The (Music) Producers Club: DAWs, Plugins, and Gear Galore!

Mixing for me has always been a struggle too...nature of the beast unless you do it constantly and your confidence about what to do, and when, is sky high. I don't trust my ears like most pros do. I think it's pretty common to feel like you do. Mixes are often mediocre until they start falling into place, if they ever do--and sometimes you keep messing with them and they fall apart again! I've found it often doesn't take much....bring down one channel, eq another and suddenly bam everything sounds better!

Having good headphones/speakers definitely helps as otherwise some detail will be lost. I picked up a couple different pairs from Massdrop, they didn't break the bank but I think they can get the job done. I've been contemplating the Slate VSX phones...as skeptical as I am about magic tech (as I call it), and leery of snake oil, I've just read so many great testimonials about these.

Mixing w/ headphones is extremely difficult for numerous reasons, which is why pro engineers use various near-field monitors to test their results. What sounds "good" to you in headphones will sound completely different on a conventional stereo (although, with most folks listening to music on ear buds these days, maybe that point is moot, lol).

Another option for headphones is to buy surround gaming headphones like these. They're a re-badge of the Audeze planar magnetic Mobius surround headphone (now discontinued), and sound great. The rebadge comes w/ Audeze software that you use to measure your head circumference to allow for extremely realistic surround sound. While it's for gaming, I've used it for mixing in a pinch, and since they give the impression of a soundstage (you turn your head, the soundstage stays put in "front" of you), they work pretty well.

Best thing to do would be to get some near-field monitors, though... good luck!

I've thought about doing that but have no space to physically put them anywhere useful.

I've still got my ancient KRK K-roks bought in 1997 or so....along with a Crown reference amp I got around that same time.

Amazing that this rig still works with almost zero noise. That said, I don't really know how well it works as I don't trust my ears with evaluating speakers anymore. I did lend the rig to a friend who was in town that said it sounded fine to him (he was used to his own venerable NS10s) so maybe I don't need new speakers

My room isn't great. It's tall, which is good I think, but it's small (it's one of those front of your house home offices). 14x16x14 ft tall with a couple angled walls. With nearfields I guess the room is less critical but I can hear a flutter/comb effect when I clap. Close the double doors and the difference in sound is quite audible so I'd definitely need something on those doors. I've priced out some 2" and 4" rockwool panels from a place across the state, which is key because the shipping is relatively low compared to what they state on their site. Main issue is that I might be moving within a couple years so I don't want to spend a bunch of money on this hobby when I might be able to design a much better space in the not-so-distant future....

Guess I could use some gig money and take a flier on a new set of nearfields, and if they weren't a big improvement on the KRKs I could return them. It would be kind of nice to not need that rack amp on my desk!

Free-standing acoustic panels (also called "gobos") could help, and are useful regardless how well planned your room is (you can use them while miking instruments or vocals).

My room was a ringy mess, and it's wierd shape can't change, so I got in touch w/ the company in the link, gave them a layout of my room, and got the stuff I needed. Made a world of difference, especially for recording acoustic instruments or vocals. And all of the pieces I bought are technically portable

re: panels

Yeah GIK is one of the ones I considered, looking mainly at 2" 4x2 panels, maybe a couple 4" to "trap" more bass (I know that word can trigger some acoustic people!) I think if I get some I'll with Acoustimac, as they are in Tampa and shipping is very cheap to me.

re: reference tracks

There are some pro engineers that say don't use them. I do simply because I don't trust my own ears I don't use them enough, they are getting old, and basically this isn't my day job. I don't think I'd go in with the notion to make your mix sound like the reference track exactly. I feel it helps with basic levels, with maybe giving you a "wetness" to shoot for, etc.

For your tune, I referenced to 7empest as it seemed reasonably close to your tune in feel and instrumentation. Now, whether it's close in production value....that's really a question! For example Jeff Lynne/Tom Petty decided to make Tom's vocals VERY dry on some of his later albums. Go back further, Journey's Frontiers album is the most verby album I've ever heard, there's tons of reverb on everything but it somehow works (IMO).

As I mentioned, Tool does some oddball (from the norm) things with their mixes. Bass usually has delay on it, guitars are always panned wide (matching yours!), Drums are quite centered other than the toms which fly around your head, and the kick is the loudest since Rush's Moving Pictures album or Heart's Barracuda! His snare also sounds like a small tom. But all that said, I still found it useful.

However, another use for referencing is to take a song(s) you know very well and use it when you are in a strange/new environment, or want to try out some new phones and speakers. Woman in Chains from Tears for Fears was one of my favorites. I'd use it to reference no matter what the song I was working on And you mentioned you now have Metric A/B, which will let you queue up a bunch of tunes as references! Bottom line I wouldn't get too hung up on the similar song thing, that's kind of a bonus IMO. Obviously if you are trying to use Adele to help you with hard metal guitars or something that might not completely work, but it still could help just with overall balance, setting verb on a vocal etc.

Lastly in case I didn't put it in the thread previously this is a fantastic collection of multi-track projects that give tons of different songs to mix and mess with. I went looking years ago for free available songs to mix and this was beyond any hopes I had.


In fact, another forum I was on talked about maybe doing "contests" of a given song from this repo--not really to find a winner, more to see what everyone did and people could learn from the results. Just food for thought. KVR does this with composition for their "one synth challenge" contests and it's awesome to see the songs that result from the various participants.

^^ IMO, I'd say the only time to use a "reference" song is for setting up a new sound system (home, car)... if you're familiar enough with how a song is "supposed" to sound (which is already subjective since our head shapes, ears are different, etc.), then it's easier when you have something to use as a baseline.

I'd say don't use released songs as a reference for your own mixes; it can mess with your confidence, since there's almost no way you'll be able to sonically match something made in your room to something recorded/mixed/mastered at a pro studio unless you're some sort of prodigy (not saying one can't do it, but I'd think it'd take the joy out of making music).


You might already visit this website, but Gearspace has an entire forum section dedicated to mixing, and lots of pros hang out there and give advice.

I definitely get what Kiru is saying. Way back when I was learning mixing, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, it was frustrating that a raw mix couldn't sound like a polished mastered release no matter what you did....and that's largely I think because it was mastered Not to mention done by pros on better gear than most of us use. But--I still do think it was helpful for some things but ymmv. Unfortunately for us back then, we didn't have a way to master our projects in-house, that was an arcane art done by greybeards on a far mountain (I kid, sorta)

Now there seem to be a lot of people who mix "into" a mastering chain, which was definitely a new thing for me to grasp. Not saying it's good or bad to do--"mastering" is a whole art/science onto itself that (used to) have a lot to do with getting a whole album to be consistent--but it's an interesting thing to mess with. Certainly a plugin like Ozone or the God Particle (my friend uses this one) pretty radically changes the sound of the mix. I feel I know almost enough to be dangerous with such tools.

Keep at it, takes lots of experience and practice and confidence will come along. I'm sorta in that boat with playing guitar live....I've done hundreds (maybe more than a thousand? not sure) of gigs playing keyboards but I'm terrified of getting out there playing even the simplest thing on guitar. I know I'll take my lumps and **** up, it's inevitable no matter how much practicing I do in the safety of home. But the more I do, the better my chances live will be. Solution at first will be to keep me down in the house mix lol

Yeah, learning to listen is really important. Understanding the importance of the sound stage, where the vocals sit in the mix, where the bass sits, etc. That, proper recording levels and judicious use of effects will give you the best starting point.

Like Case said, plugins are getting there, but I don't think there's one out there (yet) that'll replace an actual mastering house.

P.S., As a middling keyboardist & respectable drummer, stringed instruments make my brain hurt for some reason. I have the rhythm for strumming down no problem, but the fret board is completely alien to my brain, lol.

(accidental quote/post, please delete)

Yep, as somewhat of a "rock hack" keyboardist who has played for many years, the guitar fretboard is "there be dragons". The B string being offset being the nastiest funny (I get why with intonation and all but still).

I've tried a number of times to learn, and made some progress. I'd say I'm about to intermediate on rhythm and abject beginner on noodling/leads.

I was watching my band's guitarist noodle on something and liked one passage, I asked "what notes are you playing there?" He said "don't know, it's following this pattern though"..... I'd say he's a very good player, it's just that the whole pattern-based thing throws me. Sure the intervals are the same from key to key on a keyboard, but the notes obviously differ for every single key you play in, so you sorta have to know what notes you are playing....

There's also the factor that you can move UP the fretboard to play higher notes...ok so far, that's like a keyboard!
Then you can move OVER to play higher notes, which might also mean you move DOWN and still get a higher note. That hurts man. Left is down. Right is up. I honestly think being comfortable on a keyboard hurts my guitar learning.

Lol, I can't even read music, I play entirely by ear. Tried to learn to read music as a kid, but had a lousy teacher, so it was a drag. I "know" what sounds right, I can improv solos and sing the notes at the same time, FFS, but I look at a sheet of music? My eyes cross. Having a learning disability doesn't help!

S2pidiT's suggestion above made my head hurt . I actually have a stack of synths, but envisioning those as a fretboard does NOT compute, lol.

Case said:

There's also the factor that you can move UP the fretboard to play higher notes...ok so far, that's like a keyboard!
Then you can move OVER to play higher notes, which might also mean you move DOWN and still get a higher note. That hurts man. Left is down. Right is up. I honestly think being comfortable on a keyboard hurts my guitar learning

Click to expand...

That's interesting to hear. I've played piano since I was 6, and guitar since 16. I'm comfortable but not excellent at either.

I think it's been long enough that up on the fretboard makes sense to me. But, if I'm noodling on the guitar, I need to translate it to piano. Even if the guitar pattern is easy to remember, learning piano first makes me need to know how to play it there to feel like I've really learned it.