Apple and Gaming

cateye

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It’s a good thing that Apple hasn’t gone out of their way to repeatedly antagonize the maker of the biggest, most important game engine in the entire industry.

What Epic is achieving with Unreal Engine 5 is just spectacular. I played through HellBlade 2 recently on my "lowly" Series X, and while the gameplay itself was controversial (I liked it a lot, but not everyone was happy with Ninja Theory's choices, especially given the drawn-out six year development process), the graphics were breathtaking. "Cinematic" doesn't even begin. On a $500 console.

Once you move outside of Apple's tiny gaming garden and see how fast the industry is moving and developing and building it's really refreshing. I'd love for Apple to be a part of that energy, but it's just never going to happen.
 

Chris FOM

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I’d have more empathy for Mr. Sweeny’s stated principles and his struggle against Apple’s rent-seeking if it weren’t so blindingly obvious that his real objective is to take Apple’s place and crown himself Middleman of the Metaverse.
I have little love for Epic, but the harsh reality is they’re the most important middleware company in all of gaming at a time that middleware is more important than it’s ever been. There are some signs we may be past peak Unreal (more and more big publishers are moving back to in-house engines), but for now if you want to make a push into gaming Unreal Engine support simply isn’t optional.
 

kenada

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I don’t think a mainline Civilization has ever skipped the Mac, dating all the way to the original. The bigger question in my mind is who’s handling the release? Aspyr has done the Mac releases starting with Civ IV and I would assume will continue to do so.
Aspyr hasn’t ported anything new to the Mac since they were acquired. I doubt they’ll be doing the Mac port of Civ VII.
 

gabemaroz

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The reality is that those games were all 32-bit so they've been de-facto dead on macOS for several years now. It is unfortunate - but not unexpected - that the solution wasn't to update them for 64-bit. Maybe they used some middleware that was un-licensable for macOS 64-bit, but I think it's more likely they just couldn't be bothered.

Possibly they also got mired in Apple's confused messaging about deprecated OpenGL and thought that Metal was a necessity (it's not). Either way, very unfortunate.
 
Much ado about nothing. Vr gaming has more usage on steam than the Mac. I suspect most Mac gamers moved off of steam a while ago
More likely, I think, is that they moved "off" macOS to Steam on Windows via a second box or via Crossover or whatever.
 

Hap

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More likely, I think, is that they moved "off" macOS to Steam on Windows via a second box or via Crossover or whatever.
I have a couple of Windows 11 systems. They are pretty much gaming only. Streaming to Mac works fine too for casually playing an RPG or slower RTS. Generally I will get up and move across the room though, the gaming peripherals are just nicer on the Windows system (I will not fly without my Virpil controls).

Having said that, I still will rebuy ported games, if nothing else to support porting houses, or show interest for the Mac version for those not as quite as fortunate as me to have the disposable income to have a separate gaming PC.
 

byrningman

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What Epic is achieving with Unreal Engine 5 is just spectacular. I played through HellBlade 2 recently on my "lowly" Series X, and while the gameplay itself was controversial (I liked it a lot, but not everyone was happy with Ninja Theory's choices, especially given the drawn-out six year development process), the graphics were breathtaking. "Cinematic" doesn't even begin. On a $500 console.

Once you move outside of Apple's tiny gaming garden and see how fast the industry is moving and developing and building it's really refreshing. I'd love for Apple to be a part of that energy, but it's just never going to happen.
The technology is great, but there's no performance magic solution. So far, those games that are pushing a new level of visual complexity, such as Alan Wake 2 or those using most/all of Unreal 5's tech, seem to have to settle for performance along the lines of 1080p at 30fps, on the current-gen consoles. Obviously the exact performance varies, but that seems to be roughly the ballpark for proper "next generation" graphics (which includes Unreal 5, depending on how many of its features are used).

I agree that it would be great, and interesting, to see something like that ported to Mac. Control coming to Mac is interesting, and perhaps will pave the way for Alan Wake 2.
 

Tobold

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The technology is great, but there's no performance magic solution. So far, those games that are pushing a new level of visual complexity, such as Alan Wake 2 or those using most/all of Unreal 5's tech, seem to have to settle for performance along the lines of 1080p at 30fps, on the current-gen consoles. Obviously the exact performance varies, but that seems to be roughly the ballpark for proper "next generation" graphics (which includes Unreal 5, depending on how many of its features are used).
Current consoles are 3+ years old and were midrange for their day. The engine has to be ready for the current highend and the next gen consoles when they come if they want to have games ready for them. It's not surprising that we're far outpacing what the hardware could do in 2020.

Apple has achieved remarkable energy efficiency but has done so by abandoning the high-end graphics space entirely. Their best laptop chip is a world class laptop chip and their best desktop is a world class laptop chip. It doesn't come close to what you can do with a RTX 4090.
 

byrningman

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Current consoles are 3+ years old and were midrange for their day. The engine has to be ready for the current highend and the next gen consoles when they come if they want to have games ready for them. It's not surprising that we're far outpacing what the hardware could do in 2020.

Apple has achieved remarkable energy efficiency but has done so by abandoning the high-end graphics space entirely. Their best laptop chip is a world class laptop chip and their best desktop is a world class laptop chip. It doesn't come close to what you can do with a RTX 4090.
Games are created, primarily, to run on current gen consoles. You cannot make money making a “AAA” game if it does not run satisfactorily on current gen consoles. That’s the performance target for Epic when they are rolling out new features of their middleware. If it only runs well on a 4090, it’s not relevant in the marketplace.
 

japtor

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Games are created, primarily, to run on current gen consoles. You cannot make money making a “AAA” game if it does not run satisfactorily on current gen consoles. That’s the performance target for Epic when they are rolling out new features of their middleware. If it only runs well on a 4090, it’s not relevant in the marketplace.
The target is pretty much anything from old to current to whatever foreseeable future, it's a nice big toolbox of stuff to play with. Epic can do everything they can to optimize things, but beyond that it's still on game devs to actually make proper use of it for their own uses. Ultimately they're the ones making all the choices and settling for lower resolution and framerates.
There's talk of a PS5 Pro while Xbox may have a handheld.

But sales have slowed down so maybe the performance profile baseline won't move that much.

Nintendo is expected to release a Switch successor in the next year but that may get them to parity at best in docked mode.
PS5 Pro sounds pretty crazy from some blurb I saw. Course the PS4 is a significant part of the mix iirc and still getting support. Next Switch seems like it'll essentially be a portable PS4 with a newer feature set (kinda like how Switch was relative to PS3/360). It'll be interesting to see if that + the remaining PS4 userbase (and XBSS and/or handheld) extends the crossgen timeline for a while more.
 

KD5MDK

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I don’t think a mainline Civilization has ever skipped the Mac, dating all the way to the original.
When I was in elementary/middle school I had Civilization on a Performa 400 and a kid down the street had it on a PC. The difference in graphics was so amazing he would come to my house when he wanted to play it sometimes rather than play the same game at home.

Then in HS I found a 486 laptop with a black & white screen someone had donated and put up with the PC version so I could play it in history class rather than listen to the football coach try to get some learning into the rest of the class. (He was fine. But I had no need to be there, at that level.)
 

Exordium01

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The target is pretty much anything from old to current to whatever foreseeable future, it's a nice big toolbox of stuff to play with. Epic can do everything they can to optimize things, but beyond that it's still on game devs to actually make proper use of it for their own uses. Ultimately they're the ones making all the choices and settling for lower resolution and framerates.

PS5 Pro sounds pretty crazy from some blurb I saw. Course the PS4 is a significant part of the mix iirc and still getting support. Next Switch seems like it'll essentially be a portable PS4 with a newer feature set (kinda like how Switch was relative to PS3/360). It'll be interesting to see if that + the remaining PS4 userbase (and XBSS and/or handheld) extends the crossgen timeline for a while more.
I wouldn’t believe anything You hear about the PS5 Pro before it is released. The current rumors are almost certainly from leaked marketing material and Sony was pretty dishonest about the capabilities of the PS5. Remember the 8K claims? Remember the claim that the storage architecture was anything special? Remember the hype about Spatial Audio?
 

cateye

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I was hesitant to post the original article since it relies on data that is not accessible or verifiable to make its points, but I'm noticing it's getting picked up elsewhere (like AppleInsider, etc.), so I figured it was at least worth discussing:

Those Assassin's Creed, Resident Evil and Death Stranding ports have bombed

Apple has showcased games including Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil 7, Death Stranding and Assassin’s Creed Mirage in its keynotes over the last 12 months, all running on high-end iPhones and iPads. But even using the most optimistic revenue estimates, they’re all commercial failures.

Appfigures estimates suggest Resident Evil 4 has been downloaded 357k times, with revenue estimated to be $208k. Based on the game’s $29.99 price tag this suggests that roughly 7,000 people have paid to unlock the full game in its six months on the market.

Resident Evil Village has fared even worse, with Appfigures estimating 370k downloads and just $92k in revenue, meaning the number of players who have actually paid $15.99 to unlock the full game is around 5,750.

Worth noting that both of these games were multi-million sellers on consoles. The stated numbers for Death Stranding aren't much better.

I thought this conclusion in particular was pretty sharp, suggesting Apple's AAA gaming ambitions more about iPhone marketing upsell than any actual interest in fostering the success of AAA gaming:

“Overall, the story with AAA titles coming to Apple devices makes more sense from a marketing perspective,” adds Appmagic’s Zubov. “The news about another project coming to mobile will get guaranteed publicity and perhaps will motivate a small number of people to buy the Pro version of the phone.”
 
The conclusion makes sense in a way. It’s amazing that an iPhone can play a current AAA console game,* but how many people actually want that? Playing anything with modern graphics on an iPhone feels like playing Genesis games on a Sega Nomad: “Wow it’s amazing that I can play a console game on this, but it burns through battery so fast that it needs to be plugged in, anyway.” And that’s before you get into how poor the experience can be trying to play something designed for a controller on a touch screen.

If Apple is doing it for the press, that kind of makes sense, since bringing in a handful of expensive AAA games doesn’t address the real problem with games on iOS, which is that almost no one outside of IAP meme game makers is bothering with iOS as a platform.**

It kind of seemed like Apple was going to try and address that with Arcade, but then they abandoned any pretensions of that in the last year or two and now they mostly just add IAP meme games without the IAP.

*With the caveat that I tried the free trial of AC and had about 5 crashes on my 15P. I’m sure they’ll fix those eventually, but that doesn’t exactly make people want to pony up $50.

**Feral and a handful of Steam devs being the exception.
 

CommanderJameson

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Honestly, it’s the games.

It’s FIFA. It’s COD. It’s NBA. It’s Madden. Forza. Gran Turismo. F1. These are the franchises with the colossal, pick-up-and-play appeal to reach many, many potential Apple-owning soon-to-be-gamers. No, they won’t do Xbox or Playstation numbers, or even PC numbers, but I’m pretty sure they’d get more than 5750 paid downloads for FIFA.

Apple fucked around with niche survival horror games and found out.
 
Some of those have been on iOS for a while...in mobile/IAP form that gives better ROI than full on ports. I'd give it decent odds any game will fall short of expectations unless they're priced low enough. Hell actual niche games (which RE is far from at this point) might have a better chance at tolerating higher prices, vs mainstream users conditioned to expect freemium games for well over a decade now.
 

Chris FOM

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Important caveat: I’m assuming the above are accurate. This isn’t necessarily because it appears the primary source is an Analytics company called Appfigures, and looking at their website they do a lot of modeling and extrapolation to get their numbers. The more of those you stack on top of each other the larger the error bars get, so take all of the following with the appropriate helping of salt.

All that said, woof. Even they’re wrong and the real numbers are a full order of magnitude higher, still woof. I sure hope Capcom, Ubisoft, and 505 Games got huge payouts from Apple to subsidize these ports, because those numbers are awful. Even as ports of preexisting games that simply added platforms these still had to be huge money losers. There’s no way they came even close to breaking even.

That said, I also can’t say I’m the least bit surprised. For starters, the addressable audience simply wasn’t very big. You’re limited to either an iPhone 15 Pro or an M1 or later iPad (so 2021 Pro or 2022 Air or later, with no base iPad or iPad mini able to run them). On top of that they made no effort to adapt to touchscreens (not that I’m convinced that was even realistically possible for games with such complex multi-input controls). It’s controller or bust. End result is even if you had phenomenal sell through to your potential audience the total numbers simply aren’t there.

On top of that, performance simply wasn’t there. I’ve followed the various Digital Foundry overviews of these (and summarized them here) and quite simply the A17 wasn’t up to the task. At their very best they qualified as barely playable, with uneven frame rates, dodgy frame pacing, very low resolutions depending on upscaling which only partially solved things, and at times horrible controller lag. The M-series systems fared considerably better, even the M1 (which surprised me, I’d have thought three generations of architectural advancements would cover up for two fewer CPU P-cores and three fewer GPU cores), and were a credible experience, although still with reduced fidelity compared to even the PS4 versions.

Finally, who wants to play these games on an iPhone? Resident Evil loses almost all its atmosphere on such a small screen and Baghdad’s vistas have no sense of grandeur. An iPad, especially one of the 13” models, fares better, but it’s still a decidedly lesser experience compared to a TV or even decent sized monitor. I’ve harped on game selection before, but it still remains true.

And of course I’ve ignored the economics of trying to sell premium priced games in the F2P cesspool that is the App Store, but that obviously had an enormous impact as well.

So yeah. Impressive tech demos as a show of capabilities, but as actual ways to play the games there’s little or nothing to recommend them. I do wonder what the actual expectations were for sales numbers though. I have little doubt this was still a clean limbo right under them, but it would be interesting to see what they thought they’d get.

But, even after all that, it’s really missing the most important question by far: how did the Mac versions do? For all the reasons above these were simply never going to sell well; that result was well and truly overdetermined. But except for RE Village, which hit the Mac first, and AC Mirage, which bafflingly was iOS/iPadOS only (an oversight they’re fixing with Shadows), these are all cross-buy with the Mac version. And it’s the Mac that has actual potential. I’ve said before that I still find it utterly bizarre how much of an orphan Mac gaming is given its customer base. As PC gaming in general sees a resurgence, consoles become specialized PCs (even including an APU approach very similar to Apple Silicon complete with unified memory), and multi platform releases based on middleware to maximize potential audience it still feels to me like the Mac should represent an untapped but potentially sizable audience. Despite the iOS ports crashing and burning, if the Mac releases sold even respectably then there remains at least some potential.
 
Honestly, it’s the games.

It’s FIFA. It’s COD. It’s NBA. It’s Madden. Forza. Gran Turismo. F1. These are the franchises with the colossal, pick-up-and-play appeal to reach many, many potential Apple-owning soon-to-be-gamers.

Case in point: there are two different COD games ranked 14 and 25 on the games top chart. As far as I can tell, RE: Village isn’t ranked (even on the genre charts) and AC: Mirage is #183 on the roleplaying chart.

top of that they made no effort to adapt to touchscreens (not that I’m convinced that was even realistically possible for games with such complex multi-input controls).

I’d say it’s possible. Hitman: Blood Money is a masterclass in this. It’s genuinely impressive how well Feral handled porting the controls.

And it’s the Mac that has actual potential. I’ve said before that I still find it utterly bizarre how much of an orphan Mac gaming is given its customer base.

Part of it has to be the Mac AppStore, too. I can’t imagine buying a game through the AppStore if it’s also available through Steam or GOG.
 

Mhorydyn

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Part of it has to be the Mac AppStore, too. I can’t imagine buying a game through the AppStore if it’s also available through Steam or GOG.
That's a big part of it for me. I really enjoy games like RE4, but by the time the games I care about show up on Apple's devices, they've already seen a few Steam sales and I've almost certainly bought them already. I'd consider paying a small fee to enable my existing games on Apple's stuff, but a separate non-transferrable version isn't going to cut it for me unless the price is quite low. Even then, many people are almost certainly better off just adding something like a Steam Deck to their arsenal of gadgets -- you can get a 64GB LCD one on sale for $373 CDN right now. Bumping an iPad Pro's storage from 256GB to 512GB is $280. When you're desensitized to the prices Apple typically charges, stuff like the Deck seems downright cheap in comparison. Plus, then the wide world of Steam sales and gaming opens up to you instead of whatever Apple has half-assed lately. I do remain hopeful that the game porting toolkit ends up being a Proton-ish solution for Apple devices, but it's not something I'd bet on given their track record.
 

byrningman

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The key thing is for Apple to stick with it, making its platforms more gaming friendly in a sustained way (obviously I’m not counting the existing kind of popular iOS games, but if I said “AAA gaming” I’d be excluding a lot of indie and AA type games that are important on PC). Hopefully companies like Capcom will make a more sustained effort too, and not just port one game and call it quits. I would think that porting the code for one of your games, for a lot of developers, means that the cost of subsequent ports is much reduced because of significant code reuse (“game engines” etc). If they’re porting to iPhone they also need to learn how to optimize the controls.

Of course Apple’s demonstrated commitment would be a key factor in getting game devs to commit. Personally, as others have said above, I’m more interested in Mac gaming than iOS gaming, though obviously the cross compatibility would be a motivating factor for many ports.

Regarding iOS, at least some people at Apple must be looking at the success of the Switch and be thinking that is a sizeable enough market to be worth their time. And the other console makers don’t seem to be in a position to roll out a handheld, at least for a few years. Of course Valve has noticed the same thing.

Edit: I don’t mean Apple needs a console, rather that the Switch is the kind of market that iPhones could move in on the same way they did cameras.
 

Bonusround

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On the one hand, yes. On the other, Steam still isn’t a Universal app.

Gabe Newell glances at you out of the corner of his eye, a brief and knowing acknowledgement, completed by a puckish curl at the corner of his mouth. He quickly returns his gaze to the distant shores of Europe and Japan.

A rumble of voice commences, diffuse and ever-present like the wind, yet low and forceful.

”Thiiiird-paaaaty aaaap stooooores...” it says.
 

Aleamapper

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Looks like the performance of the Riven remake is somewhat disappointing on M1 machines, with a Max pulling 30fps at 2560x1600 vs a 3080 getting 120fps at 3840x2160 with the same maxed settings. Pixel for pixel, that's something like an 8x difference in performance. I can understand it being half as good, maybe a bit worse, but 8x worse is insane. Is it just a bad port? Does the remake use ray tracing which isn't supported directly via hardware on the M1?