The Adventure Games thread

I'm still a fan of this genre, even thought it's very hard to find an adventure game that's well done. I'll start off this thread (that's likely to die a quick death) with a review of the newly released:

The Vanishing of Ethan Carter (spoiler free).

Indie
My last review of an indie developer adventure game was for Primordia. The expected scope for an indie game is usually small. The Vanishing of Ethan Carter's execution feels like a much larger game. Just ignore the indie title.

The Look
This is usually the first thing you hear about this game. The game uses 7+ gigs for textures, which is almost the entire size of the game. It looks like a painting and can get away showing overly lush environments because of the game type - first person adventure. Just search for screenshots; it's an Unreal engine game using very high res textures.

The Story
The story is told minimally; there's no filler. Dialog is sparse and to the point - good. Most adventures game drown the player with walls of dialog so the important stuff is hard to find. In this game, you experience the story instead of reading about it. This is probably the best executed part of the game and it's the reward for solving puzzles. There is reading in the game, but it's linked to major events and has an important context.

The Style
It's similar to Dear Esther, but it's an actual game. There's a lot of walking around and discovering, but it doesn't lack actual interaction with the game world.

Gameplay
The game begins with a message warning you it will not hold your hand. To do this successfully, the game better be damn intuitive. Some of the game's mechanics work this way. It's the first-person version of a point and click game, but it's far from traditional. Clicking on an items gives you a glimpse into the mind of your character. Labels and questions pop up and drift around an item, telling the player what the character is thinking about.

The lack of any hand-holding also works against the game. It lets you progress almost all the way through the gameworld without actually doing anything. There's almost no key-gate puzzles. So, there's no way to test if the player knows or understands the basic mechanics of the game. Discovery of how the game works is very hit-or-miss.

Time 'till Walkthrough
As mentioned in the Primorida review (linked above), you can gauge how well an adventure game works by how long it takes you to seek out help. After reaching the fifth puzzle, with only two of them solved, it was time to seek out a walkthrough. The cause was obtuse game mechanics that were discovered very early, but not understood.

The game isn't hard because of the puzzles. Once again, the Primorida review mentions the biggest problem in all adventure games: motivation. The "point to inspect" mechanic works very well and the motivation is clear: you and your Detective character have a desire to discover information. The visualization and sound cues of the mechanics are the only tools available for gathering information about how the game works. One of the earliest puzzles used a visualization that implied progress was being made. The motivation was to seek out similar items until the visualization shows 100% completion.

The hard-to-get mechanics don't conceptualize an idea very well, so there's no clear motivation. Without it, there's no reason not to move forward and expect items for a puzzle may be found much later in the game. Figuring out the mechanics will probably be the biggest stumbling block for most players and the source of much frustration. If you want to avoid the major walkthrough spoilers, here's some hints about the mechanics that are spoilerish:
'Touch' - a gate that shows progress. 'Fix' - The detective doesn't just want to find clues, he wants to recreate the scene. 'Question??' - think radar, but don't walk.

Overall
The game does a damn good job of presenting a fantastical story where you feel like part of it.

Some of the game mechanics will make some people say "how the hell was I supposed to know that?". It's the only significant negative thing about the game.

The game can be finished in one or two sessions (4 hours), so the 20 dollar prices tag is OK, but 10 bucks feels like a better price.
 

EtherealGoddess

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[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27703989#p27703989:17624bgj said:
Jackass JoeJoe[/url]":17624bgj]
Some of the game mechanics will make some people say "how the hell was I supposed to know that?". It's the only significant negative thing about the game.
Another significant negative for me was after an hour it felt like there was too much time spent walking between one plot-significant area to another. The world is very stunning (especially given its genre), but it wasn't that rewarding to wander off the beaten path because Paul's dialogue or story-filling-in clues were rather sparse (or you'd be led to them by solving minor puzzles).

That said, I did enjoy it overall and agree that most people would probably feel best about buying it on sale.
 
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27703989#p27703989:a1p4x63k said:
Jackass JoeJoe[/url]":a1p4x63k]I'm still a fan of this genre, even thought it's very hard to find an adventure game that's well done...
Does that include the recent TellTale games, or do you think Walking Dead and Wolf Among Us are more action games than adventure games? I thought Wolf Among Us started off incredibly strong and became somewhat less compelling as it went on, but was still fantastic overall, with great characters and voice acting, an art style that was perfect for the material, and really interesting choices.

Boring personal history of playing adventure games follows, which I realized isn't really relevant after I finished typing it all out.
I grew up on Infocom text adventures, and have played a lot of the more recent non-commercial text adventures, which have the freedom to be very personal, idiosyncratic works since no one expects them to make money. I loved the Gabriel Knight series, and was obsessed with Myst* through Myst IV, and played a lot of the Myst-likes (Lighthouse, Last Express, Morpheus, Journeyman, Starship Titanic, ...). I've also picked up a number of classic adventure games on Steam during sales (Syberias, Broken Swords, The Dig, etc.), and I've also got an unplayed-so-far copy of Broken Age in my Steam library, but I have to admit that when I sit down to play a game these days I tend to go for something a little less point-and-clicky. Wolf Among Us fit that bill, as did Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy.

Despite the lack of much in the way of puzzles or an inventory, I loved the way Dear Esther slowly unfolded its back story, and in a similar vein Gone Home was pretty handily the most emotionally involving game I've ever played (followed by Brothers, but with a good distance between them). I've heard really interesting things about Gemini Rue, and will probably pick it up at some point, but given my current unplayed backlog it's very possible that I'll never actually get around to playing it.

Which I guess boils down to: yes, I love adventure games, but I rarely play them nowadays. You'd think realizing that would make me want to dive into one this weekend, but I just got a copy of Shadow of Mordor....

*those who loved Riven should check out this fan recreation of a small section of it, done in Unreal IV. It looks like what I remember the game to look like, which is to say far, far better than the game actually looked like.
 
Yeah I don't know that I'd agree with the notion that it's hard to find good adventure games. Sure, they're not as plentiful as RPGs or shooters, but Kentucky Route Zero, Broken Age, Broken Sword 5 and Deponia have all had episodes released in the last year that I'd put in the good-to-great category, and with ASoIaF due to get the TellTale treatment soon and a new Syberia on the horizon, I think there's chances for some more good ones.
 

Kosuno

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[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27708675#p27708675:1wkismsk said:
Workaround[/url]":1wkismsk]Yeah I don't know that I'd agree with the notion that it's hard to find good adventure games. Sure, they're not as plentiful as RPGs or shooters, but Kentucky Route Zero, Broken Age, Broken Sword 5 and Deponia have all had episodes released in the last year that I'd put in the good-to-great category, and with ASoIaF due to get the TellTale treatment soon and a new Syberia on the horizon, I think there's chances for some more good ones.

The key adjective is good.

Kentucky Route Zero is pretty damn amazing and I guess if I had to label it something it would be an adventure game but it is far more a philosophical experience than a game. There are couple puzzles but not enough to lend the weight of definition.

Broken Age is sitting in my huge catalog of 'games to play'. Sigh.

I loved Deponias visuals and such but I'd say it was mediocre. The second one was a mess.

At any rate the genre does seem to be having a renaissance! So that's good.

... A lot of the older adventure games I think are viewed with rose colored glasses as well. I recently got around to playing The Dig and I thought it was seriously cliche with boring puzzles. I have no idea why people love it.

The first Gabriel Knight was a defining moment in my young adulthood and gaming career. Maybe my expectations are just reaching for a bar too high.
 
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27710379#p27710379:29xjizev said:
Kosuno[/url]":29xjizev]The first Gabriel Knight was a defining moment in my young adulthood and gaming career. Maybe my expectations are just reaching for a bar too high.
Even with rose-colored glasses, the acting in Gabriel Knight 2 is fingernails-on-a-chalkboard terrible. But the story it told was great - I love a thriller that weaves its way in and out of actual history (see Cryptonomicon, DaVinci Code, the Uncharted series, and Assassin's Creed 2 for examples both good and cheesy), and Jane Jensen does that really well. I doubt I'd want to play it again, but I'm incredibly glad I played it when I did.

Last Express, though, is a game that holds up really well - the stylization keeps it from seeming dated, and there's a huge wealth of material going on in that train that you can never see all of in one playthrough. It's off topic, but speaking of Last Express and historical thrillers, Jordan Mechner, the guy behind Last Express, did a graphic novel that's essentially a historical heist film involving the Crusades, Templars, and the Inquisition. It's a fun read.
 
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27708321#p27708321:n6dsx60o said:
Evan E[/url]":n6dsx60o]
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27703989#p27703989:n6dsx60o said:
Jackass JoeJoe[/url]":n6dsx60o]I'm still a fan of this genre, even thought it's very hard to find an adventure game that's well done...
Does that include the recent TellTale games, or do you think Walking Dead and Wolf Among Us are more action games than adventure games? [/spoiler]

I've played quite a few TellTale games that ranged from just OK to well done. The Walking Dead is a well done adventure with some quick-time events. A purist might not consider them just adventure games, but I do. They just also contain some action tropes.

My favorite most-recent adventure game is Heavy Rain and that's far from a pure adventure game.
 
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27710379#p27710379:u76wzlaf said:
Kosuno[/url]":u76wzlaf]
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27708675#p27708675:u76wzlaf said:
Workaround[/url]":u76wzlaf]Yeah I don't know that I'd agree with the notion that it's hard to find good adventure games. Sure, they're not as plentiful as RPGs or shooters, but Kentucky Route Zero, Broken Age, Broken Sword 5 and Deponia have all had episodes released in the last year that I'd put in the good-to-great category, and with ASoIaF due to get the TellTale treatment soon and a new Syberia on the horizon, I think there's chances for some more good ones.

The key adjective is good.

Kentucky Route Zero is pretty damn amazing and I guess if I had to label it something it would be an adventure game but it is far more a philosophical experience than a game. There are couple puzzles but not enough to lend the weight of definition.

Broken Age is sitting in my huge catalog of 'games to play'. Sigh.

I loved Deponias visuals and such but I'd say it was mediocre. The second one was a mess.

At any rate the genre does seem to be having a renaissance! So that's good.

... A lot of the older adventure games I think are viewed with rose colored glasses as well. I recently got around to playing The Dig and I thought it was seriously cliche with boring puzzles. I have no idea why people love it.

The first Gabriel Knight was a defining moment in my young adulthood and gaming career. Maybe my expectations are just reaching for a bar too high.

Yeah the second Deponia was pretty bad. I enjoyed the third one though - I picked the whole thing up as a pack. I guess what is your definition then? If you have a hard time putting KRZ in the adventure game category, maybe you're looking for something too specific.

I got the same adventure game brain-click from Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs, as it's quite story-heavy and puzzle-heavy, though it doesn't look like a classic adventure game. Didn't like it, but I hate horror for the most part. Two games I did love that I'd put in the same vein would be Antichamber and the Stanley Parable. Puzzle-heavy world exploring with interesting stories, even if they're not exactly like the old LucasArts games or Myst. There's also a ton of very adventure game-y visual novels that make their way to the US, generally on the Nintendo DS. Professor Layton is the big series (and the only one I've played on the DS), but I know there's a ton more. If you have don't have a DS but you do have an iDevice, check out 999:Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors. It's a few years old on the DS but it just got released on IOS this year.

edit: Heck, there's an acclaimed puzzle-adventure game on sale on Steam today: Valiant Hearts. I have it on my wishlist, I might need to pick it up.
 
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27704185#p27704185:2rv3jxv0 said:
EtherealGoddess[/url]":2rv3jxv0]
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27703989#p27703989:2rv3jxv0 said:
Jackass JoeJoe[/url]":2rv3jxv0]
Some of the game mechanics will make some people say "how the hell was I supposed to know that?". It's the only significant negative thing about the game.
Another significant negative for me was after an hour it felt like there was too much time spent walking between one plot-significant area to another...

That's the point I took a peek at a walkthrough. I had walked a significant way but didn't feel like I had made progress. That's when I figured out I hadn't actually finished 3 of the 5 puzzles.

I started liberally using the Run button at that point.
 

EtherealGoddess

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[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27710379#p27710379:sphgm8i1 said:
Kosuno[/url]":sphgm8i1]
The key adjective is good.
What's funny to me is that the most maligned (rightly IMO) mechanic of pixel hunting has been distilled into its own sub-genre, the Hidden Object Game.

... A lot of the older adventure games I think are viewed with rose colored glasses as well. I recently got around to playing The Dig and I thought it was seriously cliche with boring puzzles. I have no idea why people love it.
I played this ages ago when I was in 4th grade and loved it because I found the puzzles fairly abstract and obtuse which I thought fit the theme of exploring an alien world well. My favorite puzzle is where you literally program a machine to pick up and place a lens. I tried to get my friend into it and she thought it was just as 'bleh' and boring as you did. I guess the writing is cliche and I wouldn't be impressed now, but at the time it was engrossing.

The genre really has progressed in a lot of awesome ways and I don't think it gets enough credit for advancement, text-based parser IF particularly. Superficially, it looks the same to the untrained eye, but Inform and Glulxe make it so you can more easily do complex things. Because of the ability to create libraries for reuse, a lot of the actual interface and conventions have been standardized. One of my favorite advances is the incorporation of hypertext so that the player doesn't have to guess or look up what verbs and objects are available to be interacted with.

Blue Lacuna is a really great example. Not only does it incorporate hypertext, but it has a sort of director AI to give the player environmental hints if they get stuck. It also has an adjustable difficulty so that players who aren't as mechanically minded don't have to solve the puzzles in as great detail like precisely flipping switches or placing gears.

It's also possible to incorporate graphics and audio and Six, a cute hide-and-seek game, is a really good example where their use is actually integral to the game, not just as enhancing decoration.
 

NorrecV

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I recently found out Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis is on Steam now. I'd rather it was on GOG, but eh, take what you can get. This game, and one that I only remember as 'Mad Dog' which was like an arcade shooter, were the first games I remember playing. My brother and I would get stumped, but I think it came with a hint book so we'd use that sometimes to figure out what to do.

I played it on ScummVM a couple years ago and thought it still held up. I always liked how you can choose from 3 paths, sure they all converge on Atlantis, but it gave us an excuse to play it multiple times. I always liked in the cave when you found the guys skeleton, and crushed it with the elevator. That'll teach em! You get to dodge nazi's, escape caves, pilot submarines, BECOME A GOD! My brother and I still joke about Jone's bottomless pants - he can fit an entire hot air balloon in those things.

Fully voiced, different locales... good times. I saw this thread and wanted to throw it a mention. I don't play a lot of point and clicks, but I'll always remember Fate of Atlantis.
 
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27708675#p27708675:knzppm1v said:
Workaround[/url]":knzppm1v]Yeah I don't know that I'd agree with the notion that it's hard to find good adventure games. Sure, they're not as plentiful as RPGs or shooters, but Kentucky Route Zero, Broken Age, Broken Sword 5 and Deponia have all had episodes released in the last year that I'd put in the good-to-great category, and with ASoIaF due to get the TellTale treatment soon and a new Syberia on the horizon, I think there's chances for some more good ones.

I had recently did some digging and saw a few of those titles here: the Aggie Awards. It's hard to know if the "best" game is actually a great game, or just the better of what was available that year. Of the recent titles you've tried, which do you consider a "must play"?
 
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27711385#p27711385:2tmnt33q said:
Jackass JoeJoe[/url]":2tmnt33q]
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27708675#p27708675:2tmnt33q said:
Workaround[/url]":2tmnt33q]Yeah I don't know that I'd agree with the notion that it's hard to find good adventure games. Sure, they're not as plentiful as RPGs or shooters, but Kentucky Route Zero, Broken Age, Broken Sword 5 and Deponia have all had episodes released in the last year that I'd put in the good-to-great category, and with ASoIaF due to get the TellTale treatment soon and a new Syberia on the horizon, I think there's chances for some more good ones.

I had recently did some digging and saw a few of those titles here: the Aggie Awards. It's hard to know if the "best" game is actually a great game, or just the better of what was available that year. Of the recent titles you've tried, which do you consider a "must play"?

Kentucky Route Zero is the only recent one I would say is a must-play. Broken Age ep. 1 is close though. I'm reserving final judgment for ep.2. Broken Sword was meh - decent game mechanics and puzzles but the story was eye-rolling for me. Deponia is hit or miss - when it's good it's a lot of fun, but when it's bad it's awful.
 
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27710379#p27710379:1q6orzor said:
Kosuno[/url]":1q6orzor]
... A lot of the older adventure games I think are viewed with rose colored glasses as well. I recently got around to playing The Dig and I thought it was seriously cliche with boring puzzles. I have no idea why people love it.

That a huge problem - context. Good for then is old-hat now. I remember when Dragon's Lair was the most amazing game. Today, it's so primitive that you can actually play it on a regular old DVD player. And quick-time events are usually a vile interlopers in most games.

-----

Here's a very good example of "this is a good game?" from the same time period.

Classic Game: Dark Seed and playthough

This was one of my first big purchases for the PC - a 60 dollar game. The box is what really grabbed my attention - its pure HR Giger.

If you look at the playthough, the game is tiny. This was back in the DOS 5.0 days, and PCs were extremely limited - with only 1 or 2 megs of RAM. For my version, there was no voice-over, so the video shows an even more advanced version. Primative motion capture animation was also still a new technology (think Mortal Combat) and the graphics for this game were 'amazing' back then.

For this game, if you got stuck you had to call a telephone number for help. It wasn't uncommon for a game to put some bullshit in the game and give you a 900 number for help. In this case, it was just a long distance call, but you could already be in a no-win state in this game and not know it for a long time.

----

This is why I'm skeptical about the Gabriel Knight remake. Updated graphics can't make up for outdated and/or terrible gameplay. Even a well made game like Grim Fandango just had some terrible puzzles - that were purposely illogical just to be whimsical.
 
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27711623#p27711623:21cc4yqp said:
Workaround[/url]":21cc4yqp]Kentucky Route Zero is the only recent one I would say is a must-play.

I'll try this one out very soon. I've already been warned by the Aggie review (and an above post) that the game is more of an experience than a game.
 

Kosuno

Ars Tribunus Militum
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[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27711909#p27711909:dvu3ote3 said:
Jackass JoeJoe[/url]":dvu3ote3]
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27710379#p27710379:dvu3ote3 said:
Kosuno[/url]":dvu3ote3]
... A lot of the older adventure games I think are viewed with rose colored glasses as well. I recently got around to playing The Dig and I thought it was seriously cliche with boring puzzles. I have no idea why people love it.

That a huge problem - context. Good for then is old-hat now. I remember when Dragon's Lair was the most amazing game. Today, it's so primitive that you can actually play it on a regular old DVD player. And quick-time events are usually a vile interlopers in most games.

-----

Here's a very good example of "this is a good game?" from the same time period.

Classic Game: Dark Seed and playthough

This was one of my first big purchases for the PC - a 60 dollar game. The box is what really grabbed my attention - its pure HR Giger.

If you look at the playthough, the game is tiny. This was back in the DOS 5.0 days, and PCs were extremely limited - with only 1 or 2 megs of RAM. For my version, there was no voice-over, so the video shows an even more advanced version. Primative motion capture animation was also still a new technology (think Mortal Combat) and the graphics for this game were 'amazing' back then.

For this game, if you got stuck you had to call a telephone number for help. It wasn't uncommon for a game to put some bullshit in the game and give you a 900 number for help. In this case, it was just a long distance call, but you could already be in a no-win state in this game and not know it for a long time.

----

This is why I'm skeptical about the Gabriel Knight remake. Updated graphics can't make up for outdated and/or terrible gameplay. Even a well made game like Grim Fandango just had some terrible puzzles - that were purposely illogical just to be whimsical.

The first GK was overall very solid. The puzzle and acting issues didn't start cropping up until the sequals. I'll try the remake out but I am sure it will tarnish the rose glasses.

Grim Fandango was just a masterpiece. Yeah it had some odd puzzles but that is one game that I feel one can point to as a great example of 'video games as art'.
 
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27711951#p27711951:3py9uap1 said:
Kosuno[/url]":3py9uap1]Grim Fandango was just a masterpiece. Yeah it had some odd puzzles but that is one game that I feel one can point to as a great example of 'video games as art'.
In case anyone didn't know, Grim Fandango is going to get an HD remastered re-release. At the moment they've only announced a Playstation version, but Tim Schafer phrased that as "for now", and it's pretty hard to believe they won't eventually release it for PC (as has been true of I think all Double Fine games).
 
While the humor can be a little flat at times and the animation doesn't always stand up to the artwork, The Book of Unwritten Tales has a lot of heart behind it. I haven't finished the first one, but I enjoyed what I played of it. There's a kind of spin off and a sequel that's in early-access. Just be careful which you pick up if you do. They sell the "digital extras" (making of book/videos and soundtrack) as DLC and have "collector" versions that include those extras.
 
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27711939#p27711939:1uep58dm said:
Jackass JoeJoe[/url]":1uep58dm]
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27711623#p27711623:1uep58dm said:
Workaround[/url]":1uep58dm]Kentucky Route Zero is the only recent one I would say is a must-play.

I'll try this one out very soon. I've already been warned by the Aggie review (and an above post) that the game is more of an experience than a game.

Kentucky Route Zero - It's an experience for sure.

-The Look-
It's staged like a play with lighting cues to change the focus. The dialog is formatted like a script, so this fits the same theme. Overall, the graphics reminds me of Another World/Flashback, a 20 year old game from a French developer. It's heavily stylized and and completely disguises how primitive it actually is, but this low-fidelity game looks great.

-The Gameplay-
Heavy, heavy dialog trees is the majority of the interactivity. The implementation is done like a "choose your own adventure" book. Quite a bit of this dialog has no purpose; didn't set the scene, didn't build character. Walls of text were substituted for actual content.

This is where the problem lies. It's not clear to what extent your actions influence the game. Nor is it clear what content, if any, you miss because of the choices made. Re-playing part of the game might destroy the "choose your own adventure" illusion.

-The 'Story'-
There isn't a story, like a Lynch movie. There are events and motives, but it's a collection of ideas. Only the MacGuffin of "making a final delivery" ties anything together. This is the experience that's combined to light game mechanics. Some of the scenes are amazing; some are dull a tedious. When everything is working well, the dialog sets the tone and the visuals push the narrative. It has a pure "Wow!" factor. When it doesn't work, it's frustrating. You can't click a random response quick enough to end the babble.

Episodes 1 & 2 are relatively short but somewhat fluff-free. Each is about 50 minutes and doesn't overstay its welcome. Episode 3 is much longer but is filled with so much fluff. There are great scenes in the episode, but it takes quite some time to get to them.

Overall
I can't recommend this game for the story, since there isn't one. I can't recommend it for the gameplay, since it's sparse and possibly a complete illusion. I can, however, say it has some great experiences in the game. The only drawback is the price. At 25 bucks, with 3 of the 5 episodes available, it's high for something so short.
 
Thanks for the review. I looked at it on Steam the other week and wasn't sure whether to go with it or not, but now I definitely will.

Another adventure game coming back is Dreamfall Chapters, third in "The Longest Journey" series. Release date for first part is Oct-21 according the the Kickstarter information I got. The visuals look good to me so far, and fingers crossed that the game will live up to the earlier games.
 

Makadhi

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746
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[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27710379#p27710379:1c7zlp4a said:
Kosuno[/url]":1c7zlp4a]
... A lot of the older adventure games I think are viewed with rose colored glasses as well. I recently got around to playing The Dig and I thought it was seriously cliche with boring puzzles. I have no idea why people love it.
The music. I still have the soundtrack from that.
 
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27723307#p27723307:a0dxl5pm said:
johnny_blvd[/url]":a0dxl5pm]...Another adventure game coming back is Dreamfall Chapters, third in "The Longest Journey" series. Release date for first part is Oct-21 according the the Kickstarter information I got. The visuals look good to me so far, and fingers crossed that the game will live up to the earlier games.


I got Dreamfall cheap during a Steam sale. I had played the original, but completely forgot about it and only barely remembered it when playing it.

8 years is a long time for a cliff-hanger and I expect the game to be released only as a "season pass".
 
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27724193#p27724193:11h198kz said:
Kosuno[/url]":11h198kz]Kentucky Route Zero & story -

The story is in the characters and the characters stories are built by you. The magic of the game is that your agency and personal investment in the dialogue you choose *is* the story.

Code:
#4: Once upon a time there was ___. Every day, ___. One day ___. Because of that, ___. Because of that, ___. Until finally ___.

An orange is a fruit, but the opposite is not true. This is the relationship between story and a series of events. In KRZ, there isn't a "because of that" or a "until finally" most of the time. Story is something that floats over the events and makes the whole larger than the parts. The events have to relate to each other beyond just chronologically. You need set ups, reveals, tension, irony, and the like all to be more than just events. There are some stories within KRZ - or rather scenes - but this is the exception. It's a collection of whimsy, but very light on actual story telling.
 
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27725919#p27725919:2k59ck8h said:
Jackass JoeJoe[/url]":2k59ck8h]An orange is a fruit, but the opposite is not true. This is the relationship between story and a series of events. Blah blah blah...
I'd say you're confusing story with plot, but in the end it's semantics. You can have your version of what it takes to be a story, but some of the rest of us are perfectly okay with a story being a series of unconnected episodes, a quilt of individual scenes that adds up to atmosphere and ambiance.

It's a little reminiscent of how some people insisted Gone Home wasn't a game because you couldn't "win" it. If people want to restrict what a game is to that, you can't really change their mind, but that doesn't mean everyone has to feel that way.

[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27725339#p27725339:2k59ck8h said:
Kosuno[/url]":2k59ck8h]Not sure if this is Steam wide or what, but there was a coupon for 90% off Book of Unwritten Tales in my Steam library today. Puts it at $2.
Definitely not Steam-wide. At that price, I'd pick it up, but I can not has coupon. :(
 

Kosuno

Ars Tribunus Militum
2,659
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27726999#p27726999:1zhwkntt said:
Evan E[/url]":1zhwkntt]
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27725919#p27725919:1zhwkntt said:
Jackass JoeJoe[/url]":1zhwkntt]An orange is a fruit, but the opposite is not true. This is the relationship between story and a series of events. Blah blah blah...
I'd say you're confusing story with plot, but in the end it's semantics. You can have your version of what it takes to be a story, but some of the rest of us are perfectly okay with a story being a series of unconnected episodes, a quilt of individual scenes that adds up to atmosphere and ambiance.

It's a little reminiscent of how some people insisted Gone Home wasn't a game because you couldn't "win" it. If people want to restrict what a game is to that, you can't really change their mind, but that doesn't mean everyone has to feel that way.

[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27725339#p27725339:1zhwkntt said:
Kosuno[/url]":1zhwkntt]Not sure if this is Steam wide or what, but there was a coupon for 90% off Book of Unwritten Tales in my Steam library today. Puts it at $2.
Definitely not Steam-wide. At that price, I'd pick it up, but I can not has coupon. :(

Ah sorry! After I posted this I used it and the purchase resulted in a coupon for Deponia, which made me think it was some sort of customer loyalty promotion. Guess my second impression was right.

On that note... I do have a coupon for Deponia if anyone would like it. I don't recall the discount offhand. Believe it was at least 50%. First Deponia is good. Later ones are avoidable.
 

Kosuno

Ars Tribunus Militum
2,659
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27725919#p27725919:1a8rlsqb said:
Jackass JoeJoe[/url]":1a8rlsqb]
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27724193#p27724193:1a8rlsqb said:
Kosuno[/url]":1a8rlsqb]Kentucky Route Zero & story -

The story is in the characters and the characters stories are built by you. The magic of the game is that your agency and personal investment in the dialogue you choose *is* the story.

Code:
#4: Once upon a time there was ___. Every day, ___. One day ___. Because of that, ___. Because of that, ___. Until finally ___.

An orange is a fruit, but the opposite is not true. This is the relationship between story and a series of events. In KRZ, there isn't a "because of that" or a "until finally" most of the time. Story is something that floats over the events and makes the whole larger than the parts. The events have to relate to each other beyond just chronologically. You need set ups, reveals, tension, irony, and the like all to be more than just events. There are some stories within KRZ - or rather scenes - but this is the exception. It's a collection of whimsy, but very light on actual story telling.

You live in your self-circumscribed box and I'll continue to enjoy stories of all shapes and sizes.
 
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27726999#p27726999:6cn39bev said:
Evan E[/url]":6cn39bev]
I'd say you're confusing story with plot, but in the end it's semantics. You can have your version of what it takes to be a story, but some of the rest of us are perfectly okay with a story being a series of unconnected episodes, a quilt of individual scenes that adds up to atmosphere and ambiance.

Plot is the series of interconnected events. A plot can be as simple as an outline.

Story is the telling of the events.

ORANGE:FRUIT - see my jenyuus? It's not a "my version of", it's what actually is.



---

The purpose of each is hugely different: plot connects, story entertains.

Atmosphere and ambiance surely can make things entertaining, but no plot means no story. I'd happily concede KRZ is a collection of scenes/incomplete stories. Sometimes, not often, KRZ does fill in the blank for 'Because of this' and tells a story.
 
The 'Resonance' bite-tongue review
========================================

TL;DR - It's a damn well made retro-style adventure game that I also hate.

Ambiance
This is done well. The music is great in this game and the retro-graphics sometimes look too good for a low-rez game. During one intro scene, there was actual camera pans used - stylish.

Just plug your ears for the dialog. It's horrific. The voice acting is cartoonish and seems to matches the style of game, so it's hard to fault it. The material just doesn't leave room for anything interesting from the performances.

Multiple Characters
You end up playing several characters, each with separate memories and inventories. At first, the idea is introduced in a clever way by playing different timelines. This mechanic is quickly removed and it just turns into the old 'one guy turns the key' and 'one guy pulls the level' puzzles. It's a novelty added to the game that just makes tasks tedious.

One positive for this mechanic is separate memories/inventories. It does make sifting through the clues simpler when a puzzle uses a specific character.

Dying
Like an old Sierra adventure game, you will die. Unlike an old Sierra game, death is not often and you're not punished for forgetting to use/abuse the save-game menu. The game handles death in a way that won't anger and there is also an auto-save feature.

Motivation
Why should any character go rummaging through trash or pick up duct tape? Why would you ask every single question you can think of to a complete stranger? Because it's an adventure game and you're trained to do it.

'Resonance' attempted to solve one of the biggest problems in adventure games; solving a puzzle randomly or by brute force. 'Papers, Please' succeeded in this task, where Resonance didn't quite make it. Both games solve this issue by making you state a motivation for a choice.

Resonance did something that needed to be done a long time ago. The game needs a way for you to peek inside the head of a character. A system of short-term and long-term memory slots is used to do this. The items in the slots can be used in dialog trees to open hidden options or to jog your memory about past dialog or events. This memory system just isn't done well.

For example, one task in this game is to retrieve a set of blueprints. The problem is that you may have several memories and inventory items specific to blueprints that could be used to trigger an event. If you use the wrong one on the right person, it's quite easy to assume this isn't how the puzzle is solved. You can (and likely will) just resort to using every thing in your inventory and your memory system brute force -- it's devolves into random puzzle solving just done differently.

Puzzles
The "Time 'till Walkthrough" for this game is frustratingly short. Since just about any object or memory can trigger something new from an NPC, the options are too numerous. Just about every key-gate puzzle in the game is a person, so progressing is frustrating. It's often easier to think "how would the developer want this puzzle solved" than it is to attack the puzzle with logic.

The puzzles in the game can't, however, be labeled as illogical. That's not quite the right word -- unintutive fits better. When the solution is found (or looked up online), they do make some logical sense most of the time. The problem is that the puzzles are purposely heavily obscured. Like the games of the time Resonance is imitating, there is a long chain of improbable events, clues, and items that must be used to solve a puzzle. To confuse the issue, the game sets up several items and dialog trees in each scene that have absolutely no purpose. You can drag items into short-term memory slots just in case they may be used in a later dialog tree, but it's nothing more than busy work.

Overall
It's 10 bucks. The frustrating old-school puzzles, not the price, is keystone. I hated quite a few of the puzzles, so no price range is reasonable for me. If you don't mind these styles of puzzles, 5 to 10 bucks is a fine price.
 
I found a leaked review for Gabriel Knight Sins of the Father 20th Anniversary Edition. The site has removed the review, most probably because it was released too early. The TL;DR summary is this:
It is superior to the original game at a glance, and I believe it's a strong game in its own right.
The reviewer never played the original, and this is the viewpoint I'm interested in.
 
The Gabriel Knight Sins of the Father 20th Anniversary Edition I've played 3 hours (p)review (and I'm still only on Day 2):

Sound
The music is midi, but it's rendered with some quality tone generators for this remake. It reminds me of music done by Nintendo on the Wii - something they do well.

Voice
The first words out of Gabriel were harsh. It sounded like a joke it was so bad. It improves quickly, but the tone is still cartoonish for all the characters and the narrator. Gabriel sounds like a Brit trying to do a Lousiana accent -- think True Blood mixed with Foghorn Leghorn.

There's so much dialog, that I've already began making liberal use of the skip feature. "Essential" dialog choices are in yellow (or so I've read). This should help separate the chaff from the wheat.

The "click on something to hear a description of it" mechanic hasn't aged well. I'm just skipping items that aren't useable.

Look
The look matches the tone of voice; a bit cartoony. It still looks good.

The cutscenes are motion comics and nicely done.

Play
From what I've read, there are only minor changes to the gameplay, so it's very old-school. I've already picked up a bunch of inventory items for exactly no reason - other than "because adventure game". There are tons of things to click on for the sole purpose of having a character do a one-liner quip. Once nice touch to keep this from being maddening is you can show labels for all clickable items on demand.

If it wasn't for the integrated journal and the hint system, the gameplay would stink. The journal helps guide you toward goals by featuring important discoveries, but the actual game doesn't. It's a great kludge for antiquated design, but isn't not perfect. On day 2, the very first Hint question was "How do I get Mosely's badge?". There was absolutely nothing in the game that would even lead me to believe I'd want or need it. Since the badge is used for another much later puzzle, it shouldn't have been first anyways.

Knee-Jerk Judgment
I'm already wanting to play more to see were things are going. This is a good sign. I don't hate the puzzles like I did for Resonance ... yet. The Journal system is probably why.

I'm thinking that the big audience is limited to someone like me -- that never played the original. The smaller segment would be for the nostalgia group that would like to see some newer graphics. Since I rarely play an adventure game more than once, I can't speak for/to this group.
 
Gabriel Knight Sins of the Father 20th Anniversary Edition wrapup

After about 10-15 hours, the game is complete. After a reminder of adventure games from the same time period, I can see why this one is a classic. There was way more voice acting in this game than any other of the time, some having none. Having a game written by someone other than a programmer was still a new concept.

Having a "day" system was a interesting feature of the time. Since the game isn't purely linear, there needed to be some way to segment the game into stages. Finishing enough puzzles to complete the day works to bookend the story into acts. I did get stuck on Day 4 because I didn't find an item at the Voodoo Museum, but at least the hint system let me know this.

The puzzles, however, were very obtuse to the point of being random. After watching part of the original game and comparing it to the remake, so of that randomness has been removed. For example, you now break into Mosley's office via a window, instead of talking to a street vendor who happens to move to outside the police station to distract the people.

Verdict
This was probably the only way I'd be able to enjoy playing this game. Having to alt-tab to use a spoiler walkthrough would have ruined the experience. I think this is the best you could possibly do for this game, except for doing a complete rewrite of the puzzles.

Side Note: Since this game's purpose is to stir interest in a true sequel, I'd say it's hard to judge how it would turn out. Creating intuitive, yet interesting, puzzles is the crux of this style of game. I've seen nothing that would tell me how well they'd do this task. Modern adventure games tend to be more atmospheric and light on puzzles, but I've no idea how well they'd for this style of adventure game either.
 
Review: Dreamfall Chapters: Book 1

TL;DR
It's about 4-5 hours long. Most of the game is exploration with very few puzzles. The content is mostly atmosphere and story setup for later episodes. While enjoyable, it's quite a tease.

Aesthetics
So far, this is what the game excels at: aesthetics. The depth-of-field blurring is a great touch. The look, voice work, and overall sound is very well done, but there are some eyesores.

Some character models look great while a few look like another group designed them. A few of the animations are jerky and stiff. It's not too uncommon for a character to walk completely through another. One cannot help but feel a deadline caught the team off guard. There are even a few missing lines of dialog.

The worst eyesore offender is the framerate. Even after lowering details, it's shit in the "current world". It would take quite a bit of polish to get this open area working right. There's no telling if a future patch can even address this issue, since the area is so detailed and layered with effects. *see below*

Story
Book 1 picks up where the last game left off - with our lead character in a coma. After this point, it's hard to describe the narrative. This episode puts a lot of hooks into the water and starts many plot threads and introduces many characters. If it's been a long time since playing the original Dreamfall, it might be overwhelming. Playing the previous game is a prerequisite. The "Story Recap" game menu isn't usable yet.

Gameplay
It's hard to tell what the game is doing. Since this episode's gampeplay is mostly setup and dialog, choices remembered by characters often don't reveal the consequences. The next line of dialog may change, or the next scene with that character may be altered. Most is too opaque to know at this point.

At the end, the game does state that the current choices will affect future episodes as well. If you elect to do so, the game will also tell you the percentage of people that made the same choices for key points (is your lunch choice really a "key point" in the game?!).

The non-dialog puzzles for this episode aren't too involved or too convoluted. The only thing to watch out for is you can click an item from far away, but getting closer may bring up more clickable icons.

Overall
It's enjoyable and it's ambitious. Since this episode is such a tease, it's hard to tell if the story (stories) will fall flat on its (their) face (faces). If you play the game, think of this line when playing the last character :)

At 30 bucks, it's not a bad price if the game is 20+ hours for all 5 episodes.

Be warned, you may want to wait for a patch:
---
We are currently looking into reports of poor performance on some machines. We understand that a number of players with recommended-or-higher spec hardware are still having frame-rate issues, and we will try to address this.
 

Prognathous

Ars Scholae Palatinae
1,087
Thanks for the interesting review of Dreamfall Chapters. I may eventually get to it, but first want to play the previous games in the series. I tried playing TLJ but found that going through all dialog options one by one becomes tedious. Is there a way around it? Any way to identify which dialog branches are important and which ones are fluff?
 

EtherealGoddess

Ars Tribunus Militum
2,782
Subscriptor++
[url=http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=27829057#p27829057:21q7gno9 said:
Prognathous[/url]":21q7gno9]Thanks for the interesting review of Dreamfall Chapters. I may eventually get to it, but first want to play the previous games in the series. I tried playing TLJ but found that going through all dialog options one by one becomes tedious. Is there a way around it? Any way to identify which dialog branches are important and which ones are fluff?
From very hazy memory, it seems dialogue that was just for character background was described as asking more about the character or their relationships and important plot information was pretty front-loaded and you were asking about objects in the world or directly plot-related things. Honestly, if TLJ isn't your thing, you might just want to skip up to the previous Dreamfall as the "Dreamfall" series is more parallel rather than a direct sequel.