Steam Deck: Who's excited at the PC Nintendo Switch

It’s pretty neat, and I hope they follow it up with a gaming NUC/console and we see Linux gaming get more traction, but I’m not in the market for either of those products. My switch never leaves the house.

Mine rarely does either, but the thought of being able to play some PC games easily while traveling (presuming we ever get to do this again) is exciting. It sounds like you'd probably be able to run any kind of emulator on the thing too, so retro gaming on the couch (say for the games Nintendo hasn't put in the Switch library) is a possibility.

I wonder how Cyberpunk 2077 runs on this thing... ;)
 

Exordium01

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It’s pretty neat, and I hope they follow it up with a gaming NUC/console and we see Linux gaming get more traction, but I’m not in the market for either of those products. My switch never leaves the house.

Mine rarely does either, but the thought of being able to play some PC games easily while traveling (presuming we ever get to do this again) is exciting. It sounds like you'd probably be able to run any kind of emulator on the thing too, so retro gaming on the couch (say for the games Nintendo hasn't put in the Switch library) is a possibility.

I wonder how Cyberpunk 2077 runs on this thing... ;)

I’d be worried about graphics memory bandwidth. Too bad they didn’t use GDDR6 for the shared memory.
 
I've been impressed with Steam Link (Moonlight) on my phone with the Razor Kishi. But you're still limited to games that are optimized for gamepads. I'm hoping this thing brings all the control goodness from the Steam Controller into a portable package that will make m+kb games more playable. Kinda bummed it doesn't have WIFI6 (ax). Hopefully its just a firmware update, because if I need to stream more intensive games it works great on my phone.
 

cogwheel

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The things that give me pause are:
  • The screen resolution is lower than 90% of the Hardware Survey results. While that's not a problem for render resolution for first and third person games, it could be a problem for UI resolution and for more top-down genres like strategy.
  • It's very low performance for today. Compared to an Xbox Series S (not X), it has only 2/5 the CUs, half the cores (so much stuff has 6+ beefy cores now that devs may start targeting that), and 2/5 the RAM bandwidth. This will be mitigated somewhat by having a lower render resolution, but in terms of grunt it seems closer to an Xbox One S, and typical render resolution for that is pretty close to the screen resolution for the Deck. I fear that it'll be good enough for today but inadequate for tomorrow.
  • It's Valve. They aren't Google bad with abandoning things, but they are pretty bad. The Steam Link hardware, Steam Controller, and Steam Machines (including SteamOS) have all been abandoned. The Index hasn't yet been abandoned, but it's only been two years since release.
 

Happysin

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I'm interested, but pre-orders mean the one I'm interested in is more than a year out before I can get my hands on one. I will wait and see for reviews first off, and also see what kind of hardware revision cycle (if any) it will have.

Also, calling it the Steam Deck feels more than a little Cyberpunk. Which is apt, about the only thing missing when it comes to the styling is a way to jack into it. ;)
 
[url=https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=%200062451#p40062451:3pvuwzfl said:
mordbane[/url]":3pvuwzfl]I've been impressed with Steam Link (Moonlight) on my phone with the Razor Kishi. But you're still limited to games that are optimized for gamepads. I'm hoping this thing brings all the control goodness from the Steam Controller into a portable package that will make m+kb games more playable. Kinda bummed it doesn't have WIFI6 (ax). Hopefully its just a firmware update, because if I need to stream more intensive games it works great on my phone.
This. Between my Razer Kishi, Xbox Game Pass Streaming, Xbox console streaming and Moonlight, that fills all my mobile gaming needs that are not already covered by a Switch.

Cool device though, but seems a bit anachronistic and behind the curve. Streaming really feels like the future if you live somewhere with good Internet (pretty much ANY country except the USA). Looks like MS feels the same way because it sounds like the Xbox is being turned into a streaming console platform.
 

Thorvard

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I'm intrigued. I put $5 down and will follow the development.

I do a ton of portable gaming(Switch, still use my Vita, Gamesir X2 for my phone) so I think I would get a ton of use out of it. Plus since you can get to Arch easily you'll be able to install emulators and what not. This could easily replace the Vita and Gamesir controller.
 

Pro-Zak

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I threw down my $5, thinking maybe I'd enjoy some of my library played portably. And this would be a good Christmas present for myself.

This morning I browsed my Steam library, and about pissed myself when I realized all of the puzzle, walking, HOG, escape, 2D scrollers, and indies that I have buried in there. Am super jazzed about this now.

btw - all of the videos keep talking about wifi. Can this be used offline?
 

alexr

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The things that give me pause are:
  • The screen resolution is lower than 90% of the Hardware Survey results. While that's not a problem for render resolution for first and third person games, it could be a problem for UI resolution and for more top-down genres like strategy.
  • It's very low performance for today. Compared to an Xbox Series S (not X), it has only 2/5 the CUs, half the cores (so much stuff has 6+ beefy cores now that devs may start targeting that), and 2/5 the RAM bandwidth. This will be mitigated somewhat by having a lower render resolution, but in terms of grunt it seems closer to an Xbox One S, and typical render resolution for that is pretty close to the screen resolution for the Deck. I fear that it'll be good enough for today but inadequate for tomorrow.
  • It's Valve. They aren't Google bad with abandoning things, but they are pretty bad. The Steam Link hardware, Steam Controller, and Steam Machines (including SteamOS) have all been abandoned. The Index hasn't yet been abandoned, but it's only been two years since release.

What gives me hope re. abandoned projects is that while the Steam Controller and Steam Machines were abandoned (although I still love my Steam Controller for some games!), is that Steam Deck is very clearly both Steam Machine and Steam Controller mashed together – Valve’s platform strategy seems to be consistent, and the Deck wouldn’t be possible without the investments they’ve already made in SteamOS, Proton, and Steam Input. I’ve put down my £4, too. Either the UK doesn’t have many units, or it’s especially popular here, because I got my order in 10 minutes after they opened the reservations, and mine shows as expected to be available to order Q2 2022. So plenty of time to see how the early early adopters are faring!
 

TigerAway

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The things that give me pause are:
  • The screen resolution is lower than 90% of the Hardware Survey results. While that's not a problem for render resolution for first and third person games, it could be a problem for UI resolution and for more top-down genres like strategy.
  • It's very low performance for today. Compared to an Xbox Series S (not X), it has only 2/5 the CUs, half the cores (so much stuff has 6+ beefy cores now that devs may start targeting that), and 2/5 the RAM bandwidth. This will be mitigated somewhat by having a lower render resolution, but in terms of grunt it seems closer to an Xbox One S, and typical render resolution for that is pretty close to the screen resolution for the Deck. I fear that it'll be good enough for today but inadequate for tomorrow.
  • It's Valve. They aren't Google bad with abandoning things, but they are pretty bad. The Steam Link hardware, Steam Controller, and Steam Machines (including SteamOS) have all been abandoned. The Index hasn't yet been abandoned, but it's only been two years since release.

I think RDNA 2 supports FSR?

So it should be able to output to a TV at 1080p pretty well? Also, FSR could help scale things to 4K?

The Steam Deck can also use more power when plugged in/docked and hooked up to a TV.

Comparing to Xbox Series S, Microsoft’s latest console, albeit the less powerful version, is not quite a fair comparison for a handheld. The Xbox Series S better be a lot more powerful! Especially since games will be compiled for it.

Maybe games can also try to target Steam Deck as well to get some level of console optimization?
 

Jonathon

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I put my name on the list... will be keeping an eye on reviews before actually purchasing (I didn't get in on the first batch because of the Steam issues, so my ETA's Q1 2022, which'll hopefully be plenty of time for other people to get the hardware in hand), but, even if it's not up to playing current AAA stuff at max settings, it should be a decent emulation and indie game box.
 

TigerAway

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I put my name on the list... will be keeping an eye on reviews before actually purchasing (I didn't get in on the first batch because of the Steam issues, so my ETA's Q1 2022, which'll hopefully be plenty of time for other people to get the hardware in hand), but, even if it's not up to playing current AAA stuff at max settings, it should be a decent emulation and indie game box.

You beat me. I pre-ordered the 256GB today and they’re all 2022q2.

By that time I should be able to decide between PS5 and the Deck, since they will be out at the same time. :)
 

TigerAway

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Gabe's confirmed that the storage is replaceable, there is an expansion slot. So anyone that wants to field upgrade, can. I imagine that makes the base model quite acceptable to people who want to tinker.

I think you mean clarified? I thought their page stated the internal storage was not expected to be replaceable but that there is a MicroSD expansion slot.
 

IceStorm

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I doubt they're using a soldered on SSD, so it has to be in a socket, and the form factor kinda dictates either 2230 or 2242.

I went with the 512GB model so I wouldn't have to crack open the device immediately after purchase, but if a 2TB 2230 comes along I'd be all about replacing the 512GB one.

The better question is, are there slots for both eMMC and m.2 internal to the device? I could see maxing out the eMMC storage alongside the m.2
 

Jonathon

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I doubt they're using a soldered on SSD, so it has to be in a socket, and the form factor kinda dictates either 2230 or 2242.

I went with the 512GB model so I wouldn't have to crack open the device immediately after purchase, but if a 2TB 2230 comes along I'd be all about replacing the 512GB one.

The better question is, are there slots for both eMMC and m.2 internal to the device? I could see maxing out the eMMC storage alongside the m.2
The specs have been clarified a bit:

All models use socketed 2230 m.2 modules (not intended for end-user replacement)
All models include high-speed microSD card slot
That "not intended for end-user replacement" caveat likely means that the m.2 slot is hard to access, probably buried in the device (if it were easy, they'd be advertising it as user-replaceable, because that's a pretty big selling point).

Also, they say all models use m.2 for their storage-- so the "eMMC" SSD in the low-end model is probably on an m.2 carrier. Kind of goofy and non-standard (eMMC's usually used in applications where it's soldered to the device's motherboard), but simplifies manufacturing and does mean that you'll be replacing the OEM SSD if you add an NVMe drive to the device yourself.
 

Incarnate

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Seems to have a few too many compromises. Developers aren’t going to develop games directly for it like they do for the switch and optimize for the hardware. The additional layer of proton also won’t help performance. The battery life could be brutal on higher end games. That 2 hour life could be a killer. The low end model is a bit misleading. There are many single games that won’t fit in 64gb, and appears only expansion may be a sd card.

If they do streaming to it from the cloud that could be more performant and save battery life.

Im going with a wait and see.
 

TigerAway

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I doubt they're using a soldered on SSD, so it has to be in a socket, and the form factor kinda dictates either 2230 or 2242.

I went with the 512GB model so I wouldn't have to crack open the device immediately after purchase, but if a 2TB 2230 comes along I'd be all about replacing the 512GB one.

The better question is, are there slots for both eMMC and m.2 internal to the device? I could see maxing out the eMMC storage alongside the m.2
The specs have been clarified a bit:

All models use socketed 2230 m.2 modules (not intended for end-user replacement)
All models include high-speed microSD card slot
That "not intended for end-user replacement" caveat likely means that the m.2 slot is hard to access, probably buried in the device (if it were easy, they'd be advertising it as user-replaceable, because that's a pretty big selling point).

Also, they say all models use m.2 for their storage-- so the "eMMC" SSD in the low-end model is probably on an m.2 carrier. Kind of goofy and non-standard (eMMC's usually used in applications where it's soldered to the device's motherboard), but simplifies manufacturing and does mean that you'll be replacing the OEM SSD if you add an NVMe drive to the device yourself.

Thanks for digging that quote up. That’s the statement I was referring to. It can be a nerve-wracking pain to service some of those devices if you have to remove the screen, etc. I also wonder if it will void your warranty.
 

TigerAway

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Seems to have a few too many compromises. Developers aren’t going to develop games directly for it like they do for the switch and optimize for the hardware. The additional layer of proton also won’t help performance. The battery life could be brutal on higher end games. That 2 hour life could be a killer. The low end model is a bit misleading. There are many single games that won’t fit in 64gb, and appears only expansion may be a sd card.

If they do streaming to it from the cloud that could be more performant and save battery life.

Im going with a wait and see.

FSR or FSR2 can help with performance? I’m guessing the battery life depends highly on the game. I don’t need more than a couple hours battery life though. Any more and I’d rather play docked with a controller. When I travel, I can take the Switch with me, and plug it in to any TV that has HDMI. It would be a lot more hassle to pack a full console. AirBNBs seem to have a TV in every room these days.
 

cogwheel

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Comparing to Xbox Series S, Microsoft’s latest console, albeit the less powerful version, is not quite a fair comparison for a handheld. The Xbox Series S better be a lot more powerful! Especially since games will be compiled for it.
The Series S theoretically targets 1440p, though in reality it targets 1080p because 1440p TVs don't exist in any significant numbers and modern consoles do not render at screen resolution anyway. The Steam Deck's screen resolution is half that of 1080p, but the hardware is only 2/5 that of the Series S.

The fact that it's handheld is irrelevant given that it runs, and only runs, desktop Steam games. This is in stark contrast to Nintendo's and Sony's handhelds and the Switch, which only run games specifically designed for them.

You've got things backwards in terms of what being a target platform means. Since the Series S is an exact fixed configuration that can be optimized for and should have a large enough installed base to make optimization worthwhile, it would need less hardware than an equivalent PC to meet a specific performance level.

Maybe games can also try to target Steam Deck as well to get some level of console optimization?
Games will absolutely not. The Steam Deck is a low performance subtype of gaming PC that will be a relatively small fraction of the gaming PC installed base, using a GPU architecture that is already a relatively small fraction of gaming PCs (AMD is at under 20% of PC GPUs in the most recent Steam Hardware Survey, and that includes both GCN and RDNA GPUs combined), and it already has multiple different performance levels (slow eMMC storage vs fast NVMe storage). There's no reason to expect that any developer would spend time to increase performance for such a small market.

In theory, if the Steam Deck is a wild success (unlikely IMO), then developers might optimize for a theoretical Steam Deck 2 if Valve makes each generation of Steam Deck a multi-year single target and not a frequently-updated family with varying performance levels.
 

Artichoke Sap

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I don't actually believe there isn't a thread on this already (so if there is one, tell me and I'll delete this).

Is anyone other than myself interested in this thing? I put my $6 down for a shot at a pre-order.
I just don't believe that huntsville actually posted again! Good to hear from you. :D
 

cogwheel

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What gives me hope re. abandoned projects is that while the Steam Controller and Steam Machines were abandoned (although I still love my Steam Controller for some games!), is that Steam Deck is very clearly both Steam Machine and Steam Controller mashed together – Valve’s platform strategy seems to be consistent, and the Deck wouldn’t be possible without the investments they’ve already made in SteamOS, Proton, and Steam Input.
Discontinuing the Controller means that instead of two distinct growing install bases with the same unique controller feature set (home and portable), there is one larger but shrinking install base (Controller owners) and one small future install base (Deck owners). It was a bad idea if Valve really believed in what the Controller could do.

The Deck's SteamOS is not the same as the Steam Machine's SteamOS. I'm sure there are some common parts, but the old Machine's SteamOS is a Debian-based distro using GNOME, while the Deck's SteamOS is a Arch-based distro using KDE.
 
No luck in Friday's AM frenzy. Placed my order Friday afternoon for a 512GB Unit. Q2 2022. I also plan on picking up an OLED Switch when I can find one. Both will be a nice change from using my gtx 1660ti laptop and xbox1 controller to play via TV.

If I could build my own dream handheld, the Deck checks a lot of bullet-points at a reasonable price:
  • appears well-built and not cheap.
  • Ergonomics look good with every input I'd want and then some. Stoked about the curved humps for grip and rear paddles on each backside; massive improvements over Switch's flat back and tiny-hand kid-centric focus.

    I'm concerned about the tight placement of those menu buttons squished in above each joystick, and in longer gaming sessions the trackpads look like they'll be uncomfortable if used as primary inputs (overly bent thumbs), but the general layout is dynamite. Wonder if the capacitive joysticks can be shut down when not being touched? That'd be great for minimizing drift.

    I doubt Deck will feel as good as recent xbox/playstation controllers, nor the many optional 3rd party Switch grips, but I appreciate Valve's effort at trying to nail in-hand feel while offering everything-and-the-kitchen-sink inputs.
  • I love the form factor and 7" screen. The Nvidia Shield Portable back in 2013 was (for its time) an arguably more impressive device, but that screen was tiny and the market wasn't ready for what was on offer. This feels like the right device at the right time.
  • the total package of hardware and fit/finish on offer (huge touchscreen, Zen2/RDNA2, SD card, usb-c, haptics, etc) appears impressive given the price. I agree with alexr that Deck is an evolution and mashup of Valve's many hardware endeavors. Even the work spent with Steam's Big Picture mode is going to pay huge dividends with a device like this. I do wish they could have squeezed in a bigger battery to minimize the inevitable degradation from baseline.
  • Open OS/hardware means that as the device ages (or bombs), I'll be able to find a good use for it. There will almost certainly be drivers that work well for both windows and linux. Hopefully iFixit goblin ingenuity and eBay can source replacement batteries, parts for maintenance, etc.

Nobody at this point knows how things will shake out in terms of sales and developer support, but Deck has advantages that weren't there for 2013's Nvidia Shield Portable. People are much more likely to have large backlogs of PC games that will run very well on the Deck. Epic store freebies and Steam titles in my never/barely-played backlog include dozens of well-regarded games like Metal Gear Solid the Phantom Pain, Hyper Light Drifter, Bayonetta, AssCreed Origins, SOMA, Wuppo, Hitman, and more. The Deck is gonna be perfect for that stuff. On the other hand, Valve showed off Control and considering that's a ray-tracing showcase, I have little faith in Deck putting out decent 60fps visuals that include ray-tracing (was that a mild flinch by Lawrence Yang when Pierre-Loup mentioned RT? :p I'll stick with my monitor and TV for AAA bling (if only I could get my hands on an RTX 3060ti/3070, dammit).

I can already imagine where Deck will take over from my laptop/tablet/phone and even PC if I feel like lounging in bed vs sitting at my desk or hooked up to the TV. Steam Deck doesn't necessarily replace other devices, but I'm confident that over time, this and Switch will alter my gaming habits.

Not too concerned about storage with the 512GB unit and SD card. It would be kickass if developers offered lower-res texture packs to save gobs of storage, but I'm certainly not expecting it. Valve also needs to be clear about how cloud saves and device sync works for people who will switch between their desktop gaming rigs and handheld. I forget who, but someone in the random thoughts thread was justifiably pissed about losing a lot of hours due to a mature cloud save being overwritten by a newly booted secondary device.

The big question will be how many of these Valve sells within ~2 years of launch. If it's just ~1 million devices, it'll probably remain niche and see minimal support. If instead Deck reels in, say, 3-5 million, that's still peanuts vs Sony/MS/Nintendo, but makes a helluva big statement about PC gaming on a handheld. That's a market ripe for growth and future hardware iterations.

If only Valve would put their best foot forward with a truly cohesive marketing strategy that leverages both games and hardware. This holiday season they could announce a new free-2-play IP along with mobile-specific DotA/Counterstrike/L4D/TF. Maybe shock everyone by announcing Deck will be home to 5 episodic installments in the Half-Life/Portal/etc universe. That's the kind of thing Blizzard/Nintendo/Activision/etc would do if they wanted to move hardware. Not sure why Valve won't commit the resources. No risk, no reward right? Half-Life Alyx was a great first step, but it is just one game for an obscenely expensive piece of hardware (when you factor in the pc/GPU + VR headset). That's simply not good enough vs what Sony/Nintendo/MS offer. Nintendo has spent decades proving people will buy dang near any weird-ass hardware imaginable if they can trust that there will be 4-5+ great games that specifically target the platform.

Epic is paying out hundreds of millions of dollars to gift freebie games and lock in timed exclusives, slowly building themselves up as a worthy competitor to Steam. 20 years from now, maybe Epic has the lion's share of the market, or maybe it's split amongst Microsoft, Apple, and Netflix. Valve is clearly trying to do more than just Steam, but when is Valve gonna wake up to the fact that selling gaming hardware successfully requires you bring more than just a single 1st party software title? Is Valve even planning on releasing a single game to coincide with the release of their Deck? The fact that is even a legitimate question says a lot about how Gabe and Valve have some bizarre disconnect from what gets gamers excited about hardware platforms. If Valve is going to build a beautiful Field of Dreams diamond and bleachers (Deck or Index), they need to remember there's not much point if players don't have any mitts, bats, and baseballs (Alyx). And just one game (Alyx) isn't good enough! :facepalm: 3 first party games within the first 18 months should be the minimum.

It's a slow Tuesday. I wish I had a Deck or Switch on me right now.
 
*snip*
The Steam Deck is a low performance subtype of gaming PC that will be a relatively small fraction of the gaming PC installed base, using a GPU architecture that is already a relatively small fraction of gaming PCs (AMD is at under 20% of PC GPUs in the most recent Steam Hardware Survey, and that includes both GCN and RDNA GPUs combined), and it already has multiple different performance levels (slow eMMC storage vs fast NVMe storage). There's no reason to expect that any developer would spend time to increase performance for such a small market.
*snip*
Agreed. I do expect Steam to add the Deck's resolution to the hardware survey. I'll be curious to see what percentage it sits at after ~2 years.

Regarding the Steam controller, you guys are talking about it as though Valve abandoned the hardware willingly. Perhaps I've got this wrong, but my understanding was that behind the scenes Valve spent years being pressured to enter a contract or settlement. Lawsuits along with sales too meager to justify continued legal threats is why the controller was discontinued. Ultimately Valve got drilled in court for $4 million and essentially forced to cease production.

I'm not aiming at revisionist history, so please correct me. Is that not how it went down?
 

cogwheel

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Regarding the Steam controller, you guys are talking about it as though Valve abandoned the hardware willingly. Perhaps I've got this wrong, but my understanding was that behind the scenes Valve spent years being pressured to enter a contract or settlement. Lawsuits along with sales too meager to justify continued legal threats is why the controller was discontinued. Ultimately Valve got drilled in court for $4 million and essentially forced to cease production.

I'm not aiming at revisionist history, so please correct me. Is that not how it went down?
If that lawsuit was a reason for the abandonment of the Controller, then the Deck appears to fall afoul of the same patent (it has buttons on the back of the grips), which isn't set to expire until 2031.
 

alexr

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The Deck's SteamOS is not the same as the Steam Machine's SteamOS. I'm sure there are some common parts, but the old Machine's SteamOS is a Debian-based distro using GNOME, while the Deck's SteamOS is a Arch-based distro using KDE.

It's still Linux, so all of Valve's ongoing efforts with Steam on Linux and their Proton Windows compatibility layer are, presumably, being used here. I'm not sure if the distro and desktop environment makes much difference –  Steam already ran on more distros than just SteamOS.

[*] the total package of hardware and fit/finish on offer (huge touchscreen, Zen2/RDNA2, SD card, usb-c, haptics, etc) appears impressive given the price. I agree with alexr that Deck is an evolution and mashup of Valve's many hardware endeavors. Even the work spent with Steam's Big Picture mode is going to pay huge dividends with a device like this. I do wish they could have squeezed in a bigger battery to minimize the inevitable degradation from baseline.

Interestingly, the UI for the Deck seems to be a bit of a change of direction from Big Picture mode on a technical level:

[url=https://www.ign.com/articles/steam-deck-os-ui-system-software-bridges-the-gap-between-console-and-pc:21dm5qlm said:
IGN[/url]":21dm5qlm]
Spofford told me that “the main thing to understand is the operating system of [the Steam Deck] is just Steam.” It’s been given a facelift to work better with a controller just like Big Picture, but unlike Big Picture it’s not some branched product when it comes to Valve’s backend; it’s the same Steam with a different look. That means where Big Picture Mode didn’t get all of Steam’s recent improvements because development couldn’t necessarily be easily shared between the two versions, the Steam Deck will naturally be able to inherit everything – and features Valve develops for the Deck will also go toward improving Steam in return.

But it definitely shows that Valve have learnt from the experience and are applying that to Steam Deck. A Valve developer has also posted in the Steam forums confirming that the Deck UI will eventually replace Big Picture mode, which is great news, and it adds to the user base who'll benefit from this work, even if they don't own a Deck:

[url=https://steamcommunity.com/groups/bigpicture/discussions/1/5167301764850695635/:21dm5qlm said:
austinp_valve on Steam Discussions[/url]":21dm5qlm]
Yes, we are replacing Big Picture with the new UI from Deck. We don't have an ETA to share yet though.
 

Mojo-jojo

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Solid 'meh' for me. I don't want it to fail or anything, I just don't see a use case where it works for me. I have a few smaller games in my Steam library that would probably work just fine on it, but I don't generally want PC type experiences to be portable.

Also, not really into the idea of something that weights more than double a Switch for portable gaming either.