CAD software for the modern day hobbiest?

Cool Modine

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It's time to retire my Technet copy of Visio 2013 in favor of something that can drag me kicking and screaming into the world of 3D. The only other CAD software I've used was AutoCAD several decades ago, so it's not terribly relevant. Recent usage has been floorplans, speaker cabinets, electric guitar body shapes, and other misc crap. I figure if I'm working on projects like this, I might as well start using software that will let me create projects that can be 3D printed or CNC routed.

My kids have used OnShape for CAD classes in school. Should I stick with that, or is there a better option for a home hobby maker-ing?

Here's a sample of my basic Visio work, a Fender Jazzmaster profile flipped to mimic a Gibson Firebird.
 

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Carhole

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Fusion360 has a pretty good lock on the hobbyist ‘maker’ market so it’s a safe bet with caveats.

I like and use Rhinoceros to design everything but wish that I could afford SolidWorks as a companion component for more complex mechanical engineering (Rhino is superior for surfacing and visa versa), Sketchup still exists and it has a weird AF workflow that some people like, OnShape I’ve no experience with so can’t comment, FreeCAD has a bit of OS following. You have options.

Do you intend to spend any money on the software or is freeware a must? That’ll probably help us make more informed recommendations.
 

headache

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Fusion 360 has the advantage of a vast quantity of tutorials out there on YouTube, etc. I found the learning curve to be a bit steep coming from am Autocad background, but once I started thinking a bit more in terms of assemblies and components things started making sense. You're sort of looking at a double curve, both learning to think in terms of 3d modeling, and learning to model parametrically.

I've never played with onshape, but I've been interested in trying it out. I see in their free tier it appears all data is public? Curious how that works out in practice.
 

Cool Modine

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Do you intend to spend any money on the software or is freeware a must? That’ll probably help us make more informed recommendations.
It doesn't have to be free. On the other hand, I'd have to feel like I'm getting some value for my money. I could probably afford $1500/year for OnShape or $545/year for Fusion360, but there wouldn't be much value in it. I'd be more likely to play with the free tiers, at least at first. I've also got a .edu email address from having taken some classes at a community college, so educational pricing could be an option.

I see in their free tier it appears all data is public? Curious how that works out in practice.
I'm not really sure, but this: https://www.onshape.com/en/blog/how-does-onshape-really-work
...makes it seem that the application uses a client-server design, and all the heavy lifting is done in OnShape's cloud. That would presumably include data storage as well, so I'd guess there are public document libraries browsable through the application.
 
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Xenocrates

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Fusion has an unlimited free EDU tier, a free limited "maker and startup tier" and the 545$ tier, as well as the dumb extensions they charge money/credits or something for. I pay them 545$, and am fairly happy with it's CAD/CAM performance. I've definitely gotten some mileage out of it remeshing surfaces and STLs for editing, as well as doing my own design work for various applications.
 

headache

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That would presumably include data storage as well, so I'd guess there are public document libraries browsable through the application.
I was referring to this:
Standard is available free for non-commercial projects where all user data is stored in a public work space.
 

Cool Modine

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"public work space"
Yeah, that's what I meant. But that's me, an IT guy, pulling shit out of my ass. No, wait, I mean, reading between the lines. There's only a few ways they can enforce your having your data be public. I speculate that they make it public through their cloud, or else through some other public storage provider.
 

JiveTurkey

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It doesn't have to be free. On the other hand, I'd have to feel like I'm getting some value for my money. I could probably afford $1500/year for OnShape or $545/year for Fusion360, but there wouldn't be much value in it. I'd be more likely to play with the free tiers, at least at first. I've also got a .edu email address from having taken some classes at a community college, so educational pricing could be an option.


I'm not really sure, but this: https://www.onshape.com/en/blog/how-does-onshape-really-work
...makes it seem that the application uses a client-server design, and all the heavy lifting is done in OnShape's cloud. That would presumably include data storage as well, so I'd guess there are public document libraries browsable through the application.
If you have an edu address there's a good chance you may not need to pay at all. https://www.autodesk.com/education/edu-software/overview?sorting=featured&filters=individual
 

Pino90

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"public work space"
Yeah, that's what I meant. But that's me, an IT guy, pulling shit out of my ass. No, wait, I mean, reading between the lines. There's only a few ways they can enforce your having your data be public. I speculate that they make it public through their cloud, or else through some other public storage provider.
OnShape is a cloud built CAD. It works in a browser. For my limited needs it's more than enough. Some features are for paying customers only (for instance: simulation). Concerning the "public work space": they give you a repository which looks a lot like Google Drive, and if you are in the free tier the repository is always public and indexed by their search engine.
 
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first_caveman

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I've used Fusion360 for many years, on the free student plan. Autodesk recently kicked me off that (darn graduation), and switching my account license to Hobbyist from Education was a real pain. I switched to OnShape to give that a go, and yes - on the free licenses everything you create is publically available. There is a file browser you can search through for both your own and other people's creations.

In my case, it feels weird to have it all out there, but no real reason not too. I've been wanting to share some of my designs for 3D printing for a while anyway, this just removes a step in the process.
 
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Carhole

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I've used Fusion360 for many years, on the free student plan. Autodesk recently kicked me off that (darn graduation), and switching my account license to Hobbyist from Education was a real pain. I switched to OnShape to give that a go, and yes - on the free licenses everything you create is publically available. There is a file browser you can search through for both your own and other people's creations.

In my case, it feels weird to have it all out there, but no real reason not too. I've been wanting to share some of my designs for 3D printing for a while anyway, this just removes a step in the process.
Welcome to a Ars.

Nice input. Do you have a moment to discuss what features of each of those two solutions you like and see a need for (aside from owning your own IP) improving? Potential dealbreakers for new users and such? The perpetual 3D printing thread here I’m sure would benefit from the wider conversation when thinking about these platforms as well. Thanks.
 

first_caveman

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Welcome to a Ars.

Nice input. Do you have a moment to discuss what features of each of those two solutions you like and see a need for (aside from owning your own IP) improving? Potential dealbreakers for new users and such? The perpetual 3D printing thread here I’m sure would benefit from the wider conversation when thinking about these platforms as well. Thanks.
Thank you!

I've used a stack of different CAD packages over the years. I started my journey in good ol' SketchUp, back when it was still a Google product. I then learned 2D CAD with a couple different versions of AutoCAD. I shopped around for a while when I started looking at 3D CAD packages, and tried Creo, Inventor, Fusion360, SolidWorks and OnShape - before settling on Fusion360. I picked Fusion for a couple of reasons:
  • The UI was reasonably familiar to me (AutoCAD and Fusion360 are both Autodesk products)
  • Good student licensing model
  • The timeline. Fusion keeps a complete* history of each stage of development of your model, and allows you to travel back in time to revert or alter any step
  • Native support for modelling assemblies and joints. This was possible in SketchUp, but only with fairly flaky physics plugins.
Fusion360 has been my daily driver for the last five years or so. Some other assorted observations:
  • They call it a cloud CAD product, but that isn't really true in the same sense that something like OnShape is. Fusion offloads some workloads to the cloud (such as file storage, file format conversion, some generative design tasks), but the majority of the compute is still taking place locally.
    • In general, I've found the cloud file storage to be slow and clunky. Sharing files with other people is possible, but not straight forward.
    • Why on earth saving a file to a different format needs to be a cloud process is beyond me. I frequently want to export stuff to STL for 3D printing. I can use the File > Save As menu item to upload it to Fusion's servers, wait 5 mins for the cloud conversion to take place, and then download my file again. OR, I can use File > 3D Print to instantly export to STL locally - no cloud involved. I don't understand that part of the workflow at all.
  • Fusion doesn't really let you customize keyboard shortcuts or user interactions. This is probably a familiar story for a lot of people, but the Pan, Orbit, Rotate, Zoom shortcuts are generally something you want to customise (to fit whatever arrangement you first learned). Fusion lets you pick from a couple of different presets for these, but not full customization. The same is true for OnShape (who only just recently introduced custom keyboard shortcuts at all!)
  • Fusion's timeline isn't particularly robust. It doesn't take much for referenced geometry to go missing or outside of Fusion's accepted range. I haven't found any reliable strategies to resolve this, beyond deleting the elements in the timeline that Fusion is unhappy with and recreating them.
    • There is also no timeline within a sketch! This would be hugely useful for me, instead sketches get stored as single elements in the timeline, and you don't get any sketch history.
So why the shift to OnShape? Beyond my initial complaints about changing license models with Fusion, I wanted to access my CAD on an aging macbook. OnShape runs directly in the browser, without any of the slowness I'd previously experienced in Fusion on the same device (provided I can find a decent internet connection anywhere in Australia).

Cheers!
 

Aurich

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I've decided to step up my CAD game, and settled on Fusion 360. Mostly because it has the advantage of being a bit of a standard for makers and that means there is a ton of good tutorials and content for getting started.

The initial learning curve for me was a little tricky, and I'm far from a pro at it, but now that I understand how it wants me to work in general I'm getting more confident.

Lots of videos out there, but I like this series, I watch them at 1.5x speed and get a lot of out of them:


View: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrZ2zKOtC_-C4rWfapgngoe9o2-ng8ZBr
 
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AgentQ

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Fusion 360 on the Hobbyist plan is the easy button.

It's extremely full featured for a free tool. The Hobbyist plan only allows 10 editable documents, but you can change documents back and forth between editable and non-editable any time you want. It's not an issue for most hobby-level work.

Learning Fusion 360 is a good place to start because:

1) It's free for hobbyist use with private projects

2) It's nearly full featured

3) The internet is full of Fusion 360 tutorials

4) The concepts are portable to SolidWorks and other programs if you change later

I have a slight preference for SolidWorks, but that could be a holdover of having learned it first. I had a full $$$$ license with annual renewals back in the day for contracting work, but Hobbyist Fusion 360 is so good that I haven't felt the need to pay $99/year for SolidWorks Maker Edition.
 

stevenkan

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I started my journey in good ol' SketchUp, back when it was still a Google product.
I loved SketchUp way back when! Now the free options are just too limited. This is just for my personal dabbling, so I have no budget for real 3D software, so it's a shame that SketchUp has lost its (useful) free version.

I downloaded Shapr3D, which is supposed to be free, but I haven't done enough tutorials to be able to use it for anything yet. Is it truly free, and useful it its free form?
 

Carhole

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To be honest I'm already seeing that I'm probably going to start paying for Fusion 360 sooner rather than later. The limitations are minor, but they're also things that I would find genuinely useful. Especially the exporting to DXF.
Wait until you need to perform complex surfacing 🤦‍♂️ and then you’ll be hunting for something likely NURBs centric. I mean, some lofting can happen in Fusion, SolidWorks can make lovely machine surfaces but you’re better off using their browser plugin for organics, but playing with native NURBs and being able to also edit in quads gets you advanced forms really easily.

Making them, on the other hand, remains the secondary and not at all diminishingly easy engineering process; offsetting surfaces correctly, creating watertight solids and weird shit like having your vertices get flipped around can eat up hours of editing, so knowing good workflows really helps here. Fusion can remain a fantastic export destination for final work on outputting say a printable form of wild complexity and precision to your end suite of say known good working slicing and material settings.

I would elaborate that box modeling (as well as clay) can be a fine substitute if accurate dimensioning isn’t a requirement for a project and final scaling is done say, again, in Fusion before output. This unlocks lots of options such as Maya’s tools, ZBrush, bashing your head in trying to emulate the former two in Blender, and so on.
Image 11-5-22 at 11.51 PM.jpeg
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This racing cat of mine is a bastardization of rail sweeps, surface extensions, tangential surface connections, projected curves used for slicing, and many cross sections for lofting. Rhino 7, but this would ce been build able back to Rhino 4 or 5 from quite a long time back:
Image 11-6-22 at 12.06 AM.jpeg
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The eMapped views really show off how well a good surfacing suite can aid the modeler.

Seeing some of the discreet surfaces is helpful because you then clearly can tell that the model is comprised of various surfaces and that each has carefully arranged geometry:
Image 11-5-22 at 11.43 PM.jpeg
That could be much more colorful but I design in muted colors for ease on the eyes.

Onto the next!
 

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Carhole

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I'm not at "design race boats" yet, I'm just happy to be able to make functional parts to 3D print that are more complicated or nicer than what I was able to previously.

View attachment 65492

I do have a CNC that is extremely underutilized that I would like to figure out a workflow for CAM for at some point too.
This is probably what the majority of people getting into the hobby need to learn for connecting OTS hardware in their unique creations, and many more advanced things like boat hulls get shared for sectional printing anyways. Your part above reminds me a lot of something that our high school drafting teacher had us work up using good old fashioned French curves and #2Bs. I’ve forgotten how to make an orthogonal projection from a 3-view like your image; direct result of relying on CAD.
 

Visigoth

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Somewhat related, but on the YouTube channel Inheritance Machining he does his designs with pencil and paper for things he makes. It's pretty impressive, and interesting to see, since even though the things he's designing are just for him he make full on documents even including a title block. Now maybe he designs them in CAD first and then makes the paper ones for the video, but does seem like he enjoys doing it the old fashion way.
 

Carhole

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Somewhat related, but on the YouTube channel Inheritance Machining he does his designs with pencil and paper for things he makes. It's pretty impressive, and interesting to see, since even though the things he's designing are just for him he make full on documents even including a title block. Now maybe he designs them in CAD first and then makes the paper ones for the video, but does seem like he enjoys doing it the old fashion way.
This guy is a treasure—sharing these techniques with kids/world who’ve never seen how stuff actually gets prototyped or hand machined is a novel cause. I spent 22min fixed on my screen as he milled artful, protective jaws for his 4-jaw lathe chuck. I also saw some of the drafting that you mentioned in this episode and not only got why it came to mind when reading the thread, I mean cool, that was nice to see being used in practice. Nostalgia. Thanks for the recommendation.
 

Visigoth

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I'm not even sure how I found his channel, likely a recommendation due to watching Clickspring (who I'm also not sure how I found), but I'm certainly glad I did. I like the humor he throws into them and isn't afraid to show his mistakes (and even has a box just for them). Of course whenever I watch them I think that I should get a lathe or something and start playing around with machining, but then I remember I don't have room for any of that and that I already have enough other things that I'm sometime half-assing my way through and don't need another. Plus with a lot of those machining tools you don't want to be half-assing your way with them else you're likely to end up with a half-hand.
 
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stevenkan

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I've been watching his channel since close to the beginning, really glad he's seeing success and able to make it a full time thing because his content is a joy.

If you're interesting in his hand drafting he has an entire video dedicated to it:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtchhV7aV7Q

It would be interesting to see if one could take a photo of the finished drawing from an iPhone and have it automatically re-generated in CAD software.
 

Aurich

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It would be interesting to see if one could take a photo of the finished drawing from an iPhone and have it automatically re-generated in CAD software.
I mean ... he knows how to use CAD software, he's hand drafting for the enjoyment of it. So it feels sort of pointless to then want to take that and try and turn it back into CAD to me.

Now if such a thing existed to say read in old blueprints and patents or whatever and let you edit them that would be pretty cool.
 

first_caveman

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Now if such a thing existed to say read in old blueprints and patents or whatever and let you edit them that would be pretty cool.
I might be missing the point here, but you can do that in Fusion, albeit with a bit of manual effort. Take some good photos, import them as reference issues and go to town tracing over them. As long as you can scale them reasonably accurately, you can get some good results. If you've got a three-view, you can import the parts of it on different reference planes...

I've traced reference images as a quick and dirty approach to 3D printed tool holders - whenever the geometry of the <insert hand tool here> gets too annoying to measure out with calipers, I just take a photo of it on a hobby mat (which provides a 10mm grid as the background) and go to town in Fusion.
 
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Aurich

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I might be missing the point here, but you can do that in Fusion, albeit with a bit of manual effort.
The topic was automatic generation. Not doing it manually. Which of course you can do.

It's pretty much a pointless aside, he does them by hand to enjoy doing it by hand, not because he can't use CAD.

It would be like watching a video of someone enjoying using hand tools to build something with wood and telling them that power tools exist. They know, they're enjoying working with their hands.
 

stevenkan

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I mean ... he knows how to use CAD software, he's hand drafting for the enjoyment of it. So it feels sort of pointless to then want to take that and try and turn it back into CAD to me.

Now if such a thing existed to say read in old blueprints and patents or whatever and let you edit them that would be pretty cool.
Yeah, not for him, and not in this application, since he's also the machinist.

But if he wanted to hand that drawing off to a commercial fab house, they might want to re-create it digitally.
 
It would be interesting to see if one could take a photo of the finished drawing from an iPhone and have it automatically re-generated in CAD software.
Well there's this from the guys who made the hand-held CNC router:


Not exactly straight to cad, but exporting from illustrator/inkshape to DWG/DXF isnt that hard.
 
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Carhole

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Now if such a thing existed to say read in old blueprints and patents or whatever and let you edit them that would be pretty cool.

I’m sure there’s a script for that for any of the more popular suites. Something like “extract drawing from background image” or similar.
As it turns out this functionality has been added to Rhino 8 (beta) as a full PDF import. They’ve had a “make 2D” command for ages that poops out lovely line drawings sans dimensions which need to be added for print work, but being able to extract mechanical drawings into lines is pretty sweet. Naturally, some talented script writer has already incorporated run command to build a 3D model from the PDF imports using Grasshopper.

Fun stuff, and I could certainly see some use cases popping up in the future. Perhaps I’ll build our house from the framing schedules when I’ve got some downtime.

In other workflow news I’ve found that a useful set of tools for what I have been doing while often disabled is to design a project in Illustrator or Sketchbook Pro on my iPad since I grew up drawing first and foremost when trying to extract an idea from the braincell, and then importing .ai or PDFs into Rhino is surprisingly clean. I’ve had to do very little curve fairing.

This is extremely helpful as some days I need to stay on the couch. So beginning with a sketch:
IMG_0101.jpeg
Then some hours later making a flat spot on my ass at the workstation and we have:
IMG_2063.png
My displacement analysis showed that it needed a slightly deeper deadrise angle in the fore planing surfaces as well as the planing tail, so some iterating later I jumped from 16.28lbs of buoyancy per hull at the desired waterline up to 34.2lbs each. In other words, the concept sketch was helpful but the CAD systems solved the hydrostatics problems for me while retaining much of the look of the concept drawing.

I’d still recommend Rhinoceros for anybody who wants to actually own a very power suite of tools instead of renting one for thousands of USD per year. McNeel has been issuing rich point releases that integrate new features from WIP builds long before an update release hits the channel so you get evolving feature sets for several years and bug fixes many years later for a single purchase. .edu pricing is very reasonable. A single commercial seat is extremely cheap compared to the super big CAD suites, plus it’s cross-platform and you can switch your license (automatically assuming you’re online) between many computers both Mac and PC with a single license. That latter feature is a really lovely item that is partially solved for browser-based plugins, but you want native apps for full speed potential of the hardware you payed for whenever possible.

If you’re into parametric visual script programming you’ll have a field day with Grasshopper. I suck at it, though I’ll force myself to learn more uses soon enough so that tweaking chine curves and merging elegant fillets is not so time consuming. I’d say that Rhino’s “Preserve History” function is severely limited in parametric abilities as it tends to limit you to altering one area of a model, so you really want Grasshopper skills if you’re intending to iterate on complex geometric bodies or mechanical assemblies, otherwise you’re spending time rebuilding and relofting surfaces manually. It gets old without automation.

All that mentioned, wait for V8’s release. The new tools that they’re adding in are downright impressive.
 

headache

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SolidWorks has a maker deal for $99 / year. That's what I primarily use at work, and have been thinking of getting my personal license for home use.
Bumping to note that this license tier is now ~$40/year (for a limited time it seems?) Gaining some seat time with solidworks had been on my list for a while, so the new price made it a no brainer for me.
 
Somewhat related, but on the YouTube channel Inheritance Machining he does his designs with pencil and paper for things he makes. It's pretty impressive, and interesting to see, since even though the things he's designing are just for him he make full on documents even including a title block. Now maybe he designs them in CAD first and then makes the paper ones for the video, but does seem like he enjoys doing it the old fashion way.
He's one of the reasons I've recently bought a drafting table. I still need to set it up (after finishing like 20 other items on the to-do list) but manually drafted drawings just have something that computer drawings just don't capture.
 
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Bumping to note that this license tier is now ~$40/year (for a limited time it seems?) Gaining some seat time with solidworks had been on my list for a while, so the new price made it a no brainer for me.
Keep in mind though, this is for 3DEXPERIENCE Solidworks for Makers, which is a cloud based version of Solidworks, not the "normal" Solidworks. Might not matter for everyone, but I for one don't like browser based "always online" solutions. Unfortunately that basically rules out pretty much every single affordable semi-professional CAD offering currently.
 
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