The Tabletop RPG Thread

I played an avenger in a 1-shot game, and it seemed horribly overpowered. Despite being listed as a striker, it had sub-par damage output, but I had a higher armor class than the defender, better status effects than the controller, and I could heal as much as the leader. And everything depended on only one stat.

Currently playing a defensive battlerager fighter (sans errata) who is also horribly overpowered.

Hoo-ray! Megathread!

As I noted in the other thread, I ended up canceling my ongoing 4e game. It was down to only three players, and one of them was becoming a fairly negative influence on the game (e.g., sleeping during the session, whining about combat encounters, etc).

I’m going to take a break from DMing for a while and play in another 4e game with some friends I haven’t seen for a while. I’m thinking of being a shardmind psion. I might also be getting in on an L5R game as well. :bigdumbgrin:

I do plan on DMing again at some point. I really like some of the suggestions that Underdark had for campaigns and want to go all out with one. I’ve never really taken the time to really flesh out a world, so that could be fun.

4E intrigues me in general. I really wish there was a rock-solid online play method.

I'm running a 4th Ed Future Game, we just got to the 2nd game so it's sort of hard to tell how things are going to go. In the first game they came into a great deal of money, that they spent buying themselves a really pimped out merchant ship. Then they went and ignored all the missions that required a cool ship, and instead took a mission that was almost entirely planet based.

There was much WTF were we thinking at the start of the next game when they realized that out of the 10 million credits they got, they spent 9.9 million on the ship and didn't have enough left over to really get themselves better out of ship gear.

[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=20442621#p20442621:35qwpehn said:

Squrf[/url]":35qwpehn]I really wish there was a rock-solid online play method.

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Wizards really dropped the ball with D&D Insider. The character generator is nice (though I wish it used Silverlight), but the compendium is cumbersome to use, and the monster builder is kind of crappy. After Scales of War ended, they did not replace it with a new one. Dungeon and Dragon are pretty worthless unless one likes a random stream of new powers and adventures.

Among most of my friends, 4e has acquired a reputation for being a combat-only system, and I think a lot of impression is due to the combat focus of the Wizards materials. There is nothing (from Wizards) that compares to what Paizo is putting out for Pathfinder, and that is a shame I think 4e would be great with well written adventures (and is what I am aiming for with my future Underdark campaign).

From the other thread. Sorry for missing this question, I'll proceed to answer it ... now.

RaveBomb, could you describe your D&D Encounters experience? I’ve read some fairly negative stuff about it e.g. on EN World, particularly about its rewards structure being set up to encourage players to buy more WotC materials.

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In a word: Awesome. I love to be able to go in, play for about 2 hours and go home. The format surrounds a single combat "encounter" that takes most of the evening, with role play opportunities book ending it.

At the store I go to, there are two groups playing. My group has stabalized with 5 "regular" players and sometimes a sixth, the other group is 6 or 7 I think. They start earlier so I don't get a huge opportunity to interact with them.

Our DM is fun, and I think it's really the DM that makes or breaks things for the players. Our group has its share of little interactions and in-jokes that have developed over the course of the adventure.

If you care about the Delver awards, (and that to me is a big IF) then you'd need to have made a character with the character builder (OLD free version available), and used a PH3 race and feat for maximum points. These would necessitates a DDI purchase at a minimum. However, this is totally optional, and I've never been pressured or felt that I've had to buy any product.

That doesn't mean that I don't grab dice or something from the store while I'm there, but that's more of a personal guilt thing. I hate taking up their space / etc. without giving them something back.

I have 3.5 edition game going on right now, which i'll have to do an mid-adventure cliff hanger since i'm leaving for MOS training next week and i'll be gone for two months.

The group just defeated some drow, in which one of them died from an encounter with an Orca. I was going to finished the adventure with them meeting another group, but instead a typhoon is going to "come out of nowhere" and force them underground.

I'd like to see a modified D&D Online MMO, where Wizards offers a whole world map and fleshed out cities and set-piece dungeons, but lets players turn on DM mode for instanced encounters and NPC control. With some minimal amount of preparation in pre-placing enemies, one person could have combats ready to launch for predetermined party members (or perhaps grab some randoms from the local tavern lobby), but all the non-combat stuff would be within the framework of the MMO world.

Imagine the kind of game you could run within, say, the World of Warcraft world with a grid overlay and on-demand instancing. But when you're just tooling around town RPing and bullshitting, you can involve players from other campaigns who are also in town looking to RP and bullshit. It's all the control of your home campaign, plus the fleshed-out robustness of the game environment whenever you want it.

Among most of my friends, 4e has acquired a reputation for being a combat-only system, and I think a lot of impression is due to the combat focus of the Wizards materials.

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While I disagree wiht 4e being combat-only, I do conceed the point you're making here. If a DM wants to run a canned adventure out of the box, then yea, it's going to be a lot of combat. Personally, as part of my prep, I try to fill in the role playing blanks. I mess with the setting, change plot hooks, or
whatever it takes to integrate with my campaign. I try to get a sense of the major NPCs so I can bring them to life. For a dungeon crawl type area, I try to interspurse the combat encounters with other things to for them to explore and interact with.

Personally, I try to mix it up a little. Heavy combat last session? Ok this session we're going to have a chance to laze around town a little. Getting fat at the Inn? Bar Fight! I try to allow my players a fair amount of lattitude in investigating an upcoming encounter and let them banter between (or during) encounters.

xcmt":15mlx6n4 said:

I'd like to see a modified D&D Online MMO,

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Neverwinter Nights had so much promise...

RaveBomb":1hs7knfd said:

xcmt":1hs7knfd said:

I'd like to see a modified D&D Online MMO,

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Neverwinter Nights had so much promise...

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The problem is that building a working virtual world is either extremely time-consuming or so simplistic it doesn't give you any advantage over doing it "the good old way".

Think about it: you want to start your adventure in a tavern where the maid will let down a hint to the players about a dwarf having some kind trouble in the first floor (I know it's stupid: who'd help a dwarf ). To set that up in a virtual world, you'll need, at best, several minute for selecting the proper map, then the proper building bricks (A tavern with two floors) then adding the NPCs (a maid, a dwarf and a number of patrons). All that for two two sentences of descriptions. And if then the players decides to ignore your dwarf (who'd help a dwarf ?) and go exploring outside, you won't be able to improvise without spending a lot of time in the editor.

That, plus the fact that you wouldn't share all the pleasures of physical presence, the ability to get into charater as much or as little as you feel like and the occasion to laugh at the 110 kg bearded male trying to roleplay a 65 kg female elf... Ok, you can probably do without the later...

xcmt":a03cuih2 said:

Currently playing a defensive battlerager fighter (sans errata) who is also horribly overpowered.

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I can't speak to the avenger, but I've had a battlerager in my group since we started running 4e (both pre- and post-errata) and the BR is absurdly OP. Dwarf with mordenkrad, impossible to bring down and routinely doing striker-levels of damage. Player has gotten tired of being so OP and has asked to switch to a paladin. My campaign prep rejoices.

[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=20442848#p20442848:weskj411 said:

RaveBomb[/url]":weskj411]

Among most of my friends, 4e has acquired a reputation for being a combat-only system, and I think a lot of impression is due to the combat focus of the Wizards materials.

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While I disagree wiht 4e being combat-only, I do conceed the point you're making here. If a DM wants to run a canned adventure out of the box, then yea, it's going to be a lot of combat.

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That isn’t really true of Paizo’s adventures (e.g., the one I was getting ready to run in my Pathfinder game would have been mostly RP). It seems like an intentional design decision by Wizards that adventures have the party go out to a site and then run a dungeon, and it’s not one I particularly like.

Personally, as part of my prep, I try to fill in the role playing blanks. I mess with the setting, change plot hooks, or whatever it takes to integrate with my campaign.

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I agree, but I was using an adventure path in my 4e game. Part of the point of using one is that it should provide the narrative that weaves together the party’s adventures. Paizo did an outstanding job of providing not only major players in the AP I was running, but their backgrounds and motivations. Wizards didn’t even provide an outline of what was going on, so the DM was in the dark as much as the PCs.

This is why I’m going back to doing everything myself for my next campaign rather than being lazy like I have been with 4e. I do think 4e can be more than just a combat system.

I try to get a sense of the major NPCs so I can bring them to life. For a dungeon crawl type area, I try to interspurse the combat encounters with other things to for them to explore and interact with.

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My players weren’t interested in exploring.

I try to allow my players a fair amount of lattitude in investigating an upcoming encounter and let them banter between (or during) encounters.

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They weren’t interested in this either.

I'm playing as a Duskblade right now (3.5e), and I have to say that the character class is a lot of fun. Being able to cast and deliver touch spells through a melee attack makes for some great combos, especially during the initial onslaught.

For example at level 12, I can quick cast True Strike for a +20 attack bonus, then cast Vampiric Touch for a +6d6 dmg/temp hit points, power attack (+24dmg) from 10ft away with my spiked chain (2d4+2), dealing up 80pts of damage and gaining up to 36 hit points in the bargain.

It's nice playing a sorcerer who can hold his own in melee. I've also got a nice grab-bag of teleporting/buff spells.

Between 1-shots and two currently running campaigns, I realized we've played the bulk of the 4E character classes. Here's some of my thoughts to spur any discussion, all representing heroic tier.

Battlerager - Generates temps on a hit, on a miss, regenerates and couple with a dwarf, hits like a truck and surges for absolutely absurd values. AC is totally unimportant. Conditions are the only thing that slow this class down in a fight. Makes other defenders look like paper dolls and our strikers cry. Will never allow in my games again.

Wizard - In the hands of a creative player, awesome. Otherwise, tends to suffer from being from the PHB and not being as well balanced as the classes that have come out since then. The costs of rituals turns one of their key abilities into a gold dump. I've been considering ways to give this class a little help.

Bard - A really well-designed class. Thematically works great, lots of neat abilities. Probably our favorite thus far.

Barbarian - I'm not impressed but when the rolls line up in the character's favor, I've seen the barbarian do some absurd things. Problem is that it happens so rarely and the barbarian striker is overshadowed by the defender battlerager in every battle.

Cunning Rogue - Works well with the bard to move people around, good sustainable damage. Obtaining CA isn't difficult at all with a little thought. Best power to date? "Go For the Eyes!" I laughed myself silly.

Assault Swordmage - Another well-designed class and a lot of fun in the hands of a creative player. Can really screw with the enemies, get free attacks, and put on the hurt. Tough as well with a great AC. Puts the "D" in defender.

Cha Paladin - Be very careful with builds. Pallys still suffer from MAD (multiple attribute deficiency). Our straight Cha pally was a radiant/vulnerability build and it was NASTY. Tough, sticky, and could lay the hurt down. Also could heal. Was a lot of fun. Other builds I'm not so sure about.

Dragon Sorcerer - Player was able to optimize gear for some absurd at-will damage. This class really can put the hurt on. Only saw briefly so not sure if they were a one-trick pony, but you can't argue with the results.

Monk - Also only saw briefly but I really like the PHB3 mechanics. Thematically it doesn't blow my skirt up but mechanically the ability to essentially have two uses (std and movement) for every power is a cool wrinkle. Watched the monk take down 3 non-minions in one attack.

Night Stalker Assassin - One of the least damaging strikers (on average) but they make up for it with some terrific abilities. The at-will teleport is absolute clutch and the ki focus is very handy as well, if you can get one. The controller HP makes them a glass cannon. Setting up shrouds is a little fussy. Subs in for a rogue very well.

Warden - As a primary defender I'm not impressed but they have some very neat abilities. Seem to come into their own a bit later. Not really that tough but can generate some temps or self-healing. Player seems to like it but I'd never play one.

Invoker - Player seems to like it but has a very specific build based on thunder powers and at-wills. Outside of that, doesn't do a whole lot. Not a bad class per se, just not very interesting. Plays more like a weak striker than a controller.

Stalker Shaman - We've all been really impressed by this class. A great mix of offense, blocking (via spirit), and healing. One of our well-rounded characters that always seems to be able to contribute in nearly any situation.

Warden - As a primary defender I'm not impressed but they have some very neat abilities. Seem to come into their own a bit later. Not really that tough but can generate some temps or self-healing. Player seems to like it but I'd never play one.

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I played a Warden from 10-15 or so in a short campaign, by the time they get in the mid teens they are almost impossible to kill. Lots of Regen, lots of abilities that give free healing surges, even a neat power that lets you come back to life from the first time you drop into negs.

[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=20443183#p20443183:3jfpkook said:

Abulia[/url]":3jfpkook]Battlerager - Generates temps on a hit, on a miss, regenerates and couple with a dwarf, hits like a truck and surges for absolutely absurd values. AC is totally unimportant. Conditions are the only thing that slow this class down in a fight. Makes other defenders look like paper dolls and our strikers cry. Will never allow in my games again.

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I’ve never had a battlerager in my game, but didn’t the errata attempt to fix the problem with excessive temporary HP?

Barbarian - I'm not impressed but when the rolls line up in the character's favor, I've seen the barbarian do some absurd things. Problem is that it happens so rarely and the barbarian striker is overshadowed by the defender battlerager in every battle.

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The barbarian in my game put out solid numbers on a fairly regular basis, but he did have 20 Str at level 1 and a fullblade (1d12, high crit). The best friend a barbarian can make is a tactical warlord because commander’s strike + barbarian = ouch.

Cha Paladin - Be very careful with builds. Pallys still suffer from MAD (multiple attribute deficiency). Our straight Cha pally was a radiant/vulnerability build and it was NASTY. Tough, sticky, and could lay the hurt down. Also could heal. Was a lot of fun. Other builds I'm not so sure about.

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Given the weakness of the paladin marking mechanic is, what did your player do to be ‘sticky’?

Stalker Shaman - We've all been really impressed by this class. A great mix of offense, blocking (via spirit), and healing. One of our well-rounded characters that always seems to be able to contribute in nearly any situation.

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I loved playing my bear shaman, but the DM hated it and made it a priority to always kill my bear regardless of the situation (and sometimes even when mechanically it shouldn’t have died).

[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=20443252#p20443252:31li5il1 said:

RDeVoe[/url]":31li5il1]

Warden - As a primary defender I'm not impressed but they have some very neat abilities. Seem to come into their own a bit later. Not really that tough but can generate some temps or self-healing. Player seems to like it but I'd never play one.

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I played a Warden from 10-15 or so in a short campaign, by the time they get in the mid teens they are almost impossible to kill. Lots of Regen, lots of abilities that give free healing surges, even a neat power that lets you come back to life from the first time you drop into negs.

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Their punishment mechanic is also outstanding.

kenada":3ans1zdi said:

I try to allow my players a fair amount of lattitude in investigating an upcoming encounter and let them banter between (or during) encounters.

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They weren’t interested in this either.

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That sucks. What are your players interested in doing?


Last session, I took the Ironfell mines from the SoW adventure and re-skinned it for my own needs. The party spent a lot of effort investigating the front enterance. Untimatly, they filled it with fog while the tiefling teleported in to try to pick the locks on the doors. (there were none, it was barred from the other side). I let them sweat it for a few turns, and then once a second character (the druid) was in, the defenders woke up and dropped the second portcutlass cutting the party in half, then opened fire through the murder holes in the ceiling. The resulting raw panic was glorious to behold. The dragonborn lifted the portcutlass, and the druid and tiefling ran like little chickens.

They decided against taking the direct approach and instead tried to sneak through the harpy nest. Tried being the operative word. Dragonborn couldn't make a stealth check to save his scaly hide, much fun was had.



To extend Abulias post here are my observations based on my games.
Tiefling Star Pact Warlock
If I can snare this guy, I can hit him. Otherwise he *bamfs* all over the battlefield and does silly single target damage.

Half-Elf Ranger (archer)
Twin Strike is pretty powerful, granting an at-will double attack. Due to the dice gods however, this usually translates to one attack hitting, which makes him a constant source of damage. Not quite as crazy as the tiefling, but when the stars align, he can do some nice stuff.

Razerclaw Shifter Druid (Beast form focus)
This character acts as a minion killer and general troubleshooter. Her mobility is insane, so she spends a lot of time bouncing around the battlefield putting out fires. Dragonborn flanked? She's there with a Savage Rend to slide a flanker away. Minions harassing the ranger? Flame Seed. Monster a little hard to hit? Pounce it. (CA to the party for a round.)

Dragonboarn STR Pally
Not overly sticky, but he's geared himself more striker-ish. However, he can take as good as he gets and is very hard to bring down.

Thunderborn Minotaur Barbarian
Lots of triggered actions so less control of his fate. However, when he hits, you know you've been hit. Usually has an epic moment in each encounter. Total glass cannon. See the post kenada linked above for an example of an Epic Moment.

Dwarven Bard
At-will push and pulls. Good battlefield control. Healing on the side doesn't hurt.

The problem is that building a working virtual world is either extremely time-consuming or so simplistic it doesn't give you any advantage over doing it "the good old way".

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Well that's why I want to take the virtual world off the DM's workload and just let Wizards handle the maps and coding, and let a combination of Wizards and the general MMO player community handle the atmosphere. They can just say "Here's Eberron. Go play." and provide some drag-and-drop tools for DM players to manage combats that only affect/are visible by the PCs in that DM's party.

Think about it: you want to start your adventure in a tavern where the maid will let down a hint to the players about a dwarf having some kind trouble in the first floor (I know it's stupid: who'd help a dwarf ). To set that up in a virtual world, you'll need, at best, several minute for selecting the proper map, then the proper building bricks (A tavern with two floors) then adding the NPCs (a maid, a dwarf and a number of patrons).

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Under my concept, there'd be no map-selecting. The map is static, pre-generated. If you want your players to go to a tavern to query a barmaid, they have to walk to the Salty Slug tavern. No brick-selecting, no map-selecting, no NPC generation. They'd already be there. The DM could take control of NPCs on an instanced basis to handle roleplay. It could all be done on the fly with the proper tools, or could be saved ahead of time on the DM's account.

That, plus the fact that you wouldn't share all the pleasures of physical presence, the ability to get into charater as much or as little as you feel like...

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Made up for by the increased access to gaming opportunities. You could still do your monthly in-person game, but supplement it with mid-week scenes for an hour or two at a time, or play a whole new Thursday night campaign without having to leave the house. Every single person in my campaign would jump all over this. Anyway, it's just wishful thinking.

I've had a battlerager in my group since we started running 4e (both pre- and post-errata) and the BR is absurdly OP. Dwarf with mordenkrad, impossible to bring down and routinely doing striker-levels of damage.

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I play it the opposite way, instead of striker-level offensive output, I build around the temp HP generation in the defender role. At eighth level he effectively has damage reduction 8 and a jacked up AC, and is basically immune to minions. I loaded up on AoE attacks, so I just hold the entire enemy party for two or three rounds and eat 15 attacks while my party picks off the highest-damage foes.

[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=20443326#p20443326:3sb2osf0 said:

RaveBomb[/url]":3sb2osf0]

kenada":3sb2osf0 said:

I try to allow my players a fair amount of lattitude in investigating an upcoming encounter and let them banter between (or during) encounters.

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They weren’t interested in this either.

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That sucks. What are your players interested in doing?

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That’s a good question. After I started getting complaints from the poisonous player about combat, I called the whole thing off.

Last session, I took the Ironfell mines from the SoW adventure and re-skinned it for my own needs.

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This was the last adventure I ran for my group. The problem I have with Wizards’s APs is that they are meant to be adaptable, which means that they only link together weakly. I very much prefer the integration of the Paizo APs.

The party spent a lot of effort investigating the front enterance.

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My party spent none, and I had to prod them into moving forward. I have no idea why they weren’t take initiative at all. D&D does not work if the party is unwilling to play along with the game.

Untimatly, they filled it with fog while the tiefling teleported in to try to pick the locks on the doors. (there were none, it was barred from the other side). I let them sweat it for a few turns, and then once a second character (the druid) was in, the defenders woke up and dropped the second portcutlass cutting the party in half, then opened fire through the murder holes in the ceiling. The resulting raw panic was glorious to behold. The dragonborn lifted the portcutlass, and the druid and tiefling ran like little chickens.

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My party spotted the second portcullis, and the dragonborn barbarian tried to attack it by leaping at it. When it failed, I had the trogs drop it to isolate him from the group. He’s crazy strong, so he had no problem lifting it up to get everyone inside to engage the trogs.

They decided against taking the direct approach and instead tried to sneak through the harpy nest. Tried being the operative word. Dragonborn couldn't make a stealth check to save his scaly hide, much fun was had.

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Mine did too, but he kept announcing that he was sneaking. They didn’t like like the harpy fight though. They whined about my tactics (of using alluring song to keep them from being able to effectively focus fire) instead of adapting to the fight.

Interesting. Two seperate attempts at the same(ish) encounter, two totally different results.

The harpy nest was amusing.
The tiefling *bamfed* himself to the top of the wall with rope in hand. He then set it and quietly lowered it down for the ranger and dragonborn. The druid decided to take a more direct approach. She went cat and acrobatic-ed herself up the wall. The ranger went up the rope with ease, while the dragonborn simply couldn't figure out what a rope was even for. (Athletics: 1, Stealth 1, (DM marks one failure in secret skill challenge). Next round, repeat.) I have never seen so many ones in a row.

The final failure was from the druid of all people. As she got to the top, she rolled a 1 for her stealth check. I figured that the edge was a little crumbly and rained rocks down on the platemail drum that was the dragonborn.

As combat started, the dragonborn's rolls changed and he basiclly flew up the rope. They did not like the various songs the harpies were playing. While the encounter didn't strain them resource wise, they really didn't like harpies by the end of it.

[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=20443429#p20443429:2dupf2y1 said:

RaveBomb[/url]":2dupf2y1]Interesting. Two seperate attempts at the same(ish) encounter, two totally different results.

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Everyone in mine hung back by the eastern doorway in the lower room while the dragonborn barbarian ‘snuck’ across it. About halfway, a carrion crawler burst out of the sand pile and attacked him.

While the party rushed the the carrion crawler, the harpies joined the fray. Seeing that there were scary dragon things below (and dragon things breath fire), they spread out around the perimeter of the room and used alluring song to draw their enemies close to the carrion crawler and keep each other safe.

As combat started, the dragonborn's rolls changed and he basiclly flew up the rope. They did not like the various songs the harpies were playing. While the encounter didn't strain them resource wise, they really didn't like harpies by the end of it.

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Depending on how they are run, harpies can be really awful to fight against. I wasn’t taking the (apparently common) approach of having their alluring song hit all creatures in its range (because I treat monster powers without a target list as targeting only one creature), so I didn’t think they was that bad. However, the poisonous player demanded that they be allowed to spend a couple of healing surges and skip the fight. I think he didn’t like being in a situation where his character couldn’t dominate.

However, the poisonous player demanded that they be allowed to spend a couple of healing surges and skip the fight.

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I think my responst to that would be "Thanks for playing, the door is on your left."

EDIT: From the compendium.

Alluring Song Close burst 10; (does stuff)

Burst: A burst starts in an origin square and extends in all directions to a specified number of squares from the origin square.

Close: Close burst uses your space as its origin square. When you make a close attack, you make a separate attack roll against each target in the area of effect, but you make a single damage roll that affects all the targets.


That's pretty clear to me. The song from one harpy would impact everyone within 10 of it.

[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=20443602#p20443602:3sy94upn said:

RaveBomb[/url]":3sy94upn]

However, the poisonous player demanded that they be allowed to spend a couple of healing surges and skip the fight.

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I think my responst to that would be "Thanks for playing, the door is on your left."

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I only had three players, so I had been putting up with his nonsense for a while out of preference for keeping the game going, but that comment and a few other things that session made me realize it wasn’t worth it. I suppose I could have stuck it out with two players (and some companion characters), but part of what makes D&D fun is the party dynamic. Two players is just too few for D&D IMO.

I have no idea why they weren’t take initiative at all. D&D does not work if the party is unwilling to play along with the game.

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Does any Table Top RPG?

kenada":w5stpfh2 said:

I’m going to take a break from DMing for a while and play in another 4e game with some friends I haven’t seen for a while. I’m thinking of being a shardmind psion. I might also be getting in on an L5R game as well. :bigdumbgrin:

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L5R rocks! definitely a different vibe than DnD For example, you don't just loot a new weapon and go "woohoo!" because the sword you carry is your family's sword and you must honor it. Also there is no looting the dead cause that is dishonorable and only the unclean do it

[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=20443663#p20443663:vbvspqvi said:

RDeVoe[/url]":vbvspqvi]

I have no idea why they weren’t take initiative at all. D&D does not work if the party is unwilling to play along with the game.

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Does any Table Top RPG?

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True. RPGs really need player participation to work.

I'm in three concurrent campaigns, but last weekend's game night was canceled due to Lost. The near universal complaints about the finale is bittersweet retribution for their misplaced priorities.

First campaign is a standard run; Gnome Fey Warlock. It is a blast: he's nearly untouchable and dishes out a fair amount of damage.

Second campaign is a custom horror world. Started with a Gnome Whirlwind Barbarian but will be switching him out for a Gnome Telepath Psion. Can't recall the party make-up but I'm a hair from giving up on this character due to poor Small weapon selection and dice. I started off with handaxes (Whirlwind barbs are pseudo-controllers if you build them with tons of multitarget attacks) but switched up to Rapiers for d8s instead ... but Rapiers just don't feel right. And he's weak on single target fights.

Third campaign is another custom run. Gnome Illusionist Wizard. He's damn handy -- the party has two defenders (though one is a multiclass) and the rest are Strikers and has no Leader. Loving the at-will AoE utility spells (i.e., targets can't take Attacks of Opportunity and other handy stuff).

There was a mini-campaign using the online generator since there was only me, another player, and the DM that night. I created a Gnome Pacifist Cleric (can't recall the actual build) to play beside the Wizard mentioned above. I'd love to get that Cleric in on the other campaigns, but they stories for those characters are too interesting to let go. Maybe I'll be willing to forgo extra loot or something if I can go on playing both a cleric and a wizard in the same campaign, somehow.

Ah, now I understand.

I've played with as low as three (they did the second level of Keep on the Shadowfell), but I don't think I could go any lower. I'd seriously have to look at the encounter balance and the party dynamics. Likewise, I don't know that I'd ever do more then 5 players. My personal sweet spot seems to be 4.

Having said that, I've been tapped to DM a table for the Dark Sun Encounters, where I might get as many as six players.

This brings me to another point. Last session, the party (finally) rescued a plot NPC Monk. Next session they're going to work through a combat intensive dungeon with him in tow, in order to get to safety. Any suggestions on how to run him? I've statted him up as a human monk, and given him a couple powers (1 at will, 1 encounter). Should I simply give him a simple "program" to follow? IE: Move to closest enemy and hit it. Should I turn him over to a player to run? Maybe stick with at-wills, unless someone calls for something bigger?

[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=20443754#p20443754:2xysesnf said:

RaveBomb[/url]":2xysesnf]This brings me to another point. Last session, the party (finally) rescued a plot NPC Monk. Next session they're going to work through a combat intensive dungeon with him in tow, in order to get to safety. Any suggestions on how to run him? I've statted him up as a human monk, and given him a couple powers (1 at will, 1 encounter). Should I simply give him a simple "program" to follow? IE: Move to closest enemy and hit it. Should I turn him over to a player to run? Maybe stick with at-wills, unless someone calls for something bigger?

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I usually turn NPCs over to a player to run. Hopefully, someone volunteers.

Any suggestions on how to run him?

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This is probably what I would do: Give him two at-wills for a little variety, but skip encounter powers so I won't have to bother tracking usage or power balancing. No AP, unlimited healing surges. Attack closest foe unless a PC instructs otherwise, but occasionally (once every other fight) do something super-retarded (get cornered/surrounded, charge off alone, fall into a trap) to force the PCs to come protect/rescue him.

Granted it's the standard escort mission cliche, but I'd rather he provide a little bit of combat drama than just be some PC's minion.

I'd figure out what sort of personality you want him to have and have his fighting style and what he does in combat reflect that.

Is he a brash young fighter? Have him charge head first into groups.

Is he a wise master type? Have him do flanking moves that sets up the players to really hammer foes.

Is he a coward? Have him stay out of combat unless "forced" to fight.

When it comes to running NPC's I think, in general, it's a bad idea to let PC's run them in combat. The combat should be as much of a chance to RP with the NPC as just talking to them. The big rule for NPC's in combat I have is "No matter what, the NPC should not be the focus of the fight or take away from the PC's winning the battle."

I've been in games where the GM basically had God-Like NPC's that were in effect his character who were better then the players in all ways in combat. It sucked.

Man, this thread makes me miss tabletop RPGs. Had good fun with a 3.5 campaign and about the first third of Keep on the Shadowfell 4E. Had a human rogue, dagger user. When played right, daggers were crazy- +4 weapon bonus (I think), +4 dex bonus, +2 sneak attack bonus... not great damage, though. Our party also had a melee ranger, so the two of us would sneak ahead to kill sentries, etc. Sometimes left out our dragonborn paladin dwarven cleric, but being able to sneak up on a guy and shank him before he can call for help was pretty awesome.

Sadly, not enough geek friends who'd be willing to play in my current town, and I'm not sure I'm comfortable just finding random folks to play with. I even put together the start of a campaign, but folks who had initially expressed interest got cold feet. Maybe I can run it online or something.

EDIT: Oh, regarding NPCs. Personally, I'd say, control him yourself, play him to character, but don't let him get too involved. I think it's perfectly okay to have him "fighting" a guy for a few rounds with fudged dice rolls to keep him out of the players' hair and not steal any of their thunder- and save time- but I suppose it depends on the flavor of the game and how your players feel about combat and story (IE, is combat a serious business thing they want to be played "fair", or are they okay with the monk fighting for flavor).

RDeVoe":2u292k18 said:

I'm running a 4th Ed Future Game, we just got to the 2nd game so it's sort of hard to tell how things are going to go. In the first game they came into a great deal of money, that they spent buying themselves a really pimped out merchant ship. Then they went and ignored all the missions that required a cool ship, and instead took a mission that was almost entirely planet based.

There was much WTF were we thinking at the start of the next game when they realized that out of the 10 million credits they got, they spent 9.9 million on the ship and didn't have enough left over to really get themselves better out of ship gear.

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What game is this? I'm thinking of starting a scifi campaign but haven't decided on a system (something d20ish would be awesome)

What game is this? I'm thinking of starting a scifi campaign but haven't decided on a system (something d20ish would be awesome)

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4th Ed D&D with my own custom setting.

Funny thing about the game... the party learned that it's not really productive to hunt Squirrels with a .50 Sniper Rifle, or with a huge tricked out modern Crossbow. The little guys don't have much left after being hit for 18+ points of damage.

Of course the one guys back up weapon was a tire iron, so that was pretty nasty as well when he managed to catch up to one.

Those are all good suggestions.

A little more fluff here:
The monk is a childhood friend of one of the druid. He left the shifter city of Xanadu to warn her that her stepmom was up to Bad Things. Along the way he got himself captured. When the PCs learned of this, they came a'running. Now they're about to work their way through my version of The Ways (cribbed from the Wheel of Time series) in order to get to Xanadu on time.

As he's been imprisioned for a couple of weeks, I'll have him either hang back with the ranged combantants, or work with the druid "troubleshooting".

I think I'll run him, but with the understanding that he'll take orders from the PCs. I'm fairly paranoid of him stealing the spotlight, and certainly have no plans to keep him around longer then the story demands. As such, I'm already working on his exit.

EDIT: Random rules question:
What happens when you prone an enemy that is floating at the 5 feetish mark? Do they take falling damage?

If he's been imprisoned for a while, just have him be exhausted, maybe malnourished. Could have NPCs gravitate toward him as a weak target, which could help change combat dynamics. Just make sure he doesn't walk very slowly from point to point or your players will fucking kill you for making a P&P version of a MMORPG escort quest.

RaveBomb":z5m9i5ko said:

EDIT: Random rules question:
What happens when you prone a floating enemy? Do they take falling damage?

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An enemy that can fly, if knocked prone must attempt to land in the square they are over. They are allowed to move safely up to their movement towards the ground. If they are higher up then their base movement, after the move they take falling damage.

Example: Target is 200' in the air, and is knocked prone. His movement is 50'. He safetly drops to 150'... then takes 150' worth of falling damage.

((I did this to a dragon that was attacking the party... Twice.))

What about teleportation and falling? I allowed the tiefling to save himself once using this method and since then the tactic has become his go-to for long drops. He doesn't bother with ropes or anything, just swan dives down and *bamfs* the last 10 feet.