PC VR tech & games

I'm running this laptop right now for VR until I can get a "proper" dedicated box for it (in short: i5-7300HQ mobile processor, GTX1060 w/6GB, 8GB RAM) that I threw a second SSD in (and that will be at 16GB of RAM soon), with an Oculus Rift. The laptop handles the games I've thrown at it pretty much without a hiccup, Oculus native or Steam VR-based.

Beat Saber is a huge hit in my house. I've also loaded up Marvel Powers Unlimited, which is "okay." Iron Wolf VR looks really good, and I'll be multi-playering that one early next week (4 player max WW2 co-op submarine simulator, basically). I've also spent some time in Karnage Chronicles, and it's a fun little dungeon crawler that will also support co-op of up to 4.

I've got a 4-year-old monster box that still cranks pretty well-
Core i7-5960X
Asus X-99 Deluxe
32gigs RAM
GeForce Titan Black

On this I run an HTC Vive in an adjacent room (connected by 40' of active HDMI cable and USB over cat-6 through conduit in the wall). Said adjacent room has a completely open 12'x15' play area. It is a blast!

One of the favorite party games is Richie's Plank Experience. We lay out an actual 2x6 plank up on blocks. I'd say 60% of people who play it, cant even step out onto the plank. It is hilarious for everyone watching... until it is their turn!

So, partly because I want the advice, and partly because I don't want this thread to disappear, can anyone recommend a smallish form factor machine that'll handle VR, and not break the bank at the same time? I want to put a setup in the main living space of my home, where my TV is. I'd prefer tucking a machine away into a nook versus even a mid-tower device, because my wife wants it to "look nice" and not like some wire-strewn mess. So far, I've been hauling out that laptop (mentioned above) and just hooking everything up, but that's kind of a pain in the ass.

MSI and ASUS make some decent smallish form factor machines, with GTX1060s in them, available on NewEgg for under $700. For the love of $DEITY, I don't want something with all the bling lights on it, because, "look nice." Any recommendations? Also, needs to have wifi in it for connectivity as I have not yet run CAT5 to the area behind the TV (I have to run it down the side of a chimney, going through the attic and straight down two floors).

I'd prefer to keep it under a grand if possible. I'm not opposed to building something, either, though I haven't pieced together a PC in...4, 5 years now and I'm well past the "tinker with shit because it's fun" stage of my life. I just want it to work.

ryanja said:

Now that I'm on a laptop and not typing off a cell phone, here is an example of what I mean by holding off for a bit longer to get something a little better:

https://smile.amazon.com/Flagship-Acer- ... 07FZ89136/

Decent specs, but I put away a little more to upgrade from the i7-7700HQ to the i7-8750H, which has VERY noticeable higher benchmark specifications across the board. (https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I ... 8vsm211019)

Here is the one I ended up getting:

https://smile.amazon.com/Acer-Predator- ... 07CTHLX8C/

If you're curious, here are the benchmarks of the system: https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11830875

You can likely get a similar spec'd desktop for a couple hundred less, but I'm often on the road and away from home, so getting a laptop was worth the extra investment. Also, one more quick thing, while you may have a plan for tucking your VR computer away someplace, there will still be the problem of cord management. Most VR headsets come with about 12' of cord length, and getting a couple HDMI/USB3.0 extension cords isn't a bad idea depending on its location. Keep the total length under 25' and you should be ok (actual specs say longer is fine, but I've seen some latency issues start to occur at 30').

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Yeah, I'm looking to go to a desktop. See, I bought the laptop I linked above for non-VR gaming, with an eye towards it having some longevity in that arena (and to also use it for freelance work). It's in the living room as a "until I get the 'real' machine in here" deal. I'm not worried so much about the cord management, as I've already sussed that out by putting the laptop roughly where the final machine would be located, and getting the appropriate cables ahead of time (active USB 3 extensions for each of the sensors, and an HDMI regenerator/extension with active USB3 extension for the headset). THAT part's no problem.

I think I'm waiting for the Black Friday deals to start dropping, but I'm keeping my eyes open *just in case*.

ryanja said:

Not a bad idea. I could have waited, but the itch to get something portable was driving me insane.

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My wife can play all the Beat Saber she wants to on that Dell laptop, it can handle that no sweat. I'm worried how it will fare on IronWolf VR, though, as the 6GB 1060 isn't the "minimum" graphics card the game recommends (on Steam).

Hell, if I have to, I may just get another one of those laptops. It came with 8GB and an SSD, but when I opened it up I found it had two memory slots, only one filled, and the SSD bay was open (mVNO, is that it?, boot drive). So upping it to more storage/more RAM is trivial (I already added an SSD, but I need to put in a larger one). It's that mobile processor that worries me a little for the future (VR games, not so much the non-VR stuff I play/do).

First world problems, right?

Looks like the VR thread got pushed to page 4.. guess the excitement died down. I picked up a Lenovo on the cheap earlier this year, but found myself wanting a larger FOV and less screen door. It's fun to mess around with once in a while, but I feel like it's not where I want it to be yet for a more regular activity.

If you want small and under $1000, you might be able to snag a Hades Canyon+Ram/SSD for just under $1000 when it goes on sale again. If you change your mind on DIY, I'd recommend perusing the CPU & Motherboard forum to get some build ideas. You can likely get a little more oomph by putting together your own ITX build at a similar price or if you're ok with used stuff, then take a look at various forums or eBay to knock that price point down.

Since I guess this is the main VR thread now, has anyone been able to try out the Samsung Odyssey+ that released last week? There are getting be enough VR-ready games on my backlog that I'm looking for my entry point (particularly Elite: Dangerous).

So, here's a question. I can pick up an 8GB 1080 and throw it in my existing rig. However, it's an AMD A8-5600K, which doesn't meet the "minimums" for VR (according to the Occulus specs). Would this be a Bad Move on my part? Or would simply upgrading the video card in my old rig "do the job?"

I'm afraid I know the answer, and that's, "no, you'll need a new mobo and CPU to go with it." But I thought I'd ask.

Edit: More deets: This is the mobo (MSI A55M-E33 FM2+ / FM2 AMD A55 (Hudson D2) HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard), and this is the CPU (AMD A8-5600K Trinity Quad-Core 3.6GHz)

Not sure, I get tolerable performance with an i5 3570k and a gtx 1060. VR is able to suck up every ounce of performance you give it, kind of like 4k gaming there's no real upper bound, it takes whatever you can give.

More performance can keep you stable at 90fps and get you better clarity by not having to down-rez.

I'm personally at the point I need to do a mobo/cpu/ram upgrade. I'm frankly shocked it's gotten me this far.

It looks to me like I could snag this bundle on Newegg, and the 1080 I mentioned moments ago, and for under $700 up-cycle my current desktop machine into a VR beast. I mean, I could TRY it with just the 1080 first and see what happens...

beeblebrox said:

So, here's a question. I can pick up an 8GB 1080 and throw it in my existing rig. However, it's an AMD A8-5600K, which doesn't meet the "minimums" for VR (according to the Occulus specs). Would this be a Bad Move on my part? Or would simply upgrading the video card in my old rig "do the job?"

I'm afraid I know the answer, and that's, "no, you'll need a new mobo and CPU to go with it." But I thought I'd ask.

Edit: More deets: This is the mobo (MSI A55M-E33 FM2+ / FM2 AMD A55 (Hudson D2) HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard), and this is the CPU (AMD A8-5600K Trinity Quad-Core 3.6GHz)

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I would not. It's considerably slower than the AMD high end CPUs (which are now dirt cheap) of 5 years ago - https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/A ... 489vsm1766

My best suggestion is to see if you can find a previously high end system that some gamer that upgraded and just wants a few hundred in cash for. Maybe stalk craigslist and see what shows up. I bet you could find a AM3+ socket AMD or older core i5/i7 with a 970 for 300-400 bucks, which is in the same range.

If you don't like going used, then a cheap $90 Mobo, 16GB of DDR4 (~$120), and a 2600 Ryzen ($160) are excellent starters for new builds, but that's getting close to 400, at 370. At that point it quickly turns into a new full build though. Throw in a 1060 6GB (270), 500GB SSD (90), OS (100), PSU (50), CD Drive (20) and such and you're looking at 900 (530+370) dollars really fast.

The 1500X you linked is actually a solid bundle. Just depends on what you have and what you want to re-use. Personally I'm more for slacking on a GPU in an initial build because you can replace four years down the line and be fine. But replacing a cheap processor? Not as easy or smart.

Personally I'd go for a 2600 compared to the 1500X just because for $20 you get 20% more performance and two more cores. Seems worth it to me.
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/A ... 3921vs3955

There's a used 1080 8GB on the Agora right now I just put dibs on, so for $350 the GPU is taken care of. Then a bundle of mobo/CPU/RAM for about the same price. The rest of the stuff, that I'd re-use, has been on a slow refresh cycle for a while. New-ish SSDs, that kind of thing. Good case and PS, so additional expense there should be minimal. I'd have to see if I could "move" my Win10 license, though. There's a chance, seeing as it was originally a Win7 Ultimate that if I pled my case to the MS tech guys...

Maybe. Lots to think about.

They have a 2600 bundle for $360 on Newegg that would probably be worth the extra.

JiveTurkeyJerky said:

They have a 2600 bundle for $360 on Newegg that would probably be worth the extra.

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I saw that one. That's what I'm talking about; that bundle, a used 1080 8GB, and upcycling my remaining stuff should do me.

We'll find out!

That Lenovo Explorer is pretty tempting at almost impulse buy range.. 189$ new on amazon with controllers, or even 150 on ebay for Grade A Refurbished.

Edit: 189$ deal disappeared.. up to 213.00 new.

Went ahead and picked up the 150$ Lenovo on ebay.. Grade A Seller Refurbished, supposed to be in original box with no signs of use. We'll see, it's a power seller with 97% positive feedback and a 30 day return window so not to worried.

I seriously considered the Samsung Odyssey as well (higher res, OLED screens, IPD adjustment, built in sound) they can be had for 275-300 used. It's a bit more then I want to spend on Gen1 (1.5?) VR tech though, same reason I've not purchased a Rift or Vive. It's also not very compatible with eyewear without buying special lenses (expensive) or DIY modding it. My IPD is also 65 so it fits pretty well with the fixed 64 IPD of the lenovo (and other cheap WMR headsets) Complaints of comfort as well. Comfort and eyewear compatibility are strong points of the Lenovo Explorer, as is price. It will be my first VR experience.

From what i've read SDE and overall clarity is superior on these low priced WMR headsets compared to Rift/Vive. Were they fall a bit short is is motion tracking and contrast/color/speed, because they lack OLED. Im sure as hell not paying huge premium for Rift.. almost triple the cost, when you throw in the practically required 3rd sensor (460$). Especially for 3 year old tech, with inferior resolution and optics. Rift/Vive are getting to old already to warrant their premium pricing in light of these cheaper options. Odyssey+ screens really beat rift/vive badly for 500$, though that headset has comfort and fit issues, it's far from perfect, but at least it's core tech is up to date.

Facebook would be wise to ditch the outside in tracking for a slightly more advanced version of what WMR is doing, as those funds for all the periphery can be appropriated to display tech, also easy setup and portability. WMR headsets can be hooked up to a laptop and you can be playing a game in a couple minutes. I don't think Quest will have near the capability of even a Ryzen APU laptop, and certainly not a gaming laptop. But I do get that it's a stand alone solution and is a different target audience.

We need to establish clear lines of Entry level (Quest) Mid-Range (entry level WMR, vive, rift) and High end (Pimax, vive/rift gen 2, etc) also, everything needs to become wireless, as in, the usb dongle/pcie adapter is in the box with the headset to make lattest gen low latency wi-fi work. (TP Cast type solution, built in)

Im not against spending good money on high end VR, but things are moving waaay to quickly for my personal value threshold. Im content to wait for wireless, 4k per eye, 170+ FOV, eye tracking, Foveated rendering, etc to catch up.

In 5-10 years we should have a 4k per eye, wireless, foveated rendering, HDR, 170+ degree FOV, 90 hz solution for ~400$. All of the technology is here, we just need refinement.

Already own a capable gaming machine so that's a non-issue (6700k @ 4.6, Vega 56, 32gb ram)

Robotank said:

Since I guess this is the main VR thread now, has anyone been able to try out the Samsung Odyssey+ that released last week? There are getting be enough VR-ready games on my backlog that I'm looking for my entry point (particularly Elite: Dangerous).

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Reviews are mixed.. it's pretty expensive. Screens, an anti SDE are getting great remarks, fit and comfort has seen many complaints. Some say they upgraded from standard odyssey and will be returning it for lack of significant enough improvement. I'd be a bit wary to sink 500$ in right now, without seeing what Oculus (rumour's of a rift 1.5 early next year) might be doing.

Essense said:

Robotank said:

Since I guess this is the main VR thread now, has anyone been able to try out the Samsung Odyssey+ that released last week? There are getting be enough VR-ready games on my backlog that I'm looking for my entry point (particularly Elite: Dangerous).

Click to expand...

Reviews are mixed.. it's pretty expensive. Screens, an anti SDE are getting great remarks, fit and comfort has seen many complaints. Some say they upgraded from standard odyssey and will be returning it for lack of significant enough improvement. I'd be a bit wary to sink 500$ in right now, without seeing what Oculus (rumour's of a rift 1.5 early next year) might be doing.

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Yeah, that's been roughly the state of the products since they first popped up. Every product has downsides and particularly strong entrants usually have high price points as well. If you're willing to wait a year or so, that tech makes its way into the lower prices. I've almost bought-in at the ~$400 level quite a few times now... but it's easy to wait a few more months to see what the new tech will look like.

I guess I'll end up buying something in 5-10 years when the tech stagnates a bit? Or more realistically treat myself a bit the next time I get get a hefty overtime paycheck.

almost triple the cost, when you throw in the practically required 3rd sensor (460$)

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I will say I've had no issues with 2 sensors.

Sparkfizt said:

almost triple the cost, when you throw in the practically required 3rd sensor (460$)

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I will say I've had no issues with 2 sensors.

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I have 2 (Rift), and by doing the "place them diagonally from each other, one high, one low" trick, I can get excellent 360 degree tracking. I will probably still end up adding a third sensor at some point just to see if it makes much of a difference.

I guess I should be more clear, what I meant was in order to significantly out-perform WMR tracking you need 3 rift sensors.

Robotank said:

Essense said:

Robotank said:

Since I guess this is the main VR thread now, has anyone been able to try out the Samsung Odyssey+ that released last week? There are getting be enough VR-ready games on my backlog that I'm looking for my entry point (particularly Elite: Dangerous).

Click to expand...

Reviews are mixed.. it's pretty expensive. Screens, an anti SDE are getting great remarks, fit and comfort has seen many complaints. Some say they upgraded from standard odyssey and will be returning it for lack of significant enough improvement. I'd be a bit wary to sink 500$ in right now, without seeing what Oculus (rumour's of a rift 1.5 early next year) might be doing.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's been roughly the state of the products since they first popped up. Every product has downsides and particularly strong entrants usually have high price points as well. If you're willing to wait a year or so, that tech makes its way into the lower prices. I've almost bought-in at the ~$400 level quite a few times now... but it's easy to wait a few more months to see what the new tech will look like.

I guess I'll end up buying something in 5-10 years when the tech stagnates a bit? Or more realistically treat myself a bit the next time I get get a hefty overtime paycheck.

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This was my plan as well until really affordable relatively decent windows mixed reality headset came along now I can get my feet wet with the first generation at a low price and hold out for something better

Essense said:

I guess I should be more clear, what I meant was in order to significantly out-perform WMR tracking you need 3 rift sensors.

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Doesn't that depend on the room, though? For example, I bought the Rift because I was under the impression that WMR worked best in rooms without bright lighting, and with more trackable features.

I have my VR set up in the family room of my home. One "wall," to the right of the play area, is all windows. The ceiling is 2 stories tall and slants down to 1, but out of the VR area. There's 10' of open space to the left of the area being used for VR, with really nothing to sense except maybe the floor. So using sensors to define the play area and handle the tracking seemed like the right thing for my situation. Plus, I wanted built-in mic and earphones, so that meant the Odyssey... which was like buying a Rift anyway.

Sounds like you had some good reasons to go for rift. It’s a
Nice set, and definitely has some advantages. Just a bit past my expense threshold for gen1 tech. WMR does have some tracking limitations, the room needs to be well lit, I don’t think large open spaces are a problem, but some things can be problematic like a green screen.

Running an Odyssey, and I don't have any issues with tracking, even flying through Expert+ Beat Saber maps. I don't try to do any of the cinematic 'behind the back' moves that the top VR bloggers use when playing, but it tracks great. I play in my home office, which is pretty small and has lots of 'features' (otherwise known as all my hobby junk) to track, but it's never very bright. I'd think a very well lit room would compete with the bright LEDs on the controllers.

I looked at the Odyssey+, but without a significant technical jump (increased resolution, increased FOV, etc) it's not worth the upgrade at all.

It was originally bought solely for playing flight sims (DCS and IL2:BoS), and it's absolutely incredible for that... the sensation of actually being in the plane and 'feeling' G's that aren't there is just incredible. Beat Saber has totally taken over, though, and it gets used 90% for that. It's the VR killer app.

So do the WMR headsets work with Beat Saber? Or do you need better location tracking that the Vive/Rift have?

The price on something like this is super tempting - https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... EYJ78P5481
1440x1440 per eye is better than the Vive/Rift and with controllers...

'course I suppose the WMR ones require Win10, so I'd have to update.

There are supposedly Bluetooth issues and troubleshooting that pop up sometimes. but the tech is certainly capable of the precise tracking required for beat saber, when its' working correctly. I've not personally tried yet though, that's just what i've read. My set arrives Thursday. 269$ is a little high actually, they can be found for under 200 new. I think Lenovo is the accepted "best of" as far as cheap WMR headsets go, but they are all pretty good. The Lenovo's just lighter then the rest, I think the Dell probably has best build quality, but is heavier then Lenovo. The Samsung is the best of the bunch, but maintains a significant price difference. Can be had for 275 used to 350 new. Mine was firmly in impulse buy territory at 150$ for the Lenovo, a Grade A refurb on ebay.

I found it interesting that Microsoft continues to evolve the WMR software, as noted by WMR owners the latest 1809 update fixes some issues with scaling, and even improves clarity for WMR headsets. I hope WMR becomes the "Direct X" of VR, as I feel we need some standardization.

I do have some concern's about vendor support, most/all of the current WMR headsets are already discontinued and out of production. All replacement foam parts for headbands etc are aftermarket, and it's very difficult to find replacement controllers as Dell was the only vendor who sold them separately, and there are no aftermarket options now. Im hoping a 3rd party will create standardized WMR controllers that work with all WMR headsets. I don't even think Samsung sells replacement controllers. It's a little silly as they could be damaged or broken with no easy way to replace them. Aftermarket replacement foam options are availible,(VR cover) but rarely fit as well as original. This is a strength of Vive and Oculous. Not only are their foam parts more robust, they are also easily replaceable. Im still not willing to pay that much for Gen 1 VR though. Eliminate SDE, Wires, and Give me 140+ FOV (170 would be better) and then we'll talk about dropping 500+ USD.

Check out this video on WMR Tracking capabilities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uySFvKSb9Jk

Edit: Just type "WMR" into amazon search field.. options for ~200.

Curious about these WMR headsets. What sort of compatibility do they have with Oculus or Vive titles ? Is it broadly a case-by-case basis ?

Compatibility is quite broad. SteamVR is fully supported, as is windows store. Oculus exclusives can be played with revive. It’s pretty much a non-issue, beyond rare edge cases or specific bugs.

I ordered the Lenovo headset only from B&H for $100 new mostly to screw around with Elite Dangerous. Apparently Dell is the only one who sells the controllers separately, but I've heard nothing but bad things about the WMR controllers in comparison to either HTC's or Oculus's.

Exordium01 said:

I ordered the Lenovo headset only from B&H for $100 new mostly to screw around with Elite Dangerous. Apparently Dell is the only one who sells the controllers separately, but I've heard nothing but bad things about the WMR controllers in comparison to either HTC's or Oculus's.

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Sounds like your talking to the wrong people, watch the video link I posted above.

Essense said:

Exordium01 said:

I ordered the Lenovo headset only from B&H for $100 new mostly to screw around with Elite Dangerous. Apparently Dell is the only one who sells the controllers separately, but I've heard nothing but bad things about the WMR controllers in comparison to either HTC's or Oculus's.

Click to expand...

Sounds like your talking to the wrong people, watch the video link I posted above.

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The complaints I've heard have been about controller comfort and build quality, not tracking capabilities.

Anyway, it arrived today and I can't say I'm super impressed. Stuff in the front of my field of view is clear, but stuff gets fuzzy quickly when not right in the center and I can see rings from the fresnel lenses. I'm also getting periodic "hops" in Elite where it thinks my head moved by a few inches for less than a second before recentering on where I really was.