW and Picard, they’re very conservative nostalgia fests (conservative in the sense of playing it safe, not necessarily politically). Discovery was really willing to take risks and push what Star Trek could be, from season long story arcs to having the lead be a Black woman named Michael, to moving the show a thousand years in the future. Some things worked better than others, but I’ll always admire the sheer adventerousness of Discovery.
At the same time, it’s the most Star Trek-y of the new shows in its relentless optimism over the last three years. Focusing on rebuilding the Federation via diplomacy and positive example, constantly (to a fault) talking about and showing the value of human connection, and resolving a season-long arc by understanding and making friends with the aliens who were blowing up Federation planets really show humanity at its best.
Did it take a couple of seasons to find its feet, occasionally go overboard with shmaltz, and too-quickly rehabilitate Space Hitler? Sure. But every Trek series has had lots of flaws; it’s not Shakespeare. And overall, for me at least, the good of Discovery far outweighed its flaws.
Yeah, I completely agree with this. And responding to @iPilot05‘s post, I just got finished watching Voyager all the way through, and it had some really chintzy production, to say nothing of early TNG. I would never ever want to go back to that, even if we get twice as many episodes. And the acting in the modern shows is similarly much stronger than we saw in 90s Trek. The leads are at least as good, and the supporting casts just act so much less wooden and far more human than their 90s counterparts. Part of it is the caliber of the actors, but I’ll bet that another significant part is just having more time to prepare, rehearse, reshoot, and edit than was possible in the days of 20-27(!) episodes per season.
They got freakin’ Paul Giamatti to be the recurring villain on the Starfleet Academy show! If casting is anything to go by, this show could be a ton of fun!
Wonder what a recurring villain in Starfleet Academy would even look like? A grumpy hard-nosed professor?
He'll be the guy who trained all the evil admirals
Somebody’s overbearing dad, an uptight dean, an evil shapeshifter professor, a lecherous drunk faculty member, someone possessed by the Conspiracy bugs….the possibilities are endless!
I'm imagining the dean from "Animal House" but in a Starfleet uniform.
Mirror universe Boothby.
Because that dead horse hasn't been beaten enough.
