Mac mini M2 icons fuzzy

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Struxxffs

Struxxffs

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  • #1
    Monitor is: MSI Optix MAG274QRF-QD

    Monitor Specs

    Native Resolution: 2560 x 1440

    Aspect Ratio: 16:9

    Megapixels: 3.7 MP

    Pixel Density: 109 PPI


    I have tried using two different length versions of this cable:

    Cable Matters: Thunderbolt 4 (40Gbp/s) USB-C Cable with 100W charging (Supports DisplayPort Alt Mode (DP Alt Mode))

    And also:

    Monitors factory hdmi cable

    Monitor Factors display port cable on the cal digit ts4 dock


    Monitor Resolutions:

    Have tried all monitor resolutions and refresh rates rates, they all have worse results.


    Current Resolution: 1440p

    Current Refresh rate: 120hz

    Currently using the cable matters thunderbolt cable connected to the Mac minis spare thunderbolt port.


    Small Icons are always fuzzy

    Screenshot 2024-06-12 at 11.23.41 PM.jpeg
    Screenshot 2024-06-12 at 11.24.07 PM.jpeg
     
    Struxxffs

    Struxxffs

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  • #7
    leet said:
    I have two 1440p monitors and never see jaggies like that. OP, what is the context of "small icons"?
    Click to expand...
    Area51Freak said:
    View attachment 83053
    Click to expand...

    Small icons those in the settings menu. Most of them are not as bad but still fuzzy.

    I have tried reinstalling mac os by writing clean macos sonoma install images to different ssds and enclosures, just in case the install got corrupted some how but this issue still occurs.
     
    gabemaroz

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  • #9
    Sounds like the display is running in LoDPI model without scaling.

    You could try something like BetterDisplay but the functionality to enable HiDPI mode is locked behind a pro version ($18). Alternatively, you could also try DisplayPlacer which is open-source and free but not nearly as easy to use and has fewer features.

    You'll need to install HomeBrew for DisplayPlacer.

    If you turn off "show all resolutions", usually all that remains are potentially scaled ones as well. Can you post a screenshot of that?
     
    Gandalf007

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  • #10
    They already have the option to run their monitor in HiDPI mode, but at half the effective resolution and pixel (effectively 1280x720 55 DPI), it wouldn't be very useful for a desktop display. (Could be fine for a TV or digital signage.) I doubt that faking HiDPI via scaling would look any better.

    I think that particular icon (iCloud, under Apple ID) is just poorly made. I see the same jaggedness on that icon (less so on the others) on my non-retina 24" Dell monitor, but it's less noticeable in light mode than dark mode. When I drag the Settings app to the laptop's (retina) display, it looks better.

    So yes, unfortunately, it's just:
    galad said:
    That's just another normal day for macOS on a non retina monitor.
    Click to expand...
     

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    Struxxffs

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  • #11
    leet said:
    Can you be more specific? I see a small icons in System Settings -> Appearance -> Sidebar icon size, but changing from Medium to Small didn't result in any jaggedness.
    Click to expand...

    I'm sorry, should of included more details.

    In system settings -> appearance -> Sidebar the icon size is set to medium.

    While some of the icons look fine firefox, home and tips that look fuzzy.

    Screenshot 2024-06-13 at 6.20.33 PM.jpeg

    The problem also effects applications such as firefox. Some of the icons look fuzzy, for example in the history.

    Screenshot 2024-06-13 at 6.23.31 PM.jpeg

    gabemaroz said:
    Sounds like the display is running in LoDPI model without scaling.

    You could try something like BetterDisplay but the functionality to enable HiDPI mode is locked behind a pro version ($18). Alternatively, you could also try DisplayPlacer which is open-source and free but not nearly as easy to use and has fewer features.

    You'll need to install HomeBrew for DisplayPlacer.

    If you turn off "show all resolutions", usually all that remains are potentially scaled ones as well. Can you post a screenshot of that?
    Click to expand...

    Screenshot 2024-06-13 at 6.52.37 PM.jpeg
     
    gabemaroz

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  • #12
    Well since @Gandalf007 was able to perfectly replicate the issue and from all appearances it is limited to specific apps, I would say the behavior you are seeing is correct (with regard to how the icons themselves were designed / your monitor resolution / OS scaling).

    Is it optimal? No. But unless the icons themselves and the resolution scaling in the OS itself were changed, there's nothing you as a user can do to fix the problem short of buying a higher resolution monitor.

    Sorry but @galad was correct:
    galad said:
    That's just another normal day for macOS on a non retina monitor.
    Click to expand...
     
    Struxxffs

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  • #13
    gabemaroz said:
    Well since @Gandalf007 was able to perfectly replicate the issue and from all appearances it is limited to specific apps, I would say the behavior you are seeing is correct (with regard to how the icons themselves were designed / your monitor resolution / OS scaling).

    Is it optimal? No. But unless the icons themselves and the resolution scaling in the OS itself were changed, there's nothing you as a user can do to fix the problem short of buying a higher resolution monitor.

    Sorry but @galad was correct:
    Click to expand...

    Ill probably have to look into 4k monitors then.

    When reading about the monitor on rtings they stated it has no issues with mac os compatibility but one thing that did stand out was
    "It also has a USB-C input that supports DisplayPort Alt Mode, allowing you to display an image from a compatible device. Although it is advertised to support a maximum of 15W of power delivery, in practice, it can only deliver 5W."
    Click to expand...

    Could this 5W limitation and the fact it is usb-c contribute contribute to this problem, or is just simply low ppi, low resolution, and no retina.
     
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  • #15
    gabemaroz said:
    You could try something like BetterDisplay but the functionality to enable HiDPI mode is locked behind a pro version ($18).
    Click to expand...
    HiDPI scaling does work in the free version.

    Area51Freak said:
    Ill probably have to look into 4k monitors then.
    Click to expand...
    FWIW, I’ve found a 27” 4K display running at 133% scaling (2560x1440 @2X/HiDPI) to be all but indistinguishable from a 5K retina display at ergonomic distances, aka an arm’s length from eye to screen.

    IOW: 5K internal resolution scaled to 4K display at a normal viewing distance is good enough, almost the real thing. This is not to hate on 5K displays, but rather sing the praises of the Mac’s resolution scaling.
     
    Last edited:
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  • #17
    Vincent Hanna said:
    I very much disagree with the above sentiment. Native 5K at 27” is noticeably better than scaled 4K. And that’s even with my eyes not being as great as they used to be.
    Click to expand...
    Friendly probing: do you mean 4K output scaled up on the 5K display, or 5K output downscaled on a 4K display?

    Vincent Hanna said:
    Though I realize many people cannot tell the difference.
    Click to expand...
    Oh, the difference is there. I just need to be closer than arm’s-length to easily notice it, which my standing desk almost always prohibits. YMMV
     
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    dal20402

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  • #20
    Vincent Hanna said:
    I very much disagree with the above sentiment. Native 5K at 27” is noticeably better than scaled 4K. And that’s even with my eyes not being as great as they used to be.

    Though I realize many people cannot tell the difference.
    Click to expand...
    I use both of these for many hours a day (I have 2x 4K displays at work and 3x 5K at home) and I emphatically agree with Vincent Hanna. 4K scaled to "looks like 2560x1440 HiDPI" is perfectly usable. But 5K is better, in a non-trivial and immediately noticeable way. macOS at this point is visually optimized for 200+ ppi displays, which is not a surprise given that all but a tiny fraction of Macs sold for the last six years have been laptops with, well, 200+ ppi displays.
     
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    Gandalf007

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  • #21
    dal20402 said:
    I use both of these for many hours a day (I have 2x 4K displays at work and 3x 5K at home) and I emphatically agree with Vincent Hanna. 4K scaled to "looks like 2560x1440 HiDPI" is perfectly usable. But 5K is better, in a non-trivial and immediately noticeable way. macOS at this point is visually optimized for 200+ ppi displays, which is not a surprise given that all but a tiny fraction of Macs sold for the last six years have been laptops with, well, 200+ ppi displays.
    Click to expand...
    Also all the iMac displays since 2017* are 218 PPI, regardless of 21, 24, or 27-inch size, with the resolution adjusted accordingly between 4k and 5k.

    *"Retina" iMacs have been available since 2014, sold alongside not-retina ones for a couple years.
     
    Struxxffs

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  • #22
    Dropping the 120hz.

    What monitor would you suggest would you suggest for $350?

    It would be used mostly for programming and video.

    Highest screen size would be 32 inches the lowest would be 27 inches

    Resolution 4k

    140 , 150 ppi, to be honest no low ppi just a ppi that scales best to have better text, photos that will look clean and best looking video playback.

    Usb C DP alt mode

    I like the thin bezzel look of the LG 27UD68P-B
     
    Last edited:
    Gandalf007

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  • #25
    Personally, I wouldn't look at 4k monitors any larger than 24", as the DPI would be unacceptably low to me. Even that is 184 ppi (HiDPI equivalent to 92). At 27" you're down to 163 ppi.

    If you were happy with the size of things on your old 27" 1440p monitor, a "retina" 5k 27" monitor would be the direct replacement, and a 21" 4k monitor would have the same DPI. If you want things to appear somewhat larger, go with a 23-24" monitor. Maybe a 27" if you really want stuff to appear larger, but 32" would be far too large in HiDPI mode, and too small in native mode.

    This DPI calculator is quite useful.
     
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    antibolo

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  • #26
    I see OP is currently discovering why many Mac users (including myself) tend to complain a lot about the dismal lack of >= 220 DPI options on the PC display market.

    Over 10 years after Apple started pushing for the normalization of 220 DPI as a baseline standard, the Windows-centric PC hardware industry continues to not give a shit. And meanwhile Apple has done absolutely nothing to compensate for it (ie. more flexible scaling options).
     
    Struxxffs

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  • #28
    Gandalf007 said:
    Personally, I wouldn't look at 4k monitors any larger than 24", as the DPI would be unacceptably low to me. Even that is 184 ppi (HiDPI equivalent to 92). At 27" you're down to 163 ppi.

    If you were happy with the size of things on your old 27" 1440p monitor, a "retina" 5k 27" monitor would be the direct replacement, and a 21" 4k monitor would have the same DPI. If you want things to appear somewhat larger, go with a 23-24" monitor. Maybe a 27" if you really want stuff to appear larger, but 32" would be far too large in HiDPI mode, and too small in native mode.

    This DPI calculator is quite useful.
    Click to expand...

    I was reading posts in the morning about monitor sizes and Macos. People seem to have good experiences on monitors that are around 30 inches but some do not.

    antibolo said:
    I see OP is currently discovering why many Mac users (including myself) tend to complain a lot about the dismal lack of >= 220 DPI options on the PC display market.

    Over 10 years after Apple started pushing for the normalization of 220 DPI as a baseline standard, the Windows-centric PC hardware industry continues to not give a shit. And meanwhile Apple has done absolutely nothing to compensate for it (ie. more flexible scaling options).
    Click to expand...
    Yes. Finding Monitors that allow macos to look right are not as easy as I thought.
     
    Last edited:
    Struxxffs

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  • #29
    Thank you everyone for the suggestions, helps and resources.

    After reading advice, monitor advice, macos scaling, I might understand how monitors with macos work.

    4k at 32inches objects will look to big or small.

    4k at 27 inches objects will big small text will look fuzzy.


    My options are I could either:

    Pay money for a smaller monitor.

    4k at 24 inches


    Pay more money:

    5k at 27 inches

    6k at 32 inches
     
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