2024 Apple Devices

Bonusround

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So a couple new rumors have cropped up. The first is that both the MacBook Pro and Apple Watch are getting the “thin” treatment like the new iPP.
Prolly too soon, but wonder if the thin watch has anything to do with this:

There’s also the scuttlebutt that the M4 iPPs’ batteries employ a new cathode which saves volume. Apply the same to a MBP and off you go….
 
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wrylachlan

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Prolly too soon, but wonder if the thin watch has anything do to with this:

There’s also the scuttlebutt that the M4 iPPs’ batteries employ a new cathode which saves volume. Apply the same to a MBP and off you go….
Definitely too soon.

But I suppose it’s an interesting question - who stands to win if battery technology gets markedly more energy dense? On the one hand, Apple has lots of history with making desirable thin and light designs and you can imagine them salivating over these hyper dense batteries as another arrow in their design quiver. On the other hand once it’s trivial for anyone to make a thin and light device because the batteries are so good, will Apple’s paper-thin sell meaningfully better than other OEMs incredibly thin?

The places where it likely will make a difference are wearables. A week long Apple Watch or multi-day AirPods would be pretty great. Or use the additional energy density to power new sensors like the blood glucose sensor they’ve been working on for a decade or additional health sensors in AirPods.
 

Chris FOM

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It actually would have ranged from 38mm->42mm->44mm->45mm over that period. I suspect the next Ultra would then go to 51mm matching the higher end Garmin watches
You’re both right. The non-Ultra watch is offered in two sizes at once, so the history was 38/42, 40/44, and more recently 41/45.
 
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japtor

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Today’s Kuo rumor is that the regular series Apple Watches are going 45mm and 49mm and getting much thinner. I’m not sure what to make of this. That seems an extreme bump up after going 42mm->44mm->45mm over like 10 years. Would a substantially thinner watch make that size bump palatable to people? Or perhaps they will continue to sell the 41mm and the 49mm ‘regular’ Apple Watch just represents a new model size.
The screen size bumps have come with some redesign and bezel reductions too. Could be another redesign to reduce bezel/body to compensate a bit for moving to a bigger screen.
 
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wrylachlan

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Remember, this will be the 10th anniversary so some noticeable design changes were rumored.

Hope to also see a big processor bump, because the hasn't advanced as much and Android has raised their game on watches, especially processor performance.
They just bumped from 7nm to 5nm last year. So while I too would love them to go pedal to the metal on their processor I would be pretty surprised if they went to 3nm this year.
 

The Limey

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Yeah, I asked for an Air, I got the base iPad. Can't complain though - I did get an iPad. SO much more productive than an iPhone that I traded in for it. We use MS Teams/Outlook for most communications and Outlook is a POS on the iPhone (mainly because I can't tell WTH I'm doing).

Accidentally emailed my director a "Don't do that explainer", she asked me - did you send that to those that needed to hear that? Oops, nope. I coun't figure out which message in the conversation I was replaying to.
Turn conversation view off - it’s a nightmare.
 

Hap

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Thank you!

I found similar answers, but Outlook on iPad is just different enough that I struggled to find the option using iPhone directions. This answer was a little more complete and I found it. I thought I had searched every single option in the app, apparently not.
 
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andgarden

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It actually would have ranged from 38mm->42mm->44mm->45mm over that period. I suspect the next Ultra would then go to 51mm matching the higher end Garmin watches
I'm not sure if it's lazy engineering, annoying consumer preferences, or some combination, but I'm really tired of everything in the Apple lineup getting bigger. I want my 40 mm watch, 11" MBA, and iPhone mini dammit!
 

Honeybog

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I use a Shortcut to toggle 5G off when I get within WiFi range of my house/on when I leave.

Although more often than not, I end up in areas where the 5G network is overloaded or reception is poor, so I also have the toggle tied to the Action Button. I almost never notice when I leave 5G disabled, but frequently notice when it’s on. Personally, I’d have preferred that telecoms improved their existing infrastructure first, but that’s crazy talk, I’m sure.
 

Bonusround

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Precisely why I turned it off on mine and dropped my plan to 4G only.
I did that for a long while as LTE always offered a stronger signal. But that equation has begun to shift and I now cast my fate with 5G Auto. Battery life has been roughly comparable, at least in the City.

Also, AT&T now sees fit to only allow mobile hotspot when I enable 5G. <grrr>, <sigh>
 
New Apple Watch rumors.


Bigger screen but more interestingly, blood pressure monitoring and sleep apnea detection?
 
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Bigger screen but more interestingly, blood pressure monitoring and sleep apnea detection?
Galaxy watches have had blood pressure for a while. Not continuous. Still needs an actual cuff for regular calibration. Often fails or is off by a significant amount. I doubt the Apple Watch will differ.

Sleep apnea still requires a sleep study for a prescription and calibration with a doctor.

I continue to believe that the medical utility of these watch sensors is vanishingly tiny.

Someone (not being specific here) may try to point out the half dozen users out of millions who managed to ‘save’ their lives through a-fib detection or undiagnosed high heart rate. Please don’t. The Apple marketing team works hard enough as is without getting customers to carry their water as well.

Continuous, non-invasive glucose monitoring is the real game changer.
 
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gregatron5

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Someone (not being specific here) may try to point out the half dozen users out of millions who managed to ‘save’ their lives through a-fib detection or undiagnosed high heart rate. Please don’t. The Apple marketing team works hard enough as is without getting customers to carry their water as well.
What monkey is on your back? Apple marketing doesn't have to do anything for me to have noticed PVCs that have never shown up while I've been sitting for ECGs. Since I'm a bit of a tech geek I ask doctors about it, and all 3 cardiologists I've seen have told me that having ECGs available on-demand in a non-clinical setting, even if they're single-lead, has been a game changer for them.

Non-invasive glucose monitoring will be a game changer for sure, but another game changer. So what if Apple marketing milks it for the feels. Don't dismiss an actual good that benefits thousands if not millions of people just because it's not your bugaboo.
 

jaberg

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I have in my immediate circle one real life friend, I have breakfast with him weekly, whose cardiologist, unbeknownst to Apple Marketing, credits Watch, and the immediate ER visit it initiated (while on vacation), with saving said friends life. Beyond that I know of three others at a senior living facility where I provide a monthly program, who tell the same story. So I have to believe the number of people helped by the heart monitoring function is higher than six.

If a $350 Watch can potentially save a life…I’ll carry that water uphill in both directions.
 
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Chris FOM

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I continue to believe that the medical utility of these watch sensors is vanishingly tiny.

Someone (not being specific here) may try to point out the half dozen users out of millions who managed to ‘save’ their lives through a-fib detection or undiagnosed high heart rate. Please don’t. The Apple marketing team works hard enough as is without getting customers to carry their water as well.
What about the Wall Street Journal? Does that count as carrying water? Additional sensors beyond the current capabilities, if they can be made accurate enough, will improve thIngs even further, but even as limited as it is today (non-continuous background tachy/bradycardia monitoring and irregular heart rhythm detection, single lead EKG on demand, and pulse oximetry on all but the latest models) it’s already a meaningfully good thing.

Also, woo-hoo, 10k posts!
 
Galaxy watches have had blood pressure for a while. Not continuous. Still needs an actual cuff for regular calibration. Often fails or is off by a significant amount. I doubt the Apple Watch will differ.

Sleep apnea still requires a sleep study for a prescription and calibration with a doctor.

I continue to believe that the medical utility of these watch sensors is vanishingly tiny.
I wouldn’t say vanishingly tiny. That you don’t value the sensors is different than the sensors having no value.
Someone (not being specific here) may try to point out the half dozen users out of millions who managed to ‘save’ their lives through a-fib detection or undiagnosed high heart rate. Please don’t. The Apple marketing team works hard enough as is without getting customers to carry their water as well.
Then you’re being unreasonable. You’re saying your opinion is unyielding and no argument will be valid. That’s a pointless position to have and still be a part of the community.
Continuous, non-invasive glucose monitoring is the real game changer.
Why is that any more useable than heart rate, temperature, blood oxygen, and EKG sensors?

I‘ve no reason to doubt their utility, because they’ve been submitting the Watch to the FDA for afib, ecg, and irregular heart rate. Your point that any attempt to supply data to bolster my argument is carrying water for Apple is an invalidation of your argument.
 
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What about the Wall Street Journal? Does that count as carrying water?
A pro-business publication that happily regurgitates company PR releases with just enough changes to make it seem like original reporting?

Since I'm a bit of a tech geek I ask doctors about it, and all 3 cardiologists I've seen have told me that having ECGs available on-demand in a non-clinical setting, even if they're single-lead, has been a game changer for them.

And not one of the cardiologists I’ve seen has found any utility in it for diagnosing or treating a-fib, including my own.

You’re saying your opinion is unyielding and no argument will be valid. That’s a pointless position to have and still be a part of the community.

I was pre-emptively trying to avoid the anecdata that inevitably floods in whenever someone questions the medical utility of these devices.

The heart study Apple links to in their marketing materials, which was sponsored by Apple, specifically lists a number of issues. I will quote in full.

The study was not designed to assess the algorithm as a screening tool or to measure sensitivity, specificity, or false positive results. The algorithm was designed to minimize false positive findings,3 and the low incidence of notifications reflects this intent. Furthermore, the algorithm was not designed to detect short episodes of atrial fibrillation, and participants with a low burden of atrial fibrillation could have been missed. The study objective was not to address the use of the Apple Watch as a population screening tool. Patients using this technology should be aware that the absence of an irregular pulse notification does not exclude possible arrhythmias. Conversely, notification based on an irregular pulse from a photoplethysmography signal should not be used for a definitive diagnosis of atrial fibrillation. Since rhythm-detection technologies are rapidly evolving, additional studies using features such as wearable ECG monitoring devices will need to be performed as the technology becomes available. Nevertheless, uncertainty remains about the benefits of diagnosing and treating asymptomatic atrial fibrillation, particularly in persons whose episodes of atrial fibrillation are of 6 hours’ duration or less.
There was no direct physical contact with participants from the time of enrollment and consent to interaction with the telemedicine provider and ECG patch monitoring. Although our siteless, pragmatic study design allowed us to enroll more than 400,000 participants in 8 months, we relied on the participants’ assessments regarding their eligibility for inclusion and regarding outcomes. Substantial loss to follow-up results in uncertain validity and generalizability inherent to this design. At enrollment, persons with previous atrial fibrillation were asked not to participate, but several participants who received notifications later reported a history of atrial fibrillation. Although we mitigated this misclassification by verifying enrollment criteria at the study visit, this kind of misclassification illustrates the challenges of relying on the participants themselves to assess enrollment eligibility and outcomes.

So I have to believe the number of people helped by the heart monitoring function is higher than six.

Correct. Of the 400,000 enrolled in the Apple study approximately 150 had a-fib. ~0.5% of participants received irregular heart notifications and of those who received a notification, ~35% had a-fib when assessed with a patch EKG.

My original wording was hyperbolic and that’s my fault. Primarily I wanted to avoid derailing the thread by pre-empting the outpouring of personal stories that usually accompany skepticism around the medical utility of the watch (relative to its cost, the burden of false reports, the health anxiety it can create, etc). I failed there too, obviously.

There is probably a place for a separate thread which actually deep dives into separating the marketing, the hype, the anecdotes, and the actual science and utility of the Apple Watch. This is not that thread though and I should have just kept my original post to:

“I look forward to non-invasive glucose monitoring. While all of the other information the Apple Watch gives requires cross validation and professional medical intervention, the interplay between diet and glucose spikes is within an individual’s control if they can be made aware in real time non-invasively.”
 
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“I look forward to non-invasive glucose monitoring. While all of the other information the Apple Watch gives requires cross validation and professional medical intervention, the interplay between diet and glucose spikes is within an individual’s control if they can be made aware in real time non-invasively.”
100% agree, and I have no issue with your previous points.
 

wrylachlan

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While I do believe that there’s significant utility in the heart sensors, isn’t the most valuable health sensor by far at this point the accelerometers? While I don’t have hard figures I’d be shocked if fall/crash detection didn’t save an order of magnitude more lives than the a-fib detection.

The way I think of the utility of the health sensors is around peace of mind. Actually catching an a-fib is a rare event. But the peace of mind that if something is wrong it will be automatically identified - that’s something that impacts your life daily.
 
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While I do believe that there’s significant utility in the heart sensors, isn’t the most valuable health sensor by far at this point the accelerometers? While I don’t have hard figures I’d be shocked if fall/crash detection didn’t save an order of magnitude more lives than the a-fib detection.
I agree. But doesn’t the iPhone have this now as well. In fact isn’t “gait stability” iPhone specific? Satellite calling also makes a big difference for the same reason.

Emergency response is by far the most important feature of the Apple Watch.
 
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Isn't that just location sharing?
No, as in using it like an AirTag. I’m imagining him, in his senility, walking out of the house. Unless you’re saying the Apple Watch already shares its location with other iPhones as part of the Find My Network like an AirTag? Let me look that up.

Hmm, I can’t find any information. So you’re telling me the Watch sends its position to other iOS devices in range such that even if he stepped onto a bus without a cellphone and then walked into a supermarket, I would be able to track him?
 
Yeah. You would need a cellular watch for that. And then location sharing enabled from his iCloud account to yours, either as a setting or through family sharing.

Realistically speaking, though, if you are dealing with mental health issues of that degree, what is the likelihood of him remembering to:
  1. Keep the watch charged
  2. Wear it daily
If you have an answer to both of the above then yes, a cellular enabled watch is, functionally speaking, superior to the AirTag because it would not rely on anonymous Bluetooth mesh networking to nearby phones to ping location but would instead relay its precise location at all times.
 

gregatron5

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Ah I see. My wife and I have only ever gotten cellular watches, so I wasn't thinking about the non-cellular versions. My bad.

That said, I've had AirTags not update even though they're near known devices. E.g. my wife took my car out last week, which I put an AirTag in since the 3G modem in it stopped working last year. (Thanks AT&T!) She was driving the car, with her phone, and parked it in our garage, which is on a regularly trafficked alley. The last updated position was on a street somewhere like 2 miles away.