Nintendo Switch

Ryan B.

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Some specs of the Switch 2 seems to have leaked:
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeaksAndRumours/comments/1cnfop9/famiboards_investigating_customs_and_shipment/


(The Famiboards thread is too messy IMO, so I'll just post second hand information instead)


The level of obsession on display there is bananas, but I'm here for it. Inferring system specs by tracking public shipping data? Genius. And obsessive...

I do think people are buying in to a rosy picture of the Super Nintendo Switch (I don't recall which Ars commenter coined that, but I love it so I'm gonna use it) that may well be too good to be true. I guess that is a well worn tradition for pre-announcement console hardware speculation, but I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment.

I'd love to be proven wrong, of course.
 
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japtor

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I saw the original post reposted elsewhere, the thoroughness is insane. And according to that reddit thread apparently they've been watching for stuff for months. Bravo to those crazy bastards.

I feel like the general consensus for a while has been kinda equivalent to what the Switch was relative to its contemporaries. Like roughly last gen power but newer feature set enabling some modern/current software portability.
 
The level of obsession on display there is bananas, but I'm here for it. Inferring system specs by tracking public shipping data? Genius. And obsessive...

I do think people are buying in to a rosy picture of the Super Nintendo Switch (I don't recall which Ars commenter coined that, but I love it so I'm gonna use it) that may well be too good to be true. I guess that is a well worn tradition for pre-announcement console hardware speculation, but I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment.

I'd love to be proven wrong, of course.

On an unrelated note. I don't think it'll be called Super Nintendo Switch.

Because Super Nintendo Switch => Nintendo's Super Switch => Nintendo SS => Hurr hurr!

But on the other hand we got the Wii, so who knows?
 
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Ryan B.

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Unfortunately based on pretty much every Nintendo console after the Super Nintendo, it's going to have a much dumber name than any of the ones people theorize about. I still can't keep all the DS/3DS models straight in my head, it's like a comedy show skit on terrible naming.

I dunno, I think "Switch" is a great name. As long as they don't try to top "Wii U" for stupidity, we should be good to go.
 

sword_9mm

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Unfortunately based on pretty much every Nintendo console after the Super Nintendo, it's going to have a much dumber name than any of the ones people theorize about. I still can't keep all the DS/3DS models straight in my head, it's like a comedy show skit on terrible naming.

Well they could be Microsoft I guess. But yeah; Nintendo isn't very good at naming either.
 

Chris FOM

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They’re actually not bad. The NES, SNES, N64, Gameboy [Color/Advance], and Switch were all phenomenal names. The DS and Wii were both excellent too. Where the wheels come off is with the DS variations making the 3DS look like yet another variation and then the Wii U doing the same but even worse (and if the DS variants were bad the 3DS ones were worse, New Nintendo 2DS XL anyone?). But historically the hits outweigh the misses, we just remember the misses more because they were fairly recent and so, so, so incredibly bad.
 

swiftdraw

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The only ones I thought were dumb were the Wii U, particularly since it wasn’t in anyway related to the Wii. Also the sub-designs of the handhelds that some confusing nomenclature and what games worked with what. The DS/3DS series was particularly bad.

Being the boring person I am, I like the idea of just the systems being NES (model year.)
 
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sword_9mm

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They’re actually not bad. The NES, SNES, N64, Gameboy [Color/Advance], and Switch were all phenomenal names. The DS and Wii were both excellent too. Where the wheels come off is with the DS variations making the 3DS look like yet another variation and then the Wii U doing the same but even worse (and if the DS variants were bad the 3DS ones were worse, New Nintendo 2DS XL anyone?). But historically the hits outweigh the misses, we just remember the misses more because they were fairly recent and so, so, so incredibly bad.

Yeah I agree enough with that.

I'm in the boat with switfdraw.

I'm actually surprised Apple/Samsung haven't done this with their phones. I guess they figure first to 'name 100' wins or something.
 

gregatron5

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I think they don't do that because then they're really stuck with a yearly cadence. Plus, with iPads, they went almost two years between updates. Phones are pretty clockwork now, but will they be always? Also, then you get "Is it early 2024 or late 2024?" "I bought my iPhone 2024 in 2027. How old is my phone in 2028? is it 4 years old or 1 year old?" Those kinds of things just… fade in light of absolute names and numbers. Not completely, but it's less of an issue, IMO.

Also, with the case of Nintendo: who in 2024, or even 2020, would buy a "Nintendo Switch 2017"? The next switch comes out in March of 2025, ostensibly. I could foresee problems as soon as the year ticks to 2026 with people buying a "Nintendo Switch 2025" in any year that's later than 2025. They get a year, tops, of good sales with that naming scheme, and if it comes out in the third (calendar) quarter or later, precious little time in the same year as the product name.

By contrast, something like Xbox Series X 1 Pro Extreme. Who the fuck knows when it was released? It's the latest and greatest now, so buy it. PS5 Max Slim? Same deal. Nintendo Switch? There's only one, buy it. Date of origin becomes irrelevant unless you really care, which the vast majority of mass consumers probably don't.
 

Ulf

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3DS was 3DS because it was basically ... a 3D DS (It played DS games even if technically it's a new system). 2DS is a 3DS without the 3D (which was a gimmick). "New 2DS" is an upgraded version. "3DS XL" is a bigger version. At the time, it kind of made sense.

Nintendo isn't likely to retry a "Wii U" equivalent like "Switch U"/"Switch S" and I suspect they're not going to try something like "Switch Advance" or "Switch Pro" either.

Given past history, my guess is "New Nintendo Switch". This assumes it's backwards compatible. If not...
 
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Chris FOM

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Yeah I agree enough with that.

I'm in the boat with switfdraw.

I'm actually surprised Apple/Samsung haven't done this with their phones. I guess they figure first to 'name 100' wins or something.
Samsung started doing that with the Galaxy S line when they skipped from the S10 to the S20 (don’t know about their other models). The model number is simply the last two digits of the year.
 

sword_9mm

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Samsung started doing that with the Galaxy S line when they skipped from the S10 to the S20 (don’t know about their other models). The model number is simply the last two digits of the year.

Interesting.

I haven't owned a Galaxy since the first so I don't keep up with that.

I think they don't do that because then they're really stuck with a yearly cadence. Plus, with iPads, they went almost two years between updates. Phones are pretty clockwork now, but will they be always? Also, then you get "Is it early 2024 or late 2024?" "I bought my iPhone 2024 in 2027. How old is my phone in 2028? is it 4 years old or 1 year old?" Those kinds of things just… fade in light of absolute names and numbers. Not completely, but it's less of an issue, IMO.

Also, with the case of Nintendo: who in 2024, or even 2020, would buy a "Nintendo Switch 2017"? The next switch comes out in March of 2025, ostensibly. I could foresee problems as soon as the year ticks to 2026 with people buying a "Nintendo Switch 2025" in any year that's later than 2025. They get a year, tops, of good sales with that naming scheme, and if it comes out in the third (calendar) quarter or later, precious little time in the same year as the product name.

By contrast, something like Xbox Series X 1 Pro Extreme. Who the fuck knows when it was released? It's the latest and greatest now, so buy it. PS5 Max Slim? Same deal. Nintendo Switch? There's only one, buy it. Date of origin becomes irrelevant unless you really care, which the vast majority of mass consumers probably don't.

For the phones; I'd expect that the cadence would just be 1 a year. Or do they make 2 a year?

example: phone #2020 released in Feb, would they release a new one in Dec? Have they done that?

iPad I get as that's a 'side' offer for Apple. I'm just speaking to their main line product. N/Sony/MS don't really have side consoles (I don't consider handhelds back in the day 'side consoles' nor the XBSS). So say Sony releases a PS5 in 2020, a PS6 in 2026 (or whatever). So I'm just talking the 'main line' here and imo Apple's 'main line' is the phone.
 

japtor

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There's too many words below about naming products. So for some gaming content, I've been hearing Animal Well is pretty great! Haven't picked it up yet but looking forward to it eventually. Basically haven't gamed much at all outside of Tetr.io on my computer. Saw that Tetris TGM2 came out a while back so that's on my short list too. Hopefully TGM3 will get a port one day.
They’re actually not bad. The NES, SNES, N64, Gameboy [Color/Advance], and Switch were all phenomenal names. The DS and Wii were both excellent too. Where the wheels come off is with the DS variations making the 3DS look like yet another variation and then the Wii U doing the same but even worse (and if the DS variants were bad the 3DS ones were worse, New Nintendo 2DS XL anyone?). But historically the hits outweigh the misses, we just remember the misses more because they were fairly recent and so, so, so incredibly bad.
Yeah it's kinda recency bias, course "recent" in console lifecycles means you could be going back well over a decade for some examples. DSi was 2008! Feels like naming for everything from then up until the Switch was rough, so about 9 years of bad names. Maybe GBA SP was a precursor to the janky use of random letters, who knows. XLs made sense at least, arguably 3DS even. That seemed like an of issue of pricing and games at launch as much as branding confusion.

For Switch, going back to Super or Advance would make sense, but could totally see them choosing to leave those names in the past. One wildcard I've seen mentioned would be Ultra, a double reference as a callback to the N64's roots along with 4K/UHD hardware output capability (even if scaled, whatever).

The recent rumor mill has popped up with Muji, Ounce or OZ. The last one makes me think Nintendo Switch Z*. It's like a 2, but it's not! It's not just the next Nintendo Switch, it's the last! (Until the Nintendo Switch ∀)

*...cmon F-Zero ZX!
For the phones; I'd expect that the cadence would just be 1 a year. Or do they make 2 a year?

example: phone #2020 released in Feb, would they release a new one in Dec? Have they done that?

iPad I get as that's a 'side' offer for Apple. I'm just speaking to their main line product. N/Sony/MS don't really have side consoles (I don't consider handhelds back in the day 'side consoles' nor the XBSS). So say Sony releases a PS5 in 2020, a PS6 in 2026 (or whatever). So I'm just talking the 'main line' here and imo Apple's 'main line' is the phone.
iPhones are relative clockwork annual releases, used to be around summer time but shifted to fall releases a while back. They started numbering at 4...then kinda didn't with alternating nS and n releases, then went from 7 to 8 and X ("ten") simultaneously. Then some X-letter models (XS, XR) before just settling on plain numbers again at 11 and continuing on to today.

I don't see them tying to year for the reasons gregatron mentioned, it ties them to a specific time, which can be particularly bad for Apple cause they can be selling stuff for years (and of course even worse for Nintendo with their cycles). Arguably their current naming isn't great for that either, but it is at least only relative to the other numbered iPhones where they sell two generations back (15 to 13), and the latest one remains "new" even if it was released in the previous calendar year.

...then there's the SE, which comes out whenever it comes out, with the only specific identifiers being generation and year somewhere if you look for it. Pretty much like everything else Apple makes besides the iPhone and Watch, the numbering really only started with the iPhone 4. There was the "iPad 2" then "The new iPad"* then "iPad with Retina display" and just..."iPad" since then with "(nth generation)" hidden somewhere. The older computers were similar but with release window as the hidden specific identifier, like iBook G3 (Late 2001).

With the semi irregular release timing I can understand them still obfuscating the date and numbering for everything else, like "iPad mini" sounds a lot better than "iPad mini 2021" in 2024. Even "iPhone 13 mini" still obfuscates the release date and sounds better than if it were named 2021 as well. Why yes I have those two exact products and want upgrades, and don't remind me about my Nintendo Switch 2017 😭. Makes things simpler but basically sucks marketing wise for long term products.

*The New iPad predated New Nintendo 3DS by a few years! Everyone is bad!
 

Asral

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I hope they keep it simple and just go with Switch 2, it is straightforward and just makes sense.

It's probably a bit more likely that they'll add a new word, like they did with GBA. Switch Advance would be nice for nostalgia, but I think it's more likely to be some word that hasn't been used yet.

I kinda wish they'd just name em by release date.

Switch 2025.
Switch 2032
Switch 2039
etc.
Would you refer to the entire generation by the original versions release year?

If yes, then you've got situations like a "Switch 2017 - OLED model" released in 2021.
If no, then you've got two different models released in 2019 (Lite and the refresh with longer battery life) and both of those are on sale at the same time as Switch 2021.

Either way you end up with consoles that will quickly sound very old, as others have said.

They’re actually not bad. The NES, SNES, N64, Gameboy [Color/Advance], and Switch were all phenomenal names. The DS and Wii were both excellent too. Where the wheels come off is with the DS variations making the 3DS look like yet another variation and then the Wii U doing the same but even worse (and if the DS variants were bad the 3DS ones were worse, New Nintendo 2DS XL anyone?). But historically the hits outweigh the misses, we just remember the misses more because they were fairly recent and so, so, so incredibly bad.
You skipped Gamecube, and I would argue it belongs in the phenomenal list. Simple, straightforward, and memorable. Top tier naming.

I think N64 is a mediocre name at best. It is taking a meaningless technical spec detail as it's entire identity, and having just a number as the name makes it a boring non-name.

The DS line was pretty simple and clear: DS, DS Lite, DSi, DSi XL. It's only the DSi part that is an awkward name for a mid-gen upgrade.
3DS also started out ok, but it was a bit too close to DS and the introduction of 2DS models made things awkward.
But the biggest sin of the DS (and by extension 3DS) is that it killed off the Gameboy name.

Given past history, my guess is "New Nintendo Switch". This assumes it's backwards compatible. If not...
I don't think they'll go with "New Nintendo Switch".

It would heavily imply that it's just a new version of the current Switch instead of a new generation, and they already used "New" relatively recently with 3DS. "New Whatever" is also just plain bad naming in general.
 

wco81

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Some of the rumors say they will revert to LCD instead of OLED and then maybe release an OLED edition later, like they did with the original Switch.

Performance-wise, maybe not even PS4-level even in docked mode.

I wonder if Nvidia will put their A-team on the Switch 2 SOC. They got bigger fish to fry at the moment since their stock price isn't being driven by sales of chips for handheld gaming devices.
 

Chris FOM

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The PS4-level power comparisons are in raw computational output but ignores architectural changes which make a huge difference (think of how the Xbox Series S can frequently outdo the XB1X despite the latter having a GPU that’s more powerful on paper). The PS4 was still using GCN graphics while the Switch is moving to an RTX 3000-series GPU with some 4000-series features backported. That will result in a device that will demolish the PS4 in actual real world performance no matter what the straight numbers say. The simplest example is The Matrix Awakens (the Unreal Engine 5 tech demo) which by numerous reports runs quite well on the Switch 2 at an upscale 4K. No matter how many corners you cut and features you turned down the PS4 could never have run it at all.
 

japtor

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I wonder if Nvidia will put their A-team on the Switch 2 SOC. They got bigger fish to fry at the moment since their stock price isn't being driven by sales of chips for handheld gaming devices.
Well the Orin SoC family has been in the works for years at this point. It was out on Nvidia's public roadmap back in 2018, detailed/revealed in 2019, and I think publicly available dev kits were out in 2022 (along with the big Nvidia leak that included some Nintendo related stuff). The main target was embedded automotive AI applications, which seemed like one of the next big things...till OpenAI/ChatGPT came around and blew up the future.
 

MiguelMC

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I don't think a direct comparison with the PS4 is fair, even if it seems frustrating that the switch replacement might be less powerful. It seems all but certain that the new console will be a dual handheld/docked one too. And even with the architectural advances, there's only so much heat you can dissipate in a hand-held, and you still want a reasonable battery life.

Of course, physics then somewhat shield Nintendo from direct TFLOPs comparisons... but if they fall too far behind 3rd party works might suffer.
 
Some of the rumors say they will revert to LCD instead of OLED and then maybe release an OLED edition later, like they did with the original Switch.

Performance-wise, maybe not even PS4-level even in docked mode.

I wonder if Nvidia will put their A-team on the Switch 2 SOC. They got bigger fish to fry at the moment since their stock price isn't being driven by sales of chips for handheld gaming devices.

Why would they use an OLED? It drives up their BOM when it's the most sensitive, and they can't do an easy double dip later on.

And are we talking about the PS4 pro (4.2TFLOP) or OG(1.84TFLOP)? Famiboards seems to lean towards 4TFLOP docked for the Switch 2, take that as you will.
 

japtor

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Playing Animal Well in handheld mode is breathing new life into my Switch. I'm wondering if you all have any suggestions for other good games to play in handheld mode that aren't thumb breakers.
Baba is You! I guess any non competitive/speed based puzzle games in general, like any number of Picross or Picross like games on there. One annoying thing is if you get used to one game's control scheme and particular mechanics, not all games necessarily work the exact same way.

VVVVVV is a great platformer, I don't remember it being too hard on the thumbs, for the most part at least. I played through it on 3DS, might've double dipped in Switch I forget. Captain Toad is a puzzle...non platformer? It's fun.

And any number of turn based games, whether RPG or like strategy/tactics games? Fire Emblem and Advance Wars are the big Nintendo ones, and always heard good things about the Mario and Rabbids games. Into the Breach is supposed to be very very good.
 

japtor

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Dave the Diver is good. I played on my PC, but it's pixel art enough that a Switch can probably run it fine.
Trying to look up impressions, performance seems...okish. There's a demo with long load times but that appears to be based on an older version. Framerate looks 30 from videos, and can supposedly chug a bit on bigger/boss stuff or something, but generally people seem fine with it. Crashes seem to be a thing too but doesn't seem to happen too often, but experiences vary there.

Side note while looking all that up, there's free DLC for the game, including a Godzilla one that just came out, but that one will only be available till November. I just downloaded it even if I don't have the game yet, it'll be a reminder to check it out down the line for me.
 

MiguelMC

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I got "Ori and the Will of the Wisps" in the current sale, for £9.99, having been extremely happy with Ori and the Blind Forest. I've got 1 wisp left (the heart of the forest?) and my experience so far has been really nice.

Things to notice:
  • The game begins a lot faster than Or 1, by giving you a couple of abilities straight off the bat
  • It's a lot more focused in combat. As in, it's no longer just mashing the button for sein to auto-kill. There are even, gasp, big bad bosses....
  • ... and the maps are bought from a wanderer... (Ori 1 had you find a stone to slot in a monument elsewhere)
  • ...and some skills need to be equipped in slots, called "shards". Clearly this game came out after Hollow Knight. Mind you, it's still Ori, but different.
  • The saving system, on the other hand, is now a lot more lenient. If in Ori 1 you'd use up an energy point to save, that's ditched completely, and now it's all automatic. Can imagine how much more stressful the caves could become on the old system.
  • It's all, somehow, even more gorgeous that Ori1. And the soundtrack goes well
  • Performance is, in general, very good. However... after leaving the game open for a while, the game might freeze in a position for a second or so in fast moving actions. I suspect there's a memory leak that's not been fixed. I've also had a couple of crashes. Neither were a thing in the first part.
Overall, 100% recommended if you're a fan of either platformers or metroidvanias. Plus big thanks to Ryan B. for suggesting both games.
 

Chris FOM

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Nintendo direct at 10 AM Eastern time/9 Pacific tomorrow. No idea what’s coming. There are lots of potential things that could happen (including a small group of Wii U games that never got Switch releases, like Xenoblade X and the Zelda WW/TP remasters), but the only announced Nintendo game that doesn’t have a scheduled release date that I’m aware of is Metroid Prime 4. If we don’t see this one tomorrow I expect it’ll be a cross-gen release.
 

Jonathon

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Only thing that's really on my wishlist right now are the Wind Waker and Twilight Princess remasters-- I own both on Wii U, so don't strictly need them, but it would be nice to not have them locked onto that hardware.

I wouldn't mind some kind of 2024 Pokemon release-- there's no new mainline game on the schedule (and shouldn't be, yet) and Legends: Z-A isn't coming until 2025, but a smaller-scale release like a Black/White port might be nice (and would be something Game Freak could outsource like the Diamond/Pearl remake). But that probably wouldn't be announced at a Nintendo event; Pokemon usually holds their own events.
 

Colm

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Put me down on the list of people hoping for an out-of-nowhere announcement of a 2D Zelda game. They could just do a new one (which would be amazing), or I'd be cool with another remake similar to Link's Awakening (2019). Just sayin', I'd absolutely love a remake of A Link Between Worlds....
I'd buy that.
 
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