Ars LKF's Which Distro FAQ (ask "which distro-questions" here)

Too bad no one has done a writeup on Gentoo yet. I'm just about switched over and would like to know how it stacks up before it's too late.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Don't be to critical of my HTML coding because I'm not into web design that much so it's very basic.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Personally, I like the page very much, if I can suggest anything, I would split down the content over a bunch of pages, so you don't have to scroll a lot.<BR>Nice work View image: /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<BR>Upon the regular "<I>what should I install? thread</I>"... Can we link to that too? Do you think that your ISP will kick you out? As a side note, I believe that we get a lot of questions like that because we don't have a banner, a line, something that warns the poster to read first the FAQ... I've noticed that all the other forum do have one.

Oh yes, get that into faq.arstechnica.com right away. View image: /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<BR><BR>I'm with hictio, we really need a link to the faq on the front page. Hell, Network Matrix has one and they still get "what is a hub" several times a day. Imagine what they'd get without a faq.

i'm by no means an expert in linux, but i think gentoo is the best of the best of linux. there are a few things different about the way things get installed and configured post-install, but it is soooooo nice. i can't even explain it.

sure, i'll see what kinds of things i can whip up

I would like to add a brief description of the "Floppy based distros", may I send it to you via e-mail? Do I have to remove the "<B>NO_SPAM</B>" bit from your e-mail address?<BR>Thanks.

ok, i wrote up a basic summary in the same format you have going:<BR><BR>Distributions known to be more difficult to install<BR><BR>Gentoo is a cross between Debian and Slackware. It is a source based distribution. A lot of it's installation and configuration is automatic, but there is still quite a bit old fashioned command line and vi style configuration. Of all the *nixes I've seen, it's the most cutting edge, in regards to updates and component versions. It still gets tested, and during this phase individual packages are "masked" from being downloaded via their Portage system, which is comparable to Debian's apt-get. You are free to unmask these packages, and assist in bug hunting. Because of it's cutting edge factor, I wouldn't recommend it as a production system if you value 100% stability. But I've found that it is quite stable, nonetheless. Users without a broadband connection will likely not want to try out Gentoo, as it downloads everything, starting from installation. This includes the kernel, basic system, and of course, optional packages.<BR><BR>Package Managers<BR><BR>Here is where Gentoo really shines. As previously mentioned, it's Portage system is very similar to Debian's apt-get. It takes care of all dependencies, and allows you to upgrade your packages and recompile them with simple one line commands.<BR><BR>Quality of Setup and admin tools<BR><BR>Installation is straightforward, and described with accuracy on the Gentoo site that most anyone should be able to follow, even with little or no experience. Beyond that and the Portage system, it's your basic no strings linux system<BR><BR>Default security and packages<BR><BR>The system you have immediately after installation is bare, required components only. Don't be decieved, this is one of it's biggest strengths. Anti-bloat. You get a sleek, fast system, that only contains what you want it to contain (plus dependencies). Someone else will have to write about the security level.<BR><BR>Quality of commercial support<BR><BR>They have no commercial package, but everyone recieves very good support at their forums. There is a lot of user and developer communication.<BR><BR>Quality of man pages<BR><BR>Same as the others. Nothing special here.<BR><BR>Cost and ease of acquisition<BR><BR>100% Free. ISO is 1 CD, ranging from 35MB to 135MB. Packages are downloaded during installation.<BR><BR>Supported Platforms<BR><BR>x86 architecture, SPARC and PPC, with a new s390 port in progress.

glad to help View image: /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Maybe list some more third party vendors in the "Cost and ease of acquisition" section. Is that inappropriate? I don't think it is, if the alternative is a week long free download.<BR><BR>It only took me several nights to download peanut linux on a dial-up, a larger distro would really be tedius.<BR><BR>I only know of a couple. edmunds-enterprises.com is one, cheapbytes.com is another.<BR><BR>Although you list a couple online sources already, at bsdmall.com (via daemonnews.org, for example) a FreeBSD 4.6 4-cd set is $40 + shipping, vs. $4 + shipping at edmunds.

I just sent you an e-mail w/ a proposal for splitting the FAQ, and the "Floppy based distros" description and links.

Yeah, I hate tying up the line all night all week, we sometimes get unexpected calls. <BR><BR>I've only used the first one or two in this list.<BR>Can anyone recommend them?<BR><BR>-------------8<--------------<BR><BR>http://www.edmunds-enterprises.com/<BR>http://www.cheapbytes.com/<BR>http://www.mrolinux.com/<BR>http://www.lsl.com/

never bought a linux cd, but gentoo uses http://www.tuxcds.com/

Obitus, very good job...I do however think you sell SuSE short a little, It is as easy if not easier to install as Mandrake and from my experience, far more stable, which is a good thing IMO, also I would describe the set of books as a bit more than decent..<BR><BR>If you were a total newbie, those books would be invaluable..you could read them right through like a course or use them as a quick reference to get you out of a jam..<BR><BR>anyhow, like I said, nice job, and this will hopefully end all those WD threads and allow Jemfinch and Treatment to concentrate on their real job...troll patrol View image: /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Obitus this is looking really good. View image: /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<BR><BR>Some of that came from stuff I wrote for the older faq. I must say that the disk partitioning in OpenBSD really doesn't bother me anymore, but I guess what is there is still very valid for someone on their first or second (or third) OpenBSD install. View image: /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <BR><BR>I need to look at this a little more thoroughly but here are a few thoughts. The Suse portal is gone now, it was spun off and became an "independent linux portal." It's somewhat tacky now and probably doesn't merit a mention IMO.<BR><BR>People probably ought to look at the "platforms and portability" section and suggest updates to it. Keep in mind that we really need to specify if a platform is experimental or beta for that distribution. In some cases we probably haven't done that, I'm not sure. I spent a lot of time digging up info from distro websites but I doubt they are always honest about some platforms' "betaness." View image: /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<BR><BR>Suse is no longer Oracle's primary platform. They might still develop on it but Suse's enterprise distro and Redhat's are both supported options and the ordinary desktop distros from these companies (which will run Oracle fine) are not supported for production use. We might want to eliminate mention of Oracle, I don't know.<BR><BR>Suse is no longer "the only commercial *nix to come on one DVD." Although oddly enough the Redhat DVD isn't available in the US? We ought to mention that Suse is in fact available for FTP download (not as an ISO) and that a new release typically appears a couple of months after it appears in stores.<BR><BR>I almost wish the FreeBSD SMP limitations weren't mentioned since it's such a wankathon. But it's in there, and it's sort of true, so...<BR><BR>For Redhat, is the statement "Online update feature requires registration." still true? It was when we wrote it but I think this might have changed.<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Obitus, very good job...I do however think you sell SuSE short a little, It is as easy if not easier to install as Mandrake and from my experience, far more stable, which is a good thing IMO, also I would describe the set of books as a bit more than decent.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree with you but the point was to keep things as factual and non-controversial as possible - I think we succeeded pretty well in that. Suse is my favorite distro and I probably wrote a lot of that, so *I* sold Suse short, more or less on purpose. View image: /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I think "has recently become easy to use for installation and administration tasks. Good online update feature." is accurate, and brevity is a plus I think.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR><BR>I did post what you sent me in a new section between the "specialized for older machines" section and the "mac" section.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>I have checked that... Found some typos, I'm e-mailing you a new text, with some corrections and more info.<BR>Thanks. View image: /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I've gotten all my Linux .iso's from www.linuxiso.org. They usually have up-to-date links to the various distros and tell you if they don't. They also have a couple of search options that allow you to choose based on name (alphabetical) or by architecture. FAQ looks good.<BR><BR>metx

Excellent job Obitus!<BR><BR>My only suggestion would be to maybe include a mention about some of the so-called "live evaluation" CDs like SuSE, KNOPPIX and others (?) I'm not aware of offer. Some folks might appreciate trying out linux with them.<BR><BR>Also other places to buy linux CDs online are Linux Emporium and Crazy Penguin (both UK based).<BR><BR>Cheers.

I disagree with one point of Sykus's otherwise apt description of Gentoo: I'd suggest that it is a good choice for users on dialup. The basic x86 installation ISO is a lean 16MB. Added to that, it only downloads sources for the application that are immediately installed. Thus in my book, it's a far quicker installation than having to download three large ISOs for Red Hat or the like (which total 1769MB). Downloading large ISOs on dialup is quite a bitch compared to grabbing a large number of small files between 0 and 20MB.<BR><BR>Assuming, of course, that you intend to download rather than purchasing CDs.<BR><BR>I was always quite happy with the ease that I could install FreeBSD and Gentoo back when I was still on dialup.

that is a good point. i wasn't thinking about it that way. View image: /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Here is where Gentoo really shines. As previously mentioned, it's Portage system is very similar to Debian's apt-get. It takes care of all dependencies, and allows you to upgrade your packages and recompile them with simple one line commands. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>You've <I>got</I> to mention the compile times as a factor when considering Gentoo. X+KDE has taken some users over 20 hours (on older systems) to compile. It's not really a big deal, but it can be surprising to some people, and a nuisance to others who don't want to bother with all this from-source stuff and just want a system up and running within an hour. <BR><BR>Gentoo is a great distribution for very, very specific customization. Just about anything that's on your system is there because you want it there. That's a huge plus for Geeks Like Us.<BR><BR>Gentoo is also a great distribution to learn more about Linux on - the documentation is very thorough and step by step, from having to fdisk, set up and format partitions, [possibly] compile your own kernel, etc. Each step of the way is a learning process, but ultimately very rewarding because of the support that is available - the process goes along fairly smoothly. Another notable of Gentoo is the user base - the forums and IRC are helpful resources for new users with questions.<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Package Managers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Also, what I consider to be the biggest advantage of Gentoo is how very bleeding edge it is. Systems stay caught up to the very latest minute, without having to bother with cvs, with two simple commands "emerge rsync; emerge -u world". The bleeding edge can be a drawback in the form of untested software, but hey, its a great tradeoff for those who like to check out the newest stuff, and who's systems aren't for mission critical non-stop computing. For the most part, the packages and builds are screened and tested by the package submitters. Most new problems are caught quickly, made known thru the forums, mailing lists, or bug tracking, and a resolution is made known quickly.

Amazing work!! Congratulations, Obitus, an instant classic, a GNU/Linux landmark. <BR>We need a link to the site --or another place hosting the same site-- on the LFK homepage ASAP.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obitus:<BR><BR>Could you maybe be a little more specific? Like where I should list that? If you can I'll try to put it in for you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Okay, well my thinking was for people with a reluctance to commit to partitioning and installing linux just to have a look might find it beneficial to try out one of the live evaluation type cd offerings.<BR><BR>I've not used any of these before so if any of my examples suck really badly - do speak up. View image: /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<BR><BR>Live Evaluation CDs.<BR><BR>Various groups have produced bootable cds that will run a functioning Linux distribution without the need to partition and install a fully fledged distribution on your hard drive. This is ideal if you would like to try out Linux but are unwilling to fully commit yourself.<BR><BR>You need a cdrom drive and a BIOS that supports booting from cd (although a floppy boot disk can be used in some instances also). They run some form of desktop environment so having a decent amount of RAM (128MB) is desirable. Check for minimum system requirements before downloading and trying them out.<BR><BR>DemoLinux is a Debian based release.<BR><BR>KNOPPIX is another Debian based live cd offering.<BR><BR>Virtual-Linux is based on Linux Mandrake.<BR><BR>SuSE have historically released a live evaluation iso of their distribution for download.<BR><BR>-----<BR><BR>These are the few I'm aware of. There are others including NetBSD (only in German presently) and apparently Slackware's 2nd cd provides similar functionality. There are also several tools available for rolling your own live cd. Apologies for any errors or sucky info, I'm not an expert. View image: /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<BR><BR>[edit: screwy tags + grammar]<BR><BR>[This message was edited by Pangenitor on August 08, 2002 at 23:11.]

Oh I forgot to say, I think you might want to just tag it on at the end as they are not strictly distros in their own right.<BR><BR>Cheers.

This thread is now a "featured thread", and so will stay on top, presumably so that the link to the FAQ in the first post is visible to new visitors to inhibit 'Which Distro' threads. Of course, contributions are still welcome! View image: /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<BR><BR>philmes, any chance that the contents of this FAQ and the unmaintained old FAQ can be folded into the OpenForum FAQ?

Pangenitor:<BR><BR>Slackware 8.1 also has a live bootable demo cd, it's disk #2 in the official 4 cd set.<BR><BR><BR>Can you alter the slack entry from:<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR><BR>Slackware<BR>The install is mostly menu driven. It is less difficult to install then Debian but more then Red Hat comparitively speaking.<BR>Slackware uses .tgz packages natively but can also use others such as RPM. It is supposed to be more Unix like then the other Linux distributions.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>to:<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR><BR>Slackware<BR>The install is mostly menu driven. It is less difficult to install <B>than</B> Debian but more <B>than</B> Red Hat comparitively speaking.<BR>Slackware uses .tgz packages natively but can also use others such as RPM. It is supposed to be more BSD-like then the other Linux distributions.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

might want to add in a little blurb describing .tgz files in the section describing .deb and .rpm files.<BR><BR>i know it's basic, but why leave it out?

Obitus: I have a lot of webspace and bandwidth and would be willing to mirror you. If you could shoot me an email about which files I should mirror, I can get them up. I would also need to be kept informed of updates.

Slackware's TGZ packages are simply standard UNIX TAR archives which have been compressed with gzip, just like any other .tar.gz file (the extension .tgz is used to be compatible with MS-DOS 8.3 filenames so slackware can be installed from a DOS partition. Slackware package names used to be limited to 8 characters, but that is no longer the case). The difference is there is an install directory in the archive which contains a doinst.sh file (among others) which is executed when the package is installed.<BR><BR>Debian .deb packages are "ar" archives containing a control.tar.gz file (installation scripts and other metadata) and a data.tar.gz file (files belonging to the package).<BR><BR>RPM uses a proprietary (although open) binary data format encasing a .tar.gz archive and metadata (somebody correct me if I'm wrong).

Okay, I will put them up and (hopefully) they will work