So the solution is what? Let CarPlay get locked out of all cars forever and Apple just shrugs?
Apple Should Buy Rivian To Save CarPlay
- Thread starter Vincent Hanna
- Start date
Perhaps the third choice is Apple works with manufacturers on in-car apps that tap CarPlay-like features but don’t take over the entire dash.
I.e. an Apple Music app or Maps that pulls data from the phone.
Let consumers vote with their wallets and not buy cars that don't have CarPlay if that's a feature they want? The majority of the car-driving public likely doesn't care what OS the car runs (they probably don't even know that their car has an OS to begin with), they just want to be able to hook up their iPhone so they can use Google Maps and play music.
Where are you getting this catastrophizing? Apple isn’t remotely on a trajectory to being locked out of all cars forever.
There’s also good reason to believe that at least some of the resistance to CarPlay on the part of automakers was related to Project Titan. With that closed down we’ll see how the next few years play out.
That said, what Apple is hearing from Rivian and GM etc. is that they want to own the relationship with their customers. They want their cars to feel like their cars, not a generic CarPlay target. There’s no reason that Apple can’t give them some of what they want. If Apple can let you tint the icons in iOS 18 to match your background, they could surely make CarPlay icons tint to match car brand colors. And they can give car makers other, more prominent brand placement within the CarPlay interface.
If Apple wants to have broad CarPlay availability they need to treat car manufacturers as partners. Buying a car company and competing with them seems like an odd way to try to get them on side…
Agreed, but Apple won't drop the 30% fee until there is government intervention. Perhaps then Rivian and others might play. Sadly, these auto mfgs need the subscription revenue
And even if they are, what point is there to buying a car company so that some portion of the car drivers can plug their iphone in? That doesn’t really help protect from being locked out of the broader market.
Apple cut off any apps that have subscription features that manufacturers would want to feature as part of Carplay.
I could imagine Apple shrinking the icons on the main interface and giving the manufacturers a series of icons along the top or bottom of the Carplay interface to control some of the car settings and to fully integrate other audio sources like FM/HD/Satellite radio.
Subscription App Store fees are 30% the first year but 15% every year after and most cars are held for a long time. And Apple could certainly move off of that.
Perhaps Apple TV channels are a better analog - there are a number of TV providers that you can subscribe to right in Apple TV. By all accounts it’s a channel by channel negotiation, not a standardized fee. There’s no reason Apple would need to go through the App Store and standard fees with car manufacturers.
I think the bottom line is that if Apple thinks that CarPlay adds brand value to iPhone, and car manufacturers aren’t willing to implement the existing CarPlay at the existing fee structure, then they need to sweeten the pot.
I don't have a dog in that hunt. I use Carplay on all three family cars that are capable of it. The only one that doesn't have it is my mother-in-law's car, which is older than the rest. I won't consider a new vehicle that doesn't have it. Wired or wireless doesn't matter to me since I've used both, and sometimes there is lag or a bit of instability with wireless, though the convenience is nice.
I don't know anyone in my family that doesn't use it.
The one added feature I want is the ability to stream video to rear entertainment in the car. It would be great if I could have the kids stream Netflix or Disney to the Honda Pilot's screen for the back rows. That's aside from my ever-present request to be able to pin just one more app to the left edge. I don't care about access to the car controls from Carplay. The only ones I use while driving are the HVAC controls, and even then, only for defogging and fan speed, but all my cars have dedicated buttons. I refuse to use an LCD for that.
I don't know anyone in my family that doesn't use it.
The one added feature I want is the ability to stream video to rear entertainment in the car. It would be great if I could have the kids stream Netflix or Disney to the Honda Pilot's screen for the back rows. That's aside from my ever-present request to be able to pin just one more app to the left edge. I don't care about access to the car controls from Carplay. The only ones I use while driving are the HVAC controls, and even then, only for defogging and fan speed, but all my cars have dedicated buttons. I refuse to use an LCD for that.
I’d think that relative to manufacturer proceeds from the likes of Sirius/XM, 70/85% of the pot would be an improvement. Beyond that, unlike other Apple platforms, the manufacturer has “captured me as a customer” and has the ability to market to me directly. (And, unfortunately, on a nearly-continuous basis through multiple channels. I still receive notices to renew the Sirius subscription for a leased car that goes back four vehicles.) I pay Sirius directly for both entertainment (don’t ask — not everything is negotiable) and the cars internet connection. (Auto-start from the app mid-winter FTW.)
I understand the concerns of the manufacturers here but, I reiterate they run the risk of “not meeting me where I am.” I can’t say “no CarPlay” is a total deal breaker but it sets a higher bar for a brand to cross. Particularly if equivalent brands offer me what I want.
Apple should be a less imposing partner. (Maybe start by just being a partner?) Vehicle marques should better understand the value that Apple brings to the table. Both would do well to prioritize the needs and wants of the customer. On the last front, one party has a longer road ahead of them.
All that said, I don’t believe Apple’s position here is precarious enough to warrant buying a car company (for the purpose of promoting CarPlay), nor do I believe that purchase would advance this goal.
I understand the concerns of the manufacturers here but, I reiterate they run the risk of “not meeting me where I am.” I can’t say “no CarPlay” is a total deal breaker but it sets a higher bar for a brand to cross. Particularly if equivalent brands offer me what I want.
Apple should be a less imposing partner. (Maybe start by just being a partner?) Vehicle marques should better understand the value that Apple brings to the table. Both would do well to prioritize the needs and wants of the customer. On the last front, one party has a longer road ahead of them.
All that said, I don’t believe Apple’s position here is precarious enough to warrant buying a car company (for the purpose of promoting CarPlay), nor do I believe that purchase would advance this goal.
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I admittedly didn't watch any of WWDC, but I thought they already announced stuff like this for CP2.
The obvious rejoinder is "Then don't make it suck."
Fortunately for Rivian they're actually executing on the infotainment front. If there's one company that would get me to buy in, it's them. But they're so niche as to be irrelevant to most people. In the broader sense of infotainment—the Big 3, Toyota, Honda, etc—they fail over and over again.
Does car stuff count under the revenue sharing rule, or is it one of those funky gray areas? Like for Sirius/XM subs yeah sure, but there's also various stuff that's excluded.
...just realized my car has one (still in the free period) so could check the app. The subscription account stuff just opens the purchase page in an in app browser view. Course it's not a CarPlay app so depends what you're referring to I guess.
Hell to an extent it's already being done now by cars that have screen dominant interfaces, for CarPlay they just kinda have it in a window.
I'm not sure how CP1 did multiple screens (maybe second windows and/or data forwarding?), but for CP2 the big thing is the whole "punch through" trick. I guess theoretically the manufacturer can do whatever they want and integrate CarPlay views even more to their own tastes, but not sure that applies to just the dashboard screen area or to everything including touch controls.
Getting a bit off topic but there's CarPlay adapters that are Android boxes that can do that sorta thing (as well as the usual CarPlay stuff), for the main screen at least.
As good as they may be, it would not supersede having a standard setup in all our cars.
Straight from the horse‘s mouth, Rivian taking a victory lap -
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhLKv8KZi8c
what I will be curious about is whether VW will take the underlying tech and offer CarPlay for their future cars using Rivian tech. Or whether VW will ask Rivian to develop CarPlay capabilities for the platform VW buys from Rivian.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhLKv8KZi8c
what I will be curious about is whether VW will take the underlying tech and offer CarPlay for their future cars using Rivian tech. Or whether VW will ask Rivian to develop CarPlay capabilities for the platform VW buys from Rivian.
If the other manufacturers could execute like Rivian, I think phone mirroring wouldn't have taken hold as much as it has. I'm a big fan of CarPlay because I don't have to screw around with manufacturer trash, but I believe there's places where a manufacturer could do things that a phone couldn't. Rivian's recharge navigation integration is a prime example. But every time a major manufacturer's tried to do it they've fumbled. GM will eliminate CarPlay at its own peril because over the past decade they've proven time and time again that they can't execute.
It applies to everything.
In a nutshell, the automaker can design their entire dashboard with iOS/CarPlay idioms, but anything the car itself needs to display can punch through. The examples were informational icons and live cameras (e.g. backup). It wasn't spelled out in the WWDC session, but I think if you were really ambitious you could even do all the gauges in CarPlay but still punch through your own nav.
Apple doesn't need to "[give] the manufacturers a series of icons" because they now offer Local UI and PunchThrough UI, where the OEM can put whatever they want, on the screen, at the same time as whatever they allow CarPlay to do.
So your final composite can be some, all, or none of CarPlay, plus some, none, or all of your own branded
1. The first one is up to the manufacturer. CarPlay allows this and I think there are cars that have implemented it. My 2014 CX-5 doesn't have any CarPlay support
2. My 2017 Chevy Volt has physical buttons for < > and Back that work as you mention. it is also up to the car maker.
3. Can't help you there. It would be nice to have more customization options.
1. The first one is up to the manufacturer. CarPlay allows this and I think there are cars that have implemented it. My 2014 CX-5 doesn't have any CarPlay support
2. My 2017 Chevy Volt has physical buttons for < > and Back that work as you mention. it is also up to the car maker.
3. Can't help you there. It would be nice to have more customization options.
1. Carplay allows it, but I don't know if it works with all the navigation apps. Some cars only project Apple Maps directions in the HUD, not Google Maps or Waze. And forget about A Better Route Planner for EVs. I don't know if that selectivity is due to Apple or the manufacturers.
Update: I just confirmed it. In Carplay, only Apple Maps passes to the HUD in a Kia. In Android Auto, only Google Maps. Oh well. I prefer Google Maps, which has over a hundred favorites saved for me. I'll stick to it for now, but I will experiment with Apple Maps in more unfamiliar areas, so I don't have to look at the center console screen as often. I often use Nav to familiar local destinations to get around traffic since it's so bad in my area.
2. I tested the buttons on my steering wheel and double-clicking the >> and << buttons jumps forward 30 seconds and back 15 seconds, which matches my settings in Overcast.
3. Yeah, I know..
Turns out the steering wheel control behavior for skip or go to next is per-app. Here's Overcast and Podcasts.app.
You can export Google maps favorites to Apple Maps1. Carplay allows it, but I don't know if it works with all the navigation apps. Some cars only project Apple Maps directions in the HUD, not Google Maps or Waze. And forget about A Better Route Planner for EVs. I don't know if that selectivity is due to Apple or the manufacturers.
Update: I just confirmed it. In Carplay, only Apple Maps passes to the HUD in a Kia. In Android Auto, only Google Maps. Oh well. I prefer Google Maps, which has over a hundred favorites saved for me. I'll stick to it for now, but I will experiment with Apple Maps in more unfamiliar areas, so I don't have to look at the center console screen as often. I often use Nav to familiar local destinations to get around traffic since it's so bad in my area.
2. I tested the buttons on my steering wheel and double-clicking the >> and << buttons jumps forward 30 seconds and back 15 seconds, which matches my settings in Overcast.
3. Yeah, I know..
Switch from Google Maps to Apple Maps without losing your favorite pinned places
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