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Diabolical

Diabolical

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  • #8,481
    I have completed 4 worlds of Super Mario Wonder, and I have stopped trying to get all the seeds and complete all of the levels. Now I'm just playing enough to open up areas and beat each world en route to Bowser.

    The gimmicks are neat. The game is over all pretty fun. But I'm not fond of the physics and momentum implementation, and it's not my favorite platformer. Not really even close. Granted, I feel that way about most Mario games - which is a bummer for Kaizo community related reasons, but that's for another thread.

    Ah well. I'll wrap it up in the next few days, then on to the next thing.
     
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    Chris FOM

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  • #8,482
    Curious, what are your favorite platformers? I’m not disputing your preferences, just surprised since for me a huge part of why I hold Mario games in such high regard are because I find those exact elements to be just about perfect. Conversely, the reason I could never get into even the good Sonic games are because the physics and momentum never quite clicked with me.
     
    Diabolical

    Diabolical

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  • #8,483
    Chris FOM said:
    Curious, what are your favorite platformers?
    Click to expand...
    Of recent memory?
    Celeste (well, yeah!), The Kings Bird (debatable about it being really a platformer).. some others. I'd have to go pull up my list.

    Regardless, this:
    Chris FOM said:
    Conversely, the reason I could never get into even the good Sonic games are because the physics and momentum never quite clicked with me.
    Click to expand...
    Is me with 2d Mario. And yet, I still try. Ya never know - this might be the game to change my mind!
    It wasn't. But it could have been!
     
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    MTSkibum

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  • #8,484
    Diabolical said:
    Of recent memory?
    Celeste (well, yeah!), The Kings Bird (debatable about it being really a platformer).. some others. I'd have to go pull up my list.

    Regardless, this:

    Is me with 2d Mario. And yet, I still try. Ya never know - this might be the game to change my mind!
    It wasn't. But it could have been!
    Click to expand...

    A favorite platformer list without ultimate chicken horse?

    By far my favorite, although you need a group that has a very similar skill level.
     
    Sulphur

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  • #8,485
    I agree with Diabolical about Mario's gameplay, the speed and momentum are generally what throw me off of Mario games. If I were to describe it in comparison to other platformers, Mario feels heavier to control and slower to respond. A less charitable version of this description would be 'a bit stodgy'.

    On the other hand, Sonic doesn't quite sink his quills into me either, because while the sheer speed is enthralling, the accompanying lack of control and labyrinthine level design is not. A happy medium for me is the likes of Ori - fast, responsive, feels like a pleasure to play (until it kills you by throwing you into spikes, then does it again, and again, and...).

    Having said all of that, Wonder is one of the best 2D Marios I've played, and it's consistently scooped large dollops of joy on top of every session I've had with it. Good on Ninty for still being one of the most creative forces in the industry.
     
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    Diabolical

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  • #8,486
    Sulphur said:
    I agree with Diabolical about Mario's gameplay, the speed and momentum are generally what throw me off of Mario games. If I were to describe it in comparison to other platformers, Mario feels heavier to control and slower to respond. A less charitable version of this description would be 'a bit stodgy'.

    On the other hand, Sonic doesn't quite sink his quills into me either, because while the sheer speed is enthralling, the accompanying lack of control and labyrinthine level design is not. A happy medium for me is the likes of Ori - fast, responsive, feels like a pleasure to play (until it kills you by throwing you into spikes, then does it again, and again, and...).

    Having said all of that, Wonder is one of the best 2D Marios I've played, and it's consistently scooped large dollops of joy on top of every session I've had with it. Good on Ninty for still being one of the most creative forces in the industry.
    Click to expand...
    ++ to all of that.

    I just finished it, didn’t come anywhere close to 100%’ing it, but I’m done. I got to the end of World 3 and realized that I’m playing it just to beat it now, and pressed forward as quickly as I could.

    I’ll send it off to my little brother, let him and his girlfriend have a go at it. It was delightful, but I feel no compulsion to return to it.
     
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    japtor

    japtor

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  • #8,487
    Haven't played enough Wonder to get a good grasp of the feel, but for other Marios they're personally consistently good, but can also vary quite a bit. I guess this might've changed since the "New" era games (I forget if those are all similar feel), but the 2D ones were pretty different...including the All Stars compilation/remake release which butchered the physics iirc (made them all like Mario 3 or World?). Could say the same for the 3D Marios all being pretty different, but still all feeling good, once you got used to each one at least.

    The observations about Sonic probably explain why I could really never get into those games though. So I guess Mario is kinda my Goldilocks amount of momentum being just right, while Sonic was just too much. I think it's part of why I could never get into Super Meat Boy too. I'm also fine on the lower (or different?) end of the spectrum too though, as I loved Celeste and VVVVVV.
     
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    MiguelMC

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  • #8,488
    I grew up with a Megadrive (EU) and all three Sonics. I loved them, especially 2 & 3, but something never clicked. I'd say the character screaming run run run never really meshed with the levels begging to be explored. Maybe I was too OCD, and not skilled enough, to just blast it.

    I never played SM World, on the other hand. Maybe this is a sign that I should get at least one month of NSO, back up my saves, then play SM3/SMW and see what the fuzz was all about.

    Rayman Legends was amazing, though, and probably the best £7 I spent on a Switch game.
     
    Ryan B.

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  • #8,489
    MiguelMC said:
    I grew up with a Megadrive (EU) and all three Sonics. I loved them, especially 2 & 3, but something never clicked. I'd say the character screaming run run run never really meshed with the levels begging to be explored. Maybe I was too OCD, and not skilled enough, to just blast it.

    I never played SM World, on the other hand. Maybe this is a sign that I should get at least one month of NSO, back up my saves, then play SM3/SMW and see what the fuzz was all about.

    Rayman Legends was amazing, though, and probably the best £7 I spent on a Switch game.
    Click to expand...

    I also grew up with a Genesis, and loved Sonic 2. So I got Sonic Mania on Switch, which is as close to new old Sonic as you can get, and I haven’t played it much. I wanted to love it but I don’t. Like you said, the speed is at odds with the levels that beg to be explored.

    When I was a kid and Sonic 2 was my only game for quite a while, I loved that aspect of the games because they increased replayability. Sonic 2 had no save system, so every time you turned on the console, you started over. You could pick a different route, explore a different nook or cranny, or choose to blast through at top speed, knowing that all that stuff you missed would still be there next time you played.

    I got to the point with Sonic 2 where I could beat the whole game, start to finish, and even though Sonic 3 did everything better on paper, in my heart there isn’t a better Sonic game than 2.

    Mario, though…for me, if Mario games have a flaw, it’s the timer that pushes you to speed through levels when all I ever want to do is take my time and explore. I much prefer the Mario games that lack a timer. The movement, though, is usually close to perfect for me.
     
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    Jonathon

    Jonathon

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  • #8,490
    I grew up with the SNES and SMW and it was probably my favorite Mario 2D platformer prior to Wonder (with Yoshi's Island taking a very close second)-- its main flaw relative to other Mario games being the ease with which a significant number of levels can be cheesed with the cape. The level design is strong (assuming you see them), controls and physics are nice and tight, and the graphics are bright and colorful and nice to look at (and hold up pretty well considering it was a launch-day SNES game). I think Mario Wonder's taken that crown for me now, though-- there's so much variety and so much in the way of interesting mechanics on offer.

    But neither one is quite enough to be my favorite platformer, which is still Celeste-- which feels like it modernizes the genre in a way that the Mario series can't or won't. Frequent checkpoints, no time limits, and no real penalty for failure make Celeste way more accessible while also providing way more challenge than anything a Mario game can offer in the main course of the game. Some Special World (or equivalent) content in the Mario series gets close, but Mario's penalties for failure (bumping you back all the way to the beginning of the level or halfway at best, and eventually declaring your game "over" with various consequences) make learning your way through those difficult challenges less fun.
     
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    MiguelMC

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  • #8,491
    In a different vein, I'm planning my next switch purchase. I'm looking for something that's nicely ambiented, with a bit of "bite", and that is pleasant to backseat-game for my wife. Some examples that worked nicely are: BotW & TotK, Tunic, Hollow Knight***, Subnautica and Outer Wilds. Bioshock is a no-no, and I am banned from playing 2 & Infinite unless entirely alone. Couch co-op is nice but not a must (because my kids don't like the same games I do...). Civ VI is weird in that I'm either totally hooked, or entirely disinterested.

    Things that interest me are Metroid Prime Remastered, and both Ori titles. I enjoyed the Metroid Dread demo, but it feels quite oppresive in atmosphere, and nowhere near the chilling experience of, say, the City of Tears. I could also try a puzzle-adventure (we beat Talos Principle on a laptop a while back)

    Any recommendations on that line?

    *** except the tough bits in HK, like Mantis Lord, the white palace, Grimm, and the true ending; because I am more stubborn than I am talented and my wife loses interest at me hitting my head against a wall.
     
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    Chris FOM

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  • #8,492
    Metroid Prime is fantastic. If it came out today as a brand new game it would still clear a 90 on Metacritic and be a GotT contender.

    I haven’t played HK but I know its reputation. Ori is shorter but probably just as hard, although more focused on platforming than combat.

    One that’s worth considering, especially for the back seat drivers, is Mario x Rabbids. Lots of opportunities for your wife to tell you what move to make and give a well-deserved “I told you so!” when you ignore her and blow the level.
     
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    technophile

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  • #8,493
    FWIW, Bioshock Infinite is a lot less horror-y/jump-scare-y than either Bioshock 1 or 2, if that's what bothers her. (At least until you get to the DLCs where you go back to Rapture.)

    I don't know if you like RPGs, but there are a number of meaty ones that are fun to back seat drive - Larian's Divinity: Original Sin 1 and 2 are both on Switch. Lots of conversations and decisions to debate over, puzzles and quests, etc. BG3 isn't on Switch or I'd suggest that one.
     
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    Gandhim3

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  • #8,497
    Witcher 3 is in the Switch as well.

    i would also recommend Mario Oddessey for the back seat drivers - who to use Cappy on to take over, how to get to that hard to reach areas, whereto look for the next hidden item or costume, etc.

    the Yoshi and a Kirby platformers are quite good as well. Maybe try the Pikmins series? Luigi’s Mansion is fun romp
     
    thrillgore

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  • #8,502
    Jonathon said:
    Is Stardew Valley something the two of you might get into? It has split-screen co-op (up to two players on Switch) if you both want to play.
    Click to expand...
    Stardew Valley is the game I have the most hours on, back when I had a Switch (before Nintendo's anti-consumer and anti-OSS conduct) and its not even a comparison with PC. Like, over 350 hours easily. It was just so nice to have it to unwind from a busy day. I think its great just for that alone.
     
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    Ryan B.

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  • #8,503
    MiguelMC said:
    In a different vein, I'm planning my next switch purchase. I'm looking for something that's nicely ambiented, with a bit of "bite", and that is pleasant to backseat-game for my wife. Some examples that worked nicely are: BotW & TotK, Tunic, Hollow Knight***, Subnautica and Outer Wilds. Bioshock is a no-no, and I am banned from playing 2 & Infinite unless entirely alone. Couch co-op is nice but not a must (because my kids don't like the same games I do...). Civ VI is weird in that I'm either totally hooked, or entirely disinterested.

    Things that interest me are Metroid Prime Remastered, and both Ori titles. I enjoyed the Metroid Dread demo, but it feels quite oppresive in atmosphere, and nowhere near the chilling experience of, say, the City of Tears. I could also try a puzzle-adventure (we beat Talos Principle on a laptop a while back)

    Any recommendations on that line?

    *** except the tough bits in HK, like Mantis Lord, the white palace, Grimm, and the true ending; because I am more stubborn than I am talented and my wife loses interest at me hitting my head against a wall.
    Click to expand...

    The Ori titles are fantastic. I'm a huge fan and strongly recommend them. (Can give reasons why if you need more than that.) Also, have you played Celeste? If not, it sounds like something you would enjoy based on your list.

    Have you tried "Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes"?

    Could look at the Shantae series, those are fun. (Well, I've played two of them: Pirates Curse and Half-Genie Hero).
     
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    MiguelMC

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  • #8,504
    Ryan B. said:
    Have you tried "Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes"?
    Click to expand...
    XD Pretty much every day IRL! I'm quite talkative, a trait I've inherited from my maternal grandmother (diluted apparently). Will have to check that!

    EDIT: Aaaand both Oris went on sale in Europe after the Indie showcase! I've just got Ori & the blind forest for slightly over a pint of beer, plus the Touryst, which really intrigued me ages ago.

    EDIT2: I lied. After saying "I bought", about 5 hours ago, I headed off to the eshop... but their account system seems down. I can see my wishlist but I cannot purchase anything, or download any demo. Maybe it'll be better tomorrow
     
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    MiguelMC

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  • #8,505
    Finished both Touryst & Ori and the blind forest.

    Touryst was OK, with nice aesthetics and some interesting ideas, but felt more of a concept game than a fully fledged game. Found the puzzles a bit on the simple side, too. I'm not sure it's worth £15 given the competition.

    On the other hand, I thoroughly enjoyed Ori, from the graphics and animations to the music, and some very nicely designed sections. I played the game very conservatively, until I found out that the save system was pretty much the opposite of Hollow Knight. Pretty much embraced death therafter! The escape sequences felt Great, and I can imagine how awesome these are by being only a touch more skilled than me. My wife also found the design very appealing, and the mechanics interesting.

    One particular thing I enjoyed about Ori was the "in crescendo" difficulty of each skill section. Together with the relative forgiveness of the "bash" sweetspot, the designers made me feel like a platforming hero. Will not talk about the ~550 deaths it took me to finish the game though...
     
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    themantis

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  • #8,511
    This no-frills tweet is similar to the March 2015 public confirmation of NX (the codename for what became Switch) which as I recall was also a no-frills tweet to say that the successor to Wii U was in development. Of course, the context in 2015 was radically different: Wii U had been a total sales failure, and Nintendo felt the need to respond to investors demanding a complete end to Nintendo's hardware business. Confirming NX was a way to quiet those critics. The full reveal of Switch came in October 2016, interrupting the last holiday season for Wii U (which was already a bust because all software development had moved to Switch).

    This time, in 2024, Switch still has some gas left in the tank. It's useless to predict Nintendo, but this no-frills tweet tips their hand a bit. In June, we'll see the collection of nostalgia-fueled remakes that they're pushing for one last holiday season on the ol' NX. I would speculate that we don't see any official announcements about Switch 2 until January 2025. That way, they can milk every last sale out of Switch 1. Note that Nintendo's fiscal year goes until March 31, 2025, so "this fiscal year" means the announcment about Switch 2 can arrive as late as March 2025.

    I like Kit and Krysta's prediction for Nintendo's moves here: a Donkey Kong nostalgia fest leading the holiday 2024 lineup for Switch, then an early January Switch 2 announcment with a new 3D Mario title as the headliner. Switch 2 launches in March 2025, to bump their financial results at the end of their fiscal year.
     
    Ryan B.

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  • #8,512
    themantis said:
    This no-frills tweet is similar to the March 2015 public confirmation of NX (the codename for what became Switch) which as I recall was also a no-frills tweet to say that the successor to Wii U was in development. Of course, the context in 2015 was radically different: Wii U had been a total sales failure, and Nintendo felt the need to respond to investors demanding a complete end to Nintendo's hardware business. Confirming NX was a way to quiet those critics. The full reveal of Switch came in October 2016, interrupting the last holiday season for Wii U (which was already a bust because all software development had moved to Switch).

    This time, in 2024, Switch still has some gas left in the tank. It's useless to predict Nintendo, but this no-frills tweet tips their hand a bit. In June, we'll see the collection of nostalgia-fueled remakes that they're pushing for one last holiday season on the ol' NX. I would speculate that we don't see any official announcements about Switch 2 until January 2025. That way, they can milk every last sale out of Switch 1. Note that Nintendo's fiscal year goes until March 31, 2025, so "this fiscal year" means the announcment about Switch 2 can arrive as late as March 2025.

    I like Kit and Krysta's prediction for Nintendo's moves here: a Donkey Kong nostalgia fest leading the holiday 2024 lineup for Switch, then an early January Switch 2 announcment with a new 3D Mario title as the headliner. Switch 2 launches in March 2025, to bump their financial results at the end of their fiscal year.
    Click to expand...

    I agree it makes no sense for Nintendo to announce Switch 2 at any time before the holiday season. As to why they would pre-announce the announcement? Well, it's been a long dang time since the Switch was released. This looks to me to be an olive branch extended to placate their core fans that are feeling the Switch's age.

    With the way they seemingly delayed the system not for hardware but for game library reasons, my hope is that they are taking this year to manufacture a big stockpile of consoles and supply will be plentiful at launch.

    Hey, a guy can dream...
     
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    Colm

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  • #8,513
    Ryan B. said:
    I agree it makes no sense for Nintendo to announce Switch 2 at any time before the holiday season. As to why they would pre-announce the announcement? Well, it's been a long dang time since the Switch was released. This looks to me to be an olive branch extended to placate their core fans that are feeling the Switch's age.

    With the way they seemingly delayed the system not for hardware but for game library reasons, my hope is that they are taking this year to manufacture a big stockpile of consoles and supply will be plentiful at launch.

    Hey, a guy can dream...
    Click to expand...
    2027 before you can get one without doing crimes.

    Completely unrelated note, what poisons would the people in this thread say they're most susceptible to. Just wondering.
     
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    Asral

    Asral

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  • #8,515
    Ryan B. said:
    I agree it makes no sense for Nintendo to announce Switch 2 at any time before the holiday season. As to why they would pre-announce the announcement? Well, it's been a long dang time since the Switch was released. This looks to me to be an olive branch extended to placate their core fans that are feeling the Switch's age.
    Click to expand...
    I think it's more about placating the investors than the fans, that's why they announced at the same time as their quarterly earnings release.

    Chris FOM said:
    That also makes this holiday season the last chance to ship Metroid Prime 4 as a Switch exclusive. Any later and it’s either cross-gen or it miss the system entirely.
    Click to expand...
    I've had a pet theory for quite a while that Metroid Prime 4 is going to be this generation's Twilight princess or Breath of the wild: Delayed by so much that it will be a cross-gen release during the launch of the next console.
     
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