2024 Apple Devices

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japtor

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  • #681
    cateye said:
    But something about technology causes a subset of people to just completely give up and delcare it's the technology's fault for being complex in the first place. One solution to that is to meet those people where they are, no matter what gets discarded, left behind, dumbed down, or simplified as a result. The iPad has brought a form of that idea forward—safety and simplicity as a goal—and found success, and I am not trying to fault that or fault anyone who found solace in how the iPad operates. Or certainly not think lesser of anyone here or elsewhere who achieves great things on an iPad just as it is. As I said above, there is a certain responsibility for technology, because of its importance in society and day to day life, to meet people where they are. I may personally think people shouldn't fear the complexity of technology (or any complex system or workflow), but I would never fault anyone for at least trying.
    Click to expand...
    Ironically this sentiment reminds me of some people's struggles with the iPad, or iOS or macOS even. In one perspective they might be simplified vs whatever OS they're used to, but they're also sufficiently different enough that you could kinda consider them complicated in their own unique way. Any time you use a different system than you're familiar with it's a recipe for at least some frustration.

    The iPad is in a weird and unique space cause macOS is right there with all the baggage and expectations of it, so it kinda feels like the iPad can't just be its own thing with its own trajectory for some people. Not that it can even entirely do that regardless due to the shared iOS roots.
     
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    wrylachlan

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  • #684
    cateye said:
    This is starting to drift away from the central question, which I think could be broadly summarized as "is it a threat to the iPad's utility to increase its complexity," but I couldn't help but ruefully chuckle at what you wrote here. Well put. That's certainly the crux of the way things are, isn't it?
    Click to expand...
    I’m not sure I rue that reality because it’s been exceptionally lucrative for me personally. Just about every job I’ve ever had has had some element of ‘help people cut through complexity to make an important decision.’

    But back on to iPad, I think it’s undeniably a threat to iPad’s utility for most people to add complexity.

    But.

    There are ways to make complexity invisible. Take mouse support. If you don’t own a Magic Keyboard the fact that iPad supports mousing is entirely invisible to you - not just kinda-sorta-out-of-the-way but absolutely and totally invisible.

    The same goes with support for plugging in a monitor or other peripheral. Totally invisible for those who don’t use it.

    In contrast, it’s pretty common for a user to stumble upon the multi-tasking features and not know what they did. Yes they’re more or less out of the way and you can continue to use your iPad as if they don’t exist, but they’re still stumble-on-able by normal users.

    Generally I would say that invisible is better than just out of the way.
     
    Louis XVI

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  • #685
    wrylachlan said:
    I’m not sure I rue that reality because it’s been exceptionally lucrative for me personally. Just about every job I’ve ever had has had some element of ‘help people cut through complexity to make an important decision.’

    But back on to iPad, I think it’s undeniably a threat to iPad’s utility for most people to add complexity.

    But.

    There are ways to make complexity invisible. Take mouse support. If you don’t own a Magic Keyboard the fact that iPad supports mousing is entirely invisible to you - not just kinda-sorta-out-of-the-way but absolutely and totally invisible.

    The same goes with support for plugging in a monitor or other peripheral. Totally invisible for those who don’t use it.

    In contrast, it’s pretty common for a user to stumble upon the multi-tasking features and not know what they did. Yes they’re more or less out of the way and you can continue to use your iPad as if they don’t exist, but they’re still stumble-on-able by normal users.

    Generally I would say that invisible is better than just out of the way.
    Click to expand...
    I agree with all of this, except that they ("they" being Apple and really everyone else these days) need to do a better job of making all those invisible features known and discoverable. Specifically, the iPad should either come with a big, fat paper manual (which will never happen both because of cost and because the mere existence of such a thing in the box will absolutely turn off users who want a simple experience) or an icon right on the home screen that takes people straight to a comprehensive, indexed, table-of-contentsed online manual.
     
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    Gandhim3

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  • #686
    Louis XVI said:
    I agree with all of this, except that they ("they" being Apple and really everyone else these days) need to do a better job of making all those invisible features known and discoverable. Specifically, the iPad should either come with a big, fat paper manual (which will never happen both because of cost and because the mere existence of such a thing in the box will absolutely turn off users who want a simple experience) or an icon right on the home screen that takes people straight to a comprehensive, indexed, table-of-contentsed online manual.
    Click to expand...

    Yeah, Apple should totally do something like that. I say go one better and make it in to an app that pops up right after you set up your new iPad for the first time, and then again show a little reminder a few days later in case you did not browse it the first time on initial set up. May be give it a friendly name, like “Tips” or something :unsure:
     
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    Jonathon

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  • #687
    wrylachlan said:
    I’m not sure I rue that reality because it’s been exceptionally lucrative for me personally. Just about every job I’ve ever had has had some element of ‘help people cut through complexity to make an important decision.’

    But back on to iPad, I think it’s undeniably a threat to iPad’s utility for most people to add complexity.

    But.

    There are ways to make complexity invisible. Take mouse support. If you don’t own a Magic Keyboard the fact that iPad supports mousing is entirely invisible to you - not just kinda-sorta-out-of-the-way but absolutely and totally invisible.

    The same goes with support for plugging in a monitor or other peripheral. Totally invisible for those who don’t use it.

    In contrast, it’s pretty common for a user to stumble upon the multi-tasking features and not know what they did. Yes they’re more or less out of the way and you can continue to use your iPad as if they don’t exist, but they’re still stumble-on-able by normal users.

    Generally I would say that invisible is better than just out of the way.
    Click to expand...
    But "invisible" also means that you may not find functionality that could meaningfully improve your experience using the iPad. Then you have to either read the manual (no one does that) or discover features via word of mouth (which is kind of a matter of luck).

    Take keyboard support, for example-- iPads have supported external keyboards since their launch in 2010, and it's clearly beneficial to anyone who does extended writing on the iPad. But, especially prior to the release and heavy marketing of the Magic Keyboard line, that was "invisible" functionality-- you're not accidentally going to end up going into settings and connecting a Bluetooth keyboard. So there were almost certainly people out there who weren't "in the know" either hunting-and-pecking their way through novels with the onscreen keyboard, or just assuming that they couldn't do that on the iPad at all.
     
    Louis XVI

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  • #688
    Gandhim3 said:
    Yeah, Apple should totally do something like that. I say go one better and make it in to an app that pops up right after you set up your new iPad for the first time, and then again show a little reminder a few days later in case you did not browse it the first time on initial set up. May be give it a friendly name, like “Tips” or something :unsure:
    Click to expand...
    Sigh; touché. I've only noticed Tips popping up and giving very basic stuff aimed at new users; I've always disabled the tips and hidden the app as quickly as possible. Only after I read your post did I go back to the app and find, buried at the bottom of the list, "get the user guide." Score one for Apple.

    Maybe they should include a paper manual, just so dummies like me will notice it.
     
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  • #689
    Jonathon said:
    But "invisible" also means that you may not find functionality that could meaningfully improve your experience using the iPad. Then you have to either read the manual (no one does that) or discover features via word of mouth (which is kind of a matter of luck).

    Take keyboard support, for example-- iPads have supported external keyboards since their launch in 2010, and it's clearly beneficial to anyone who does extended writing on the iPad. But, especially prior to the release and heavy marketing of the Magic Keyboard line, that was "invisible" functionality-- you're not accidentally going to end up going into settings and connecting a Bluetooth keyboard. So there were almost certainly people out there who weren't "in the know" either hunting-and-pecking their way through novels with the onscreen keyboard, or just assuming that they couldn't do that on the iPad at all.
    Click to expand...
    Honestly I think that’s a tradeoff I’d be more than willing to make - a few people missing out on functionality that could help them versus lots of people having that functionality added to their cognitive load when they don’t need it.

    With AI it might even be easier. “Hello David, I noticed you’ve been hunting and pecking a novel with the on screen keyboard. Did you know that iPads can connect to Bluetooth keyboards and they work great with Apple’s Magic Keyboard”. You get the benefit of the features being totally invisible to people who don’t use them and clearly offered to people who could benefit from them.
     
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  • #690
    wrylachlan said:
    Honestly I think that’s a tradeoff I’d be more than willing to make - a few people missing out on functionality that could help them versus lots of people having that functionality added to their cognitive load when they don’t need it.

    With AI it might even be easier. “Hello David, I noticed you’ve been hunting and pecking a novel with the on screen keyboard. Did you know that iPads can connect to Bluetooth keyboards and they work great with Apple’s Magic Keyboard”. You get the benefit of the features being totally invisible to people who don’t use them and clearly offered to people who could benefit from them.
    Click to expand...
    iPad Clippy. What could go wrong?
     
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    wrylachlan

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  • #691
    Jonathon said:
    iPad Clippy. What could go wrong?
    Click to expand...
    Often the difference between success and failure is execution. The basic idea of having new functionality exposed in reaction to how you’re using an app is not a bad idea - in fact I’d argue that UI has trended towards this with the ribbon and contextual menus for decades. But the execution of Clippy was execrable. Do you really think that Apple would do it remotely similarly?
     
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    Gandhim3

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  • #692
    Louis XVI said:
    Sigh; touché. I've only noticed Tips popping up and giving very basic stuff aimed at new users; I've always disabled the tips and hidden the app as quickly as possible. Only after I read your post did I go back to the app and find, buried at the bottom of the list, "get the user guide." Score one for Apple.

    Maybe they should include a paper manual, just so dummies like me will notice it.
    Click to expand...
    Just a little gentle ribbing. I do think Apple needs to make the Tips app more comprehensive for both iPhone and iPad. A lot of the visualization and step by step guides for many features is great - just do more of it. Not just have a web link at the bottom for the user manual.
     
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  • #693
    andgarden said:
    The iPad is, to me, just a big iPhone. And that's why I don't want one. But I'm sure it's great for people who do and I have no quarrel with it existing.

    People forget that the classic Mac OS did not have a terminal (unless you count the interrupt button, which no normal person ever touched). Its distinguishing feature throughout the 90s was that you didn't have to learn DOS or configure DIP switches to run basic software or plug in a new printer. Apple ran ads with confounded PC users trying to figure out what AUTOEXEC.BAT was. "Easy to use" has always been Apple's calling card. That said, I agree that iOS tends to be like At Ease to an excessive degree.
    Click to expand...
    I have a work iphone, it's getting switched out for an iPad. Why? Because I need a mobile productivity tool far more than I need a phone. If I'm out of the office, I live and die by email/teams and trying to do that on a phone is something that makes me want to smash the phone. Granted, this is a form factor thing, not an OS thing. I first used an iPad in the field, there was no where to hookup my laptop, writeup a report and get it back to the office. Instead, I got the report out in 20 minutes sitting in my car. Granted - you could do that with a MS Surface these days as well.
     
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    thepropagandist

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  • #694
    One of the things that makes the iPad (and iPhone) is a relatively ruthless focus on simplicity over flexibility, at least compared to the competition. The direct corollary to “It just works” is “it can’t give the user enough control that they brick it”. The constellation of things an iPad user has been train to simply not worry about is striking if you think about how to introduce the complexity we’d like without degrading the simple experience.

    Those of us who could rescue that bricking machine and therefore would like that flexibility will always chafe at the constraints created by the mandate for simplicity.

    Had ARM builds of MacOS been out in the A10/A12 days there’d probably be a decent community of jailbroken iPads running MacOS.
     
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  • #696
    So, looks like no M4 Macs until October. That would put Apple on the annual schedule they (presumedly) always wanted. Still strange that the M4 is going to chill in just the iPad Pro for five months though....

    M4 Pro and M4 Max MacBook Pros are a given, but do we get base and M4 Pro Mac minis too? An M4 Pro Mac mini should be faster than the entry level M2 Max Mac Studio at the same price, which will be interesting if we don't get the M4 Max/Ultra Mac Studio until WWDC 2025, fully seven months later.

    Maybe the iMac goes M4 in October too to get it on an annual refresh, but I wouldn't be surprised if they hold it until the spring alongside the MacBook Air M4 refresh.
     
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  • #702
    Scotttheking said:
    Moving from OG 10.5” ipad pro to current 11” ipad air. Now to see if I miss pro motion!

    Edit: ipad performance is still mostly fine, but the battery is shot and with it losing support was finally time. 7 years is a decent run.
    Click to expand...
    We will probably be making the same change later this year. Will be curious to hear what you think.
     
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  • #703
    Sequestering high-refresh rate (>60Hz) output to Pro hardware is among the most egregious and least-defensible examples of Apple’s product segmentation. Especially on iPad.

    In the Mac there was always the proposition of doubt where one could suppose the MacBook Air‘s lesser, non-dynamically-backlit display was somehow incapable of 120Hz. Okay, fine. But the 13” iPad Air rocks the same IPS LCD that happily spun ProMotion in the 2018 and 2020 iPads Pro.

    Hey Apple: <thhhhhpppt>
     
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  • #706
    wco81 said:
    2022 iPad as in the entry level one?

    Sure there should be a big difference, as there's a huge difference in price.
    Click to expand...
    Yeah, I asked for an Air, I got the base iPad. Can't complain though - I did get an iPad. SO much more productive than an iPhone that I traded in for it. We use MS Teams/Outlook for most communications and Outlook is a POS on the iPhone (mainly because I can't tell WTH I'm doing).

    Accidentally emailed my director a "Don't do that explainer", she asked me - did you send that to those that needed to hear that? Oops, nope. I coun't figure out which message in the conversation I was replaying to.
     
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  • #707
    Scotttheking said:
    Moving from OG 10.5” ipad pro to current 11” ipad air. Now to see if I miss pro motion!

    Edit: ipad performance is still mostly fine, but the battery is shot and with it losing support was finally time. 7 years is a decent run.
    Click to expand...
    Promotion is the only thing I miss about my 10.5” Pro after switching to the M1 Air. The Pencil 2 alone was worth the switch, though.
     
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  • #709
    I find Apple‘s cables and adaptors to be the most svelte and pleasing to use, both the USB-C to headphone jack dongle ($9) and the previous 2m USB-C charging cable, still available but since discontinued by Apple.

    The newer 2m charging cable is a bit bulkier because it’s braided. Nice to touch, but more difficult to clean. It also used to be $10 more than the prior cable, but that isn’t the case now. Oh well.
     
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  • #712
    Don't know if it's still relevant, but last time I was looking at USB C->3.5 mm which adapters you could use depended on if the phone supported audio over USB, or if the dongle needed a DAC. I think both Google and Apple adapters were well reviewed. The random dongle with both USB C and audio I tried sounded like a dirty Victrola record. I forget if I tried it with my Nextbit Robin or my Essential PH-1, was some years ago.
     
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  • #713
    I’m fairly certain iPads don’t support the analog-out mode for USB-C, so a DAC dongle is required. The one Apple sells is identical to its lightning cousin, produces remarkably clean sound, and at $9 is probably the best value-for-money product the company sells. It will not power high-impedance headphones of course.

    If you want/need to spend more there’a an entire world of high-end DAC dongles ready to explore.
     
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  • #714
    Yah, the Apple DAC dongles, Lighting or USB-C, work great. I have a two or three of both in various go-bags and they've always worked without issue. I'm all about third party cable-anything, but this is one of those circumstances where I don't know that it makes sense.

    I've never used a dongle that includes a power pass-through, but that's partially because they seem to be universally not well reviewed. I don't know if there's some technical hurdle that makes them sketchy at the outset or what.

    One solution I've used for analog listening + power simultaneously is to use MagSafe/Qi2 for the power portion.
     
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  • #717
    If you're only looking at charge cables, some of the third parties have some name brand cachet like Anker.

    My iPhone 15 Pro Max will sometimes chime on and off from charging to non charging modes with a Baseus cable. But I plug it into an Anker cable which is actually rated lower for PD on the same Baseus multi-port charger and it doesn't have the problem.

    Or I swap my iPad Air 5th gen and the iPad and they're fine.

    The Apple ones, the old Lightning ones had sheaths that just disintegrated over time. The USB-C to USB-C cable which came with my iPhone 15 Pro Max has a braided sheath so we'll see if they fare better.

    But I learned really that all these USB-C charge cables are not fast at data transfer. For that you need Thunderbolt 3 or 4 cables to get 5 Gbps or greater speeds.
     
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  • #718
    wco81 said:
    If you're only looking at charge cables, some of the third parties have some name brand cachet like Anker.

    My iPhone 15 Pro Max will sometimes chime on and off from charging to non charging modes with a Baseus cable. But I plug it into an Anker cable which is actually rated lower for PD on the same Baseus multi-port charger and it doesn't have the problem.

    Or I swap my iPad Air 5th gen and the iPad and they're fine.

    The Apple ones, the old Lightning ones had sheaths that just disintegrated over time. The USB-C to USB-C cable which came with my iPhone 15 Pro Max has a braided sheath so we'll see if they fare better.

    But I learned really that all these USB-C charge cables are not fast at data transfer. For that you need Thunderbolt 3 or 4 cables to get 5 Gbps or greater speeds.
    Click to expand...
    You don’t need Thunderbolt cables to get full USB 3.x speeds (unless you are actually doing Thunderbolt), but you do need cables built for the 3.x speed class that you need— cheap charging cables are never wired for more than USB 2.0 speeds (because supporting USB 3 requires a lot more copper, making a heavier, thicker, stiffer, more expensive cable).

    Thunderbolt certification is an easy (albeit expensive) way to guarantee a specific minimum level of functionality from a USB-C cable, but you can get that for cheaper with the right USB 3.2 cable as well.
     
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  • #719
    So a couple new rumors have cropped up. The first is that both the MacBook Pro and Apple Watch are getting the “thin” treatment like the new iPP. When they move to tandem OLED that will be substantially more energy efficient than the current mini-LED so that gives them some wiggle room to drop battery while maintaining battery life. On the other hand, the Max just got a substantial bump in TDP with the M3 Max moving to 12 P-cores. Maybe the M4 Max claws some of that back through efficiency gains, but it’s hard to imagine that the M4 Max will be lower TDP than say the M2 or M1 Max.

    The M3 Pro, on the other hand moved down to 6 P-Cores. So I wonder if Apple is considering bifurcating the Pro line into a thinner Pro line and thicker Pro Max line (to borrow naming from the iPhone).

    On the Apple Watch side the devices already use OLED so my naive assumption would be that moving to tandem OLED wouldn’t provide as much of an efficiency boost as mini-LED -> tandem OLED. But it is on an older process node so it could get an efficiency bump that way. Or (which brings us to the other rumor) they could just take more or less the same battery volume and spread it out bigger and thinner.

    Today’s Kuo rumor is that the regular series Apple Watches are going 45mm and 49mm and getting much thinner. I’m not sure what to make of this. That seems an extreme bump up after going 42mm->44mm->45mm over like 10 years. Would a substantially thinner watch make that size bump palatable to people? Or perhaps they will continue to sell the 41mm and the 49mm ‘regular’ Apple Watch just represents a new model size.
     
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  • #720
    wrylachlan said:
    Today’s Kuo rumor is that the regular series Apple Watches are going 45mm and 49mm and getting much thinner. I’m not sure what to make of this. That seems an extreme bump up after going 42mm->44mm->45mm over like 10 years. Would a substantially thinner watch make that size bump palatable to people? Or perhaps they will continue to sell the 41mm and the 49mm ‘regular’ Apple Watch just represents a new model size.
    Click to expand...
    It actually would have ranged from 38mm->42mm->44mm->45mm over that period. I suspect the next Ultra would then go to 51mm matching the higher end Garmin watches
     
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