Ars LKF's Which Distro FAQ (ask "which distro-questions" here)
- Thread starter Obitus
- Start date
It's probably easier to just get a newer laptop or a modern raspberry pi.
The other thing you can run is just regular Debian without a GUI.
The other thing you can run is just regular Debian without a GUI.
OK, so got a new laptop, Ryzen 4800H. Yay! So now I want to put Linux on it. Was debating Linux vs FreeBSD, but I suspect at some point in time I'll just run into hassles as so much desktop stuff (e.g. Steam, SublimeText, etc) expect Linux, not *nix. So Linux it is.
However, I want ZFS Root. Coming from the BSD world this is no big deal, but apparently in Linux it's a Big Thing(tm) still. *sigh* Was going to try KDE Neon (basically Ubuntu 20.04 with faster Plasma releases), but that doesn't do it. Nor does Kubuntu. Only the primary Ubuntu does. And unfortunately I don't particularly like it's UI, and don't want to fight with it when I try and remove/reconfigure for another DE. I'm not firmly set on KDE vs Gnome, thought XFCE, but might want a bit more.
Further, Ubuntu 20.04 doesn't offer the ZFS Root install to customize the swap size. I'm planning on running a number of VMs, mostly development and the like, and 1 of them will require quite a bit of memory. I do have 64GB installed on it, but just in case I want a hefty sized swap (on PCIe 4.0 high end NVMe) just in case. I'd rather slow down some, rather than have things randomly killed. So 2GB is not enough, I'm aiming for 20+. More as a Just In Case(tm) than my expectation of actually needing it.
That aside, what distros have reasonably decent ZFS Root install? Preferably Debian based.
As for those wondering, I found these instructions for installing Buster (I'd probably use Bullseye, but I expect the same) with ZFS root. Rather involved.
I suppose I could give ZFS Root for Ubuntu instructions a try for Neon, to give that DE a try.
However, I want ZFS Root. Coming from the BSD world this is no big deal, but apparently in Linux it's a Big Thing(tm) still. *sigh* Was going to try KDE Neon (basically Ubuntu 20.04 with faster Plasma releases), but that doesn't do it. Nor does Kubuntu. Only the primary Ubuntu does. And unfortunately I don't particularly like it's UI, and don't want to fight with it when I try and remove/reconfigure for another DE. I'm not firmly set on KDE vs Gnome, thought XFCE, but might want a bit more.
Further, Ubuntu 20.04 doesn't offer the ZFS Root install to customize the swap size. I'm planning on running a number of VMs, mostly development and the like, and 1 of them will require quite a bit of memory. I do have 64GB installed on it, but just in case I want a hefty sized swap (on PCIe 4.0 high end NVMe) just in case. I'd rather slow down some, rather than have things randomly killed. So 2GB is not enough, I'm aiming for 20+. More as a Just In Case(tm) than my expectation of actually needing it.
That aside, what distros have reasonably decent ZFS Root install? Preferably Debian based.
As for those wondering, I found these instructions for installing Buster (I'd probably use Bullseye, but I expect the same) with ZFS root. Rather involved.
I suppose I could give ZFS Root for Ubuntu instructions a try for Neon, to give that DE a try.
Just install Ubuntu w/ZFS, then apt-get/tasksel the KDE desktop afterwards. It's the same thing, and should work just fine.
Yeah, it does result in some extra stuff installed in the end, but *shrug*.
Except it doesn't have the correct sized swap partition for my needs, just in case, as per above. Unfortunately. Only idea I had from somewhere else was install Win to a partition size that I want for the swap, install Ubuntu with ZFS and hope it detects and preserves the Win partition, and then nuke the Win partition and convert it to a swap partition. And then I'll have to clean up grub entries.
Which honestly seems like more of a hassle than following the above ZFS Root Debian or Ubuntu as per OP links, lol.
Hmm, guess I missed that part. I'm guessing swapfiles on top of ZFS are currently a no-go?
I wish, and probably will eventually, but based on https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/7734 it definitely should be considered a no-go. They'll figure out the best semantics and method and get it working eventually, but not anytime soon.
For Ubuntu installer, yes it does seem to. It does create it's own swap partition, but of it's own sizing.
FreeBSD, when I installed it, created a separate swap partition, and allowed me to choose that size.
EDIT: So, good news/not so good news. Got Neon installed, apparently fine, via the Ubuntu 20.04 on ZFS Root instructions and it boots fine. However I get no GUI Login prompt, and I have to switch to terminal 2 and login, then run startx to get to the Plasma desktop. Looks like they’re using SDDM as a desktop manager/startup. It’s set to enabled, but even after reboot I still don’t have a GUI login. I have a Stack post.
The only other Linux install that "supports" / on ZFS is Proxmox, but that's a hypervisor. Some people do nasty stuff on Proxmox, like managing to get a VM to use the main display card to use that as a desktop, or... well, it's a Debian system, I *guess* you could install a desktop environment on the main Debian OS...
However, I don't remember offhand if Proxmox allows customizing swap size. My Proxmox box has 4gb of swap...
edit: heh, just noted that swap's on a zvol, I definitely did not do that...
However, I don't remember offhand if Proxmox allows customizing swap size. My Proxmox box has 4gb of swap...
edit: heh, just noted that swap's on a zvol, I definitely did not do that...
Well the swap seems to be quite the process, so would rather NOT have to go thru with it if the gains are miniscule so was hoping for some pointers on how to properly read/gauge benchmarks to see if it was even worth the attempt.
@Drizzt321 -- I am hardly new to GNU/Linux, just this forum. I enjoy learning and helping others learn and expand their horizons with the OS. I run three distros regularly and the pertinent one in enchantmentos.
Please see my older review of it at LO -- https://www.linux.org/threads/enchantmentos-xubuntu-20-04-simplified.30324/ and the version is updated currently using xubutu 20.04.1 as its basis.
Am using it now on an external SSD with the ZFS install option. It is snappier and less buggy than it parent 'buntu, IMHO. As stated elsewhere, I have not until last year run any 'buntus since learning on Jaunty Jackalope and continuing until Lucid Lynx.
But enchantmentos https://enchantment.sourceforge.io/ is worthwhile, plus I am learning about ZFS!
I recommend it highly and above all other 'buntus at present.
Enjoy!
Please see my older review of it at LO -- https://www.linux.org/threads/enchantmentos-xubuntu-20-04-simplified.30324/ and the version is updated currently using xubutu 20.04.1 as its basis.
Am using it now on an external SSD with the ZFS install option. It is snappier and less buggy than it parent 'buntu, IMHO. As stated elsewhere, I have not until last year run any 'buntus since learning on Jaunty Jackalope and continuing until Lucid Lynx.
But enchantmentos https://enchantment.sourceforge.io/ is worthwhile, plus I am learning about ZFS!
I recommend it highly and above all other 'buntus at present.
Enjoy!
Interesting. Might take a look. How are there still new projects being started up on SourceForge? I thought that had gone all shitty corporate/download-crapware/autocreate-projects-to-get-download-traffic site?
" I thought that had gone all shitty corporate/ . . .".
You mean, like the whole country? LOL All seriousness aside, I do not know anything else that you speak of regarding sourceforge. Maybe you should ask them, yourself.
Try it! Or you may follow the 'buntu fanbois -- your choice. That's what GNU/linux is all about.
You mean, like the whole country? LOL All seriousness aside, I do not know anything else that you speak of regarding sourceforge. Maybe you should ask them, yourself.
Try it! Or you may follow the 'buntu fanbois -- your choice. That's what GNU/linux is all about.
Out of curiosity (not trying to imply any criticism), may I ask why is ZFS root so important to you?
Took me a second, but here's the shenannigans I'm referring to https://www.howtogeek.com/218764/wa...software-from-sourceforge-if-you-can-help-it/. Looks like the main criticisms I'm remembering are, apparently, outdated but it's left a bad taste in my mouth overall.
Oh of course, it's definitely a curiosity since it's out of the mainstream Linux world, although not in the BSD world.
Anyway, transparent compression is quite nice, LZ4, although the version in Ubuntu isn't new enough to offer Zstd yet. Separate zvol/dataset with snapshot/rollback for my VMs that I'll be running (even if VM snapshot isn't used), and whole root FS snapshotting. In my brief time with the minimal installation I have so far (got busy, haven't had time to investigate why SDDM isn't showing itself startup), every time I do an update/install/etc Ubuntu has zsys which creates a snapshot and adds it as an option to the grub boot options so I can simply and easily reboot back to that snapshot if whatever I just did screws up. Unless I screw things up excessively bad, outside of the normal updates or simple config changes, only then would it be likely I'd need to reboot with a Live USB image and manually have to rollback the snapshot. Back to the separate datasets, they're easy and cheap (storage/time) to create additional ones if I have extra types of data, such as important development files, I can then set that to have 2 copies (since it's a single-disk pool) of each block so in the event of random bit-flips/corruption is detected (checksuming FS FTW!) it can fix the 1st copy with the bit from the 2nd it needs.
So all sorts of cool and nifty things, if used properly.
OK, so, fixed! Driver issue, default kernel in Neon is 5.4, which is too old for proper support of the Ryzen 4800H GPU. Via https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?t=170280 got the right package to upgrade to the latest current 20.04 LTS kernel, which is 5.8, so all working now! So frustrating though...
That's been quite normal with laptops for a long time, that getting all the drivers working can take quite awhile after a new chip ships, and then it takes even longer before the distros start packaging kernels that have the right drivers.
Fortunately, it's usually easy to backport a new kernel to an existing distro, and that's the typical solution these days for driver problems. It used to be much harder back when XFree86 ran the graphic drivers in userspace. Putting everything in the kernel is probably less secure, but it's sure a lot easier... and the kernel team's obsession with backward compatibility and never breaking anything means that backports are almost always painless.
So, yeah, pain in the butt to figure out, but now that it's installed, you shouldn't have any issues caused by the kernel replacement.
Ahhh... XFree86 days...
Anyways, once I got the GPU driver straightened out, everything else Just Worked. Even using a YubiKey 2FA token to login to Github via Firefox. It asked, I put it into the USB port, tapped the button, and I was logged in. Likewise the sleep. Shut the lid, it went to sleep. Opened the lid, it woke up in a few seconds and I was back to the login UI. Amazing! The most seamless Linux laptop experience otherwise I've ever had. No compiling thr kernel 5 times to find the right combination of drivers and options to get things to work (more or less), nothing like that. Wow. Been a loooong time since I tried the Linux as a desktop world.
Don't those things basically act like a USB HID keyboard (as a fallback, if a more secure method isn't supported), that essentially just types in a code for you? So it should hardly be OS dependent, as long as your software supports it. Firefox is Firefox, whether it's on Linux, Windows, or Android.
Yubikey also supports some other mode of operation that uses a more specialized driver. I am required to use one to log in to a work machine, and when it's plugged in, the login screen changes from a username/password prompt to fixed to my username and prompting for the Yubikey's PINDon't those things basically act like a USB HID keyboard (as a fallback, if a more secure method isn't supported), that essentially just types in a code for you? So it should hardly be OS dependent, as long as your software supports it. Firefox is Firefox, whether it's on Linux, Windows, or Android.
Yubikeys have three or four different modes they can operate in (the full featured ones, at least): there's the aforementioned USB keyboard mode (where they type in either a pre-stored password or a generated OTP), there's FIDO/WebAuthn, which has browser APIs talking to the Yubikey directly, and there's a PIV mode where they act as a standard USB-connected smartcard. (There may be one or two more that I'm missing here, too.)Yubikey also supports some other mode of operation that uses a more specialized driver. I am required to use one to log in to a work machine, and when it's plugged in, the login screen changes from a username/password prompt to fixed to my username and prompting for the Yubikey's PINDon't those things basically act like a USB HID keyboard (as a fallback, if a more secure method isn't supported), that essentially just types in a code for you? So it should hardly be OS dependent, as long as your software supports it. Firefox is Firefox, whether it's on Linux, Windows, or Android.
The latter two require driver support, but there are associated standards and I'd expect all three to work on Linux out of the box.
Yubikeys have three or four different modes they can operate in (the full featured ones, at least): there's the aforementioned USB keyboard mode (where they type in either a pre-stored password or a generated OTP), there's FIDO/WebAuthn, which has browser APIs talking to the Yubikey directly, and there's a PIV mode where they act as a standard USB-connected smartcard. (There may be one or two more that I'm missing here, too.)Yubikey also supports some other mode of operation that uses a more specialized driver. I am required to use one to log in to a work machine, and when it's plugged in, the login screen changes from a username/password prompt to fixed to my username and prompting for the Yubikey's PINDon't those things basically act like a USB HID keyboard (as a fallback, if a more secure method isn't supported), that essentially just types in a code for you? So it should hardly be OS dependent, as long as your software supports it. Firefox is Firefox, whether it's on Linux, Windows, or Android.
The latter two require driver support, but there are associated standards and I'd expect all three to work on Linux out of the box
This was the FIDO/WebAuthn. It was decidedly the browser knowing "I need to talk to an appropriate hardware token" prompt asking me to tap the button, not the keyboard mode with a text box to fill in.
My system login on a MacOS laptop uses the PIV mode - it literally replaced a PIV smartcard and reader.
My VPN login on that system uses the keyboard mode - I type in my username, and then in the password box type a PIN and then press the Yubikey button to fill in additional data (I think OTP, not password)
My VPN login on that system uses the keyboard mode - I type in my username, and then in the password box type a PIN and then press the Yubikey button to fill in additional data (I think OTP, not password)
After many years of not using KDE (hadn’t used it since KDE2), in the last couple years I’ve kinda rediscovered KDE, and I’m really liking Plasma 5.
What is your favorite KDE distro, or distro with a well-supported KDE spin? I’m currently using Kubuntu LTS, which I’m perfectly satisfied with, but I’m wondering if there’s something better I’m missing out on. I ran Manjaro for a while but I wasn’t all that impressed and got sick of updates breaking things. I see MX has a KDE spin now has anyone used that in the long term and liked it? I haven’t used OpenSUSE in YEARS, they used to be a KDE flagship distro but now it seems they are almost aggressively DE-agnostic so I wonder if the KDE community support is still there. Neon seems like it might be a little too bleeding edge for my taste, but I’d be interested to hear experiences with it.
What is your favorite KDE distro, or distro with a well-supported KDE spin? I’m currently using Kubuntu LTS, which I’m perfectly satisfied with, but I’m wondering if there’s something better I’m missing out on. I ran Manjaro for a while but I wasn’t all that impressed and got sick of updates breaking things. I see MX has a KDE spin now has anyone used that in the long term and liked it? I haven’t used OpenSUSE in YEARS, they used to be a KDE flagship distro but now it seems they are almost aggressively DE-agnostic so I wonder if the KDE community support is still there. Neon seems like it might be a little too bleeding edge for my taste, but I’d be interested to hear experiences with it.
OpenSuse Tumbleweed is your distro if Manjaro didn't do anything for you.
The Suse group is still probably the strongest supporter of the KDE project out of all the groups out there.
The Suse group is still probably the strongest supporter of the KDE project out of all the groups out there.
Thanks for the info and the recommendation! Gotta say though, my experiences with Manjaro have kinda turned me off to the rolling-release model, I think I'd want to stick with Leap instead of Tumbleweed.
Looking for something to run Apache as a reverse proxy. Would like a Distro that is pretty secure by default, and beyond that I'm not too particular (or knowledgable enough to be particular). Would like something that will have long term support so it doesn't need to be upgraded (just updated) for a a few/several years. It will be on a Dell Optiplex 5090 (i5 with 16GB ram and a 128GB SSD).
Any suggestions? Or just do Ubuntu LTS and be done with it?
Any suggestions? Or just do Ubuntu LTS and be done with it?
You might want to look at one of the RHEL clones. Very LTS, good documentation. The CentOS issue was ugly, but it's still worth looking at one of those. I include myself on the group that dismisses OEL (although I think for instance Oracle has been awesome for making Java move faster [... and there's still OpenJDK]). It looks like Rocky is going to be the new CentOS. In any case, switching between RHEL clones shouldn't be expensive, you might even consider true RHEL... or even CentOS Stream.
Anything's gonna be fine for that. Ubuntu 20.04 will be supported to 2025 for free, and you can pay for 2030 if you want. Debian will be supported for probably at least four years, but keep in mind that their distro-upgrades are usually pretty bug free, especially in a simple config like that, so hauling along a simple Debian config can easily go a decade or more with fairly minimal pain.
And, of course, there's Rocky or Alma Linux, both of which run like CentOS did before RedHat shot it. Both should be supported as long as RHEL. I'm not sure where they are in their cycle right now, but their support terms last ten years.
And, of course, there's Rocky or Alma Linux, both of which run like CentOS did before RedHat shot it. Both should be supported as long as RHEL. I'm not sure where they are in their cycle right now, but their support terms last ten years.
Alright, sounds like its not that complicated (but I can make it that way!). As long as there isn't some "Oh definitely do this for that specific use" then I'm good. Thanks for the input.
Are there any Linux distributions that are reliable with Microsoft Teams? Ubuntu 20.04 does not seem to work well with it.
What is your reliable Microsoft Teams Linux App setup with multiple mics and frequent screen sharing?
Mine is not working. Here's my configuration:
Latest Version of Microsoft Teams using Xorg as the backend
Ubuntu 20.04 with latest updates
Gnome with Dash-To-Panel plugin ( https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/ ... -to-panel/ )
Recent Logitech USB Headset with Mic (2 years old)
Recent Logitech USB Webcam with Mic (2 years old, HD)
10th Generation Intel Processor with Intel Video Output
Most of the time if I have a long meeting and switch audio outputs or inputs any mic input completely breaks. No one can hear me anymore no matter what input I select. The mic volume is all the way up. I've tried adjusting with Pulse Audio's pavucontrol as well with no luck.
Just recently I had a meeting and was sharing one of my screens when I could no longer switch between applications using the key combo Alt+Tab or the panel at the bottom of the screen.
I use both Zoom and Teams several times a week (for hours) and it does not do this in Zoom or any other app. Restarting Teams fixes the audio problems but doing that in the middle of a meeting is obviously not a good idea. The last time I shared my screen the window manager was left in a completely broken state and I had to reboot my PC. I wonder if this is because of the Dash-To-Panel Gnome extension but even Alt+Tab would not work.
What is your reliable Microsoft Teams Linux App setup with multiple mics and frequent screen sharing?
Mine is not working. Here's my configuration:
Latest Version of Microsoft Teams using Xorg as the backend
Ubuntu 20.04 with latest updates
Gnome with Dash-To-Panel plugin ( https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/ ... -to-panel/ )
Recent Logitech USB Headset with Mic (2 years old)
Recent Logitech USB Webcam with Mic (2 years old, HD)
10th Generation Intel Processor with Intel Video Output
Most of the time if I have a long meeting and switch audio outputs or inputs any mic input completely breaks. No one can hear me anymore no matter what input I select. The mic volume is all the way up. I've tried adjusting with Pulse Audio's pavucontrol as well with no luck.
Just recently I had a meeting and was sharing one of my screens when I could no longer switch between applications using the key combo Alt+Tab or the panel at the bottom of the screen.
I use both Zoom and Teams several times a week (for hours) and it does not do this in Zoom or any other app. Restarting Teams fixes the audio problems but doing that in the middle of a meeting is obviously not a good idea. The last time I shared my screen the window manager was left in a completely broken state and I had to reboot my PC. I wonder if this is because of the Dash-To-Panel Gnome extension but even Alt+Tab would not work.
Well I found this post on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comment ... p_sharing/
"Screensharing works well in the web app with chromium though, if you enable the pipewire feature flag chrome://flags/#enable-webrtc-pipewire-capturer"
I will have to try this later.
"Screensharing works well in the web app with chromium though, if you enable the pipewire feature flag chrome://flags/#enable-webrtc-pipewire-capturer"
I will have to try this later.
Just taking a look at MX Linux in a VM. Looks like a reborn version of MEPIS by some of the same people and the antiX community. It's basically "anxiX but fatter," based on Debian and the philosophy seems to be: Simple, well-documented, not bloaty, but not spartan.
I gave it 3 cores, 2GB RAM, and a 32GB virtual disk on a Ryzen 7 4700U laptop. After updating, it's idling just a bit RAM-heavy at ~580MB according to htop.
The idea of a user-friendly spin of Debian reminds me of the old-school Ubuntu approach of very light customization for ease of use. One focus with MX is including lots of help files and an FAQ. It also has systemd files installed for dependency purposes but says it's not enabled by default. Got a choice to download Xfce, KDE, or Fluxbox-based isos.
The Xfce version has some light customization out of the box for things like a left-side toolbar and "flat" design language theme. Other than that it's fairly vanilla, which is good IMHO! There are some custom MX utilities as well; a graphical package installer, an MX Tools menu, an automated system information script that formats its output for posting in forums, etc. The MX Tools Menu has items for installing Nvidia drivers and proprietary codecs, a USB formatter and a live USB maker, a Tweaks tool that corrals Xfce customization options into one spot, etc.
One thing I'm not super keen on is their customized graphical package manager, MX Package Installer. The graphical system installer didn't give me the option to update all packages at install time, so I had over 100 updates waiting when I opened the package manager. But it lacks a Check All option or any kind of "Install All Upgrades" button, so I found myself having to click each box one-by-one.
Also, the GUI is divided into tabs for specific categories. Switching tabs causes it to forget all the boxes you've already checked. Since there's no "Check All" option, that makes me kind of mad...
Synaptic Package Manager is also included by default, but I don't think it has the Debian Backports repo enabled like their in-house installer does. There were 78 backport packages that could be upgraded in the MX package manager but ticking Mark All Upgrades in Synaptic didn't show anything available. One thing going for MX's pm is that it seems to have integrated Flatpak management, but I haven't tested it.
It could just be virtualization issues, but dicking around in the package installer has caused it to hang after a while. After several attempts to upgrade absolutely every available installed package to a new version and then trying to clean up orphaned packages, the installer's UI really hung and pegged all 3 cores I'd given the VM. A few errant clicks while it was locked up and suddenly a bunch of other applications or directories started opening up (Clementine, keyboard aliases settings, Thunar, switched me to the second virtual desktop, etc.) So in addition to the need for an install-all-upgrades option it looks like it could use a little refinement.
Something I don't like about modern Ubuntu is the wholesale move to Snaps. MX still uses .debs and supports the option to use Flatpak (but as far as I can tell none are installed by default).
(the real answer is to use apt from the terminal, but this is supposed to be newbie-friendly right?)
I don't think it's quite ready to recommend over something more Linux Newbie friendly like Ubuntu. But it looks like a decent post-Ubuntu alternative, especially for lesser hardware (there's an official 32-bit version). Or basically "Debian For Noobs Who Don't Like Ubuntu," however large THAT demographic is.
There are some unofficial respins by the developer(s), including one for the Raspberry Pi 3 and later SBCs and a live-USB version focused on being an admin's rescue/testing environment.
I'll probably keep an eye on it as a slightly slicker version of Debian to move to if Windows gets too annoying.
I gave it 3 cores, 2GB RAM, and a 32GB virtual disk on a Ryzen 7 4700U laptop. After updating, it's idling just a bit RAM-heavy at ~580MB according to htop.
The idea of a user-friendly spin of Debian reminds me of the old-school Ubuntu approach of very light customization for ease of use. One focus with MX is including lots of help files and an FAQ. It also has systemd files installed for dependency purposes but says it's not enabled by default. Got a choice to download Xfce, KDE, or Fluxbox-based isos.
The Xfce version has some light customization out of the box for things like a left-side toolbar and "flat" design language theme. Other than that it's fairly vanilla, which is good IMHO! There are some custom MX utilities as well; a graphical package installer, an MX Tools menu, an automated system information script that formats its output for posting in forums, etc. The MX Tools Menu has items for installing Nvidia drivers and proprietary codecs, a USB formatter and a live USB maker, a Tweaks tool that corrals Xfce customization options into one spot, etc.
One thing I'm not super keen on is their customized graphical package manager, MX Package Installer. The graphical system installer didn't give me the option to update all packages at install time, so I had over 100 updates waiting when I opened the package manager. But it lacks a Check All option or any kind of "Install All Upgrades" button, so I found myself having to click each box one-by-one.
Also, the GUI is divided into tabs for specific categories. Switching tabs causes it to forget all the boxes you've already checked. Since there's no "Check All" option, that makes me kind of mad...
Synaptic Package Manager is also included by default, but I don't think it has the Debian Backports repo enabled like their in-house installer does. There were 78 backport packages that could be upgraded in the MX package manager but ticking Mark All Upgrades in Synaptic didn't show anything available. One thing going for MX's pm is that it seems to have integrated Flatpak management, but I haven't tested it.
It could just be virtualization issues, but dicking around in the package installer has caused it to hang after a while. After several attempts to upgrade absolutely every available installed package to a new version and then trying to clean up orphaned packages, the installer's UI really hung and pegged all 3 cores I'd given the VM. A few errant clicks while it was locked up and suddenly a bunch of other applications or directories started opening up (Clementine, keyboard aliases settings, Thunar, switched me to the second virtual desktop, etc.) So in addition to the need for an install-all-upgrades option it looks like it could use a little refinement.
Something I don't like about modern Ubuntu is the wholesale move to Snaps. MX still uses .debs and supports the option to use Flatpak (but as far as I can tell none are installed by default).
(the real answer is to use apt from the terminal, but this is supposed to be newbie-friendly right?)
I don't think it's quite ready to recommend over something more Linux Newbie friendly like Ubuntu. But it looks like a decent post-Ubuntu alternative, especially for lesser hardware (there's an official 32-bit version). Or basically "Debian For Noobs Who Don't Like Ubuntu," however large THAT demographic is.
There are some unofficial respins by the developer(s), including one for the Raspberry Pi 3 and later SBCs and a live-USB version focused on being an admin's rescue/testing environment.
I'll probably keep an eye on it as a slightly slicker version of Debian to move to if Windows gets too annoying.
I took MX for a spin recently myself, and I can see why it's popular. I like it for an XFCE distro or as an option for low-end hardware (they have a Fluxbox ISO now), MX Tools are mostly great, especially for XFCE. But I've gotten rather attached to KDE lately and I'm not very impressed with MX as a KDE distro. First is the puzzling choice of KDE version, both MX 19 and 21 use a slightly outdated but NOT long-term-support version of KDE, so you're just running an unsupported KDE version for no apparent reason. 19 used KDE 5.14, not the LTS 5.12 release, and not the 5.17 release that would have been current at the time. MX 21 is the same way, not LTS release 5.18 nor current release, you're stuck on 5.20 not getting updates. It's weird. The other problem is that it just feels a little disjointed, MX Tools aren't particularly well integrated into KDE and very much look like they've been lifted from an XFCE distro and plopped into KDE.
I certainly share your frustration with Ubuntu going to Snaps though. I recently upgraded my main Linux box to Kubuntu 22.04 from 20.04 and it was a most unpleasant experience. Firefox now takes so long to launch I keep thinking something must have crashed, and while my Linux machine is old it's not so old it should feel so sluggish (quad core 8 thread i7 and a SATA SSD). I'm trying out Fedora 36 right now and I may just jump ship and leave the world of Ubuntu derivatives entirely.
Open to suggestions if anyone wants to recommend me a non-Ubuntu-derived KDE distro besides the above. I'm waiting for OpenSUSE Leap 15.4 to come out to give that a try.
I'm interested in that too. KDE is the one big DE I haven't really touched since the early 4.0 days, but looking at the complete dumpsterfire that is GNOME 3 and how heavy and clunky a lot of Not-GNOME GTK environments are feeling lately, I should really give it a try. Definitely going to feel more at home in a Debian-based distro (maybe just Debian?) so that's where I'm glancing.
I use KDE Neon, which is basically Ubuntu LTS (they are still on 20.04, lag time for the new LTS) with their own repos for newest stable KDE/Plasma packages.
I went nutso and found some instructions for installing 20.04 with ZFS root, so used those, but for Neon.
I'm hoping the new LTS brings in a good, well supported basic GUI ZFS root installer that Neon will adopt.
I went nutso and found some instructions for installing 20.04 with ZFS root, so used those, but for Neon.
I'm hoping the new LTS brings in a good, well supported basic GUI ZFS root installer that Neon will adopt.