Apple Should Buy Rivian To Save CarPlay

dal20402

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The BMW/Mazda approach worked pretty well back before smartphone adoption became universal and people were spending hours a day. Now, the "any random screen is a touchscreen" expectation is so strong that non-touchscreen systems are generating problem reports.

While it's not my main car, I own a 2011 335i with iDrive 3 and I find it to work pretty well for the limited number of functions it's designed to handle. Our everyday car is a 2019 Bolt with CarPlay and I wouldn't buy another new car without it.
 

Semi On

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Well, we know for sure that BMW can't! 🤣

IDrive was an abomination initially, but they kept at it and it's genuinely quite good now. If you haven't used it since one of the early incarnations, you don't really have any sense of what it's like today.

They've added more modes of control for those that can't grok the wheel (touch, voice, waving your hands about), but touch only systems are a substantial step backwards once you get used to systems like iDrive. It's far faster and safer while driving than reaching over and trying to hit a touch screen without taking your eyes off the road.
 

Honeybog

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I kind of wonder how much of CarPlay was just a value-add since they needed to create it for Project Titan. Now, I imagine that CarPlay has its own benefits to Apple, but the CarPlay 2.0 stuff just seems like it must have been a soft of “well, we had to design a digital gauge cluster, and it’s not like Titan is coming out any time soon.”
 

Semi On

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I kind of wonder how much of CarPlay was just a value-add since they needed to create it for Project Titan. Now, I imagine that CarPlay has its own benefits to Apple, but the CarPlay 2.0 stuff just seems like it must have been a soft of “well, we had to design a digital gauge cluster, and it’s not like Titan is coming out any time soon.”

Several of their execs are well known car fans. I wouldn't be surprised to find out it's just a pet project for Eddie Cue or something like that.
 

stevenkan

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I kind of wonder how much of CarPlay was just a value-add since they needed to create it for Project Titan. Now, I imagine that CarPlay has its own benefits to Apple, but the CarPlay 2.0 stuff just seems like it must have been a soft of “well, we had to design a digital gauge cluster, and it’s not like Titan is coming out any time soon.”
It builds stickiness to the platform, just like AirPlay. Apple sells very few (any?) AirPlay targets, so why do they invest in AirPlay?

Well, I use AirPlay daily, on many devices, and there is zero chance I will migrate away from Apple any time soon, and AirPlay is a part of that.

Ditto CarPlay, now that my car is equipped.
 

wrylachlan

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I kind of wonder how much of CarPlay was just a value-add since they needed to create it for Project Titan. Now, I imagine that CarPlay has its own benefits to Apple, but the CarPlay 2.0 stuff just seems like it must have been a soft of “well, we had to design a digital gauge cluster, and it’s not like Titan is coming out any time soon.”
If you only ever drive one car, having Apple take over the gauge cluster has relatively low value. If you drive multiple cars, having them all use the same gauge cluster is pretty great from a UX perspective. That applies to multi-car households. It applies to when you fly somewhere on vacation and get a rental car. And it certainly applies in big cities with things like Zip Cars and other car sharing services.
 
Was just coming here to post the VW news. So I was right that Rivian was ripe for a major financial investment from an established player, AND that it was about software, not hardware:

The partnership will give VW immediate access to Rivian's software allowing the German car maker to use it in its cars.

So this pushes CarPlay even further away from one of the biggest automakers in the world.
 

wrylachlan

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What does Toyota have to do with it? This is VW investing $5B. And yes, this looks like a reverse takeover if VW internalizes Rivian's CarPlay-free software.
The software that VW wants isn’t the console. This is about the wiring grid that lets Rivian power all the features all over the car without running miles of individual wires to each point. It says software but this is really about simplifying manufacture. Here’s a quote from the press release:

Rivian’s proven in-market zonal hardware design and integrated technology platform are expected to serve as the foundation for future SDV development in the JV that will be applied to both companies’ vehicles. Rivian plans to contribute its electrical architecture expertise and is expected to license existing intellectual property rights to the joint venture.

I don’t think VW gives a shit about Rivian’s entertainment console or any part of the software that impacts CarPlay support. They want the software that controls the motors, batteries and everything else under the hood. Hell, I’d bet this increases the chances that Rivian goes CarPlay, not the other way around.
 
I don’t think VW gives a shit about Rivian’s entertainment console or any part of the software that impacts CarPlay support. They want the software that controls the motors, batteries and everything else under the hood. Hell, I’d bet this increases the chances that Rivian goes CarPlay, not the other way around.
aka, they want a refined implementation of Google Automotive Serivces otherwise known as a nail in the coffin for CarPlay 2 hopes at VW.
 
To me it looks like it was designed by a designer trying to show off how distinctive they could be. It’s ’iconic for iconic sake’ not because it’s the best design for the function. That screams pretentious to me.
You could say the same about BMW's kidneys, but they've served their purpose as a branding icon. In this market space, distinctiveness is a feature.
 
Do you have a link for that? The videos linked above indicate otherwise to me and I’m pretty sure Rivian is using GAS for that as well

CarPlay 2 is still a mirrored IVI system. It can upload assets to the car to accelerate launching and it can tap into the car's lower level layers to display information, but you can't use it without an iPhone, as far as I've seen. That fundamentally exists above the low level, embedded control of the body electronics.
 

iPilot05

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Kind of interesting since VW is eventually going to compete with their own Scout brand in the near future. But still Rivian has the best EV platform besides Tesla hands down, particularly with what they showed off for the 2025 R1.

Seriously, a R1S but with a VW/Audi/Scout badge and warranty would likely be top of my list for a new car. Especially if they get rid of the goofy headlights.
 
Kind of interesting since VW is eventually going to compete with their own Scout brand in the near future. But still Rivian has the best EV platform besides Tesla hands down, particularly with what they showed off for the 2025 R1.

Seriously, a R1S but with a VW/Audi/Scout badge and warranty would likely be top of my list for a new car. Especially if they get rid of the goofy headlights.

Based on the reporting, this vastly overstates what VW has paid to access.
 

iPilot05

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Based on the reporting, this vastly overstates what VW has paid to access.
Yes, yes, I know it's merely the electrical architecture and a few other tech-y bits. Who knows though maybe it's merely the first volley to eventually swallow up Rivian whole? Just saying I think Rivian makes a great car but being a small manufacturer makes it tough to get on board with such a large financial commitment an R1S represents.

Plus I just don't like the front end, so there. :p
 
This $5B investment from VW is EXACTLY what Apple should have done, and the premise of my OP.
...except Apple doesn't have anything existing where they'd benefit like VW does. It'd be just paying Rivian $5B to...give them $5B to use CarPlay. Which Rivian might do anyway. Without alienating all the other manufacturers from using CarPlay.

And yeah the Rivian designs are fine, cool even. Or goofy and weird. Or whatever. They're distinct and recognizable, they get the job done.
ah geez, I assumed this was more advanced than that. Thanks for the clarification.
Well it's definitely more advanced and integrated than CarPlay 1, but yeah at the core it still needs the phone in the first place.
 
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wrylachlan

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This $5B investment from VW is EXACTLY what Apple should have done, and the premise of my OP.
For what? What in earth could Rivian possibly give Apple that would be worth $5B??? Rivian only sold 50K of their fuggly-ass vehicles last year. Spending $5B to get Rivian customers to be loyal to Apple through CarPlay is a $100,000 per person customer acquisition fee! If Rivian scales up their sales by two orders of magnitude it’s still a $1,000 per person customer acquisition fee.

Rubbish.
And the Rivian headlights are awesome. You all have no taste!
If I liked Rivian headlights I’d be in a Samsung forum somewhere, not here.
 
For what? What in earth could Rivian possibly give Apple that would be worth $5B???
They would give Apple a hardware entry in the hyper-crucial worldwide automotive market after they spent twice that much on the failed Titan. Apple could ramp sales in way Rivian never could on their own (or even now with VW's investment). Rivian as a wholly-owned Apple subsidiary with CarPlay is a better outcome than CarPlay (and by extension iPhones) being locked out of all cars forever. Which is where we are clearly headed.
 
They would give Apple a hardware entry in the hyper-crucial worldwide automotive market after they spent twice that much on the failed Titan. Apple could ramp sales in way Rivian never could on their own (or even now with VW's investment). Rivian as a wholly-owned Apple subsidiary with CarPlay is a better outcome than CarPlay (and by extension iPhones) being locked out of all cars forever. Which is where we are clearly headed.

Apple has no idea how to make a car. How do they help Rivian ramp?

VAG, on the other hand, does know how to make cars.
 
Was just coming here to post the VW news. So I was right that Rivian was ripe for a major financial investment from an established player, AND that it was about software, not hardware:



So this pushes CarPlay even further away from one of the biggest automakers in the world.
This was not a merger of giants from a position of strength, nor a "reverse merger" as you suggested below (do you really think Rivian management is going to run VW?).

It's an act of desperation from an auto company in trouble, rescuing a startup that was running out of cash.

Garbage collection isn't Apple's style.
 
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If that’s the prediction that’s motivating this whole thing I think the conversation is pretty much over because I don’t see it being meaningfully correct.
And even if it is, the proposed solution would basically ensure and accelerate that outcome. Except in Rivians. Which would effectively be the same as losing CarPlay for the vast majority of iPhone users.