Uninstalling Useless Crap

stevenkan

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I RDPed into a bunch of headless machines this week to do some updates and maintenance, and fucking Copilot has shown up on every single one.

As I'm uninstalling it from every machine I also decide to uninstall every other bundled app that would never be used, ever, on these headless machines that normally never encounter humans. So I uninstall Paint:

1712182587497.png

WTF? So much for Windows 10 being a modern OS.
 

Lord Evermore

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There's nothing in uninstalling paint that should require a reboot.
There are enormous numbers of programs that don't do a damn thing that ought to require a reboot to either install or uninstall, but they still prompt you to do so. Everything works just fine without rebooting either way for many of them, but you never really know which one replaced a DLL or program-specific driver or something that may not be in use by anything else but was set up to be loaded on boot and now for some reason Windows can't remove that registry entry AND unload the DLL without being rebooted, and that's all that it's trying to do. The idea that Microsoft would somehow make Paint so deeply integrated into the OS, even as a Store app or an optional bundled app, that it would require a restart to remote it is not at all surprising. Just like repairing or removing Office really shouldn't affect anything else.

I wish we could go back to the days where everything that any application requires for itself was installed in its own single folder. And maybe only shared components that are not specific to a program (Visual C++ for example) get installed to a common folder, and those shared components are removed when the last program registered as using them gets removed, so a reboot is only ever required if it's the last one. (And if your program uses it then it MUST register as such in order to function.) And obviously, none of it is integrated with the OS itself so deeply that it can't be removed.
 

LordDaMan

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There are enormous numbers of programs that don't do a damn thing that ought to require a reboot to either install or uninstall, but they still prompt you to do so.

Yes, and about 90% of teh time it's a poorly written app using some old installer or some such nonsense. This doesn't apply to paint.
Everything works just fine without rebooting either way for many of them, but you never really know which one replaced a DLL or program-specific driver or something that may not be in use by anything else but was set up to be loaded on boot and now for some reason Windows can't remove that registry entry AND unload the DLL without being rebooted, and that's all that it's trying to do. The idea that Microsoft would somehow make Paint so deeply integrated into the OS, even as a Store app or an optional bundled app, that it would require a restart to remote it is not at all surprising.

It's Paint. paint doesn't do any of those things. In fact, it largely uses existing windows apis for various things.

Also, a store app, by design, doesn't require a reboot to uninstall store apps, again by design, can't trigger UAC to install. As far as I know the only exception to this is office.

Like I said, there's zero reason for paint to be triggering this, unless there's something else going on.

Just like repairing or removing Office really shouldn't affect anything else.
Office has a ton of shell extensions and hooks into windows. Various types of shell extensions, preview handlers, Ifilters, you name it


I wish we could go back to the days where everything that any application requires for itself was installed in its own single folder. And maybe only shared components that are not specific to a program (Visual C++ for example) get installed to a common folder, and those shared components are removed when the last program registered as using them gets removed, so a reboot is only ever required if it's the last one. (And if your program uses it then it MUST register as such in order to function.) And obviously, none of it is integrated with the OS itself so deeply that it can't be removed.
Again, the store takes care of all of this for you. That was the entire point of it in the first place, to have a central database of windows apps that can be easily installed and uninstalled.
 
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Paladin

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I honestly don't bother uninstalling those built in things anymore from a plain Windows install. Saving a couple hundred MB or even a couple GB is simply not worth it and O&O Shut Up is fine for turning off background processes and stuff, plus turning off startup items from various other programs takes care of the CPU and RAM wasters. Nothing that comes with Windows on a real fresh install (not an OEM shovelware install) is really bothersome to me. Most of what it looks like they have installed is just shortcuts to actually install stuff from the store (office, games, etc. are all just shortcuts or installer links).
 

Lord Evermore

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Like I said paint does not do this.

Frankly I think the OP fucked up windows somehow with DSIM and powershell and that's why this dialog came up.
Just because you've never seen it doesn't mean it can't happen.

Why are you so ANGRY about this? One would think you personally designed the way Store apps are installed and uninstalled and vet every single one of them before they're allowed to reach the public, and Microsoft has bombs implanted in your children to ensure you don't let any bad ones through.
 

LordDaMan

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Just because you've never seen it doesn't mean it can't happen.

Because it doesn't happen. There's something else happening here.
Why are you so ANGRY about this?
What are you even talking about?

One would think you personally designed the way Store apps are installed and uninstalled and vet every single one of them before they're allowed to reach the public, and Microsoft has bombs implanted in your children to ensure you don't let any bad ones through.
I'm thinking you are the one who's angry,
 

stevenkan

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Like I said paint does not do this.

Frankly I think the OP fucked up windows somehow with DSIM and powershell and that's why this dialog came up.
Nope. I just uninstalled Paint from an HP laptop that I never fucked up with DISM or PowerShell, and it presented the same dialog.

But I think we're all in violent agreement here; there's no reason Paint should require a reboot after uninstalling. Y'all aren't angry. I'm angry. 😂

For these PCs that control hardware and take automated measurements, I really want to have as clean an install as possible, because these days everything is a fucking potential vector.

Paint might seem like a completely innocuous app as of today, but just wait until Microsoft decides to automatically install an updated version with automated cloud upload to CoPilot, using any stored credentials it can find, plus an "enhancement" feature so their cloud AI can "improve" your Paint drawings, automatically. Because they want to be helpful.
 

Paladin

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If you're worried about that kind of thing, I would recommend you move those systems to Linux if possible. Still some similar issues but you have a lot more control over what gets installed or not.

If you need to keep them on Windows, just go for either the long term service versions, or Windows Server editions. You don't even have to activate them if you don't mind the nag on the screen and an occasional reboot.
 

stevenkan

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Must a phased roll out or something. I don't have it on any of my PCs, or maybe I already blocked it somehow?
Copilot is showing up for many now (it's on my 11 desktop, but I disabled the icon), but our IT has recently disabled the connections (from an enterprise standpoint, I can and can see why you wouldn't want ChatGPT or Copilot running around, at least from people potentially passing PII through it, but one of my coworkers was using ChatGPT to write Excel macros, now it's a broken connection).

I personally don't have a big problem either way, Apple put Siri on my Mac/iPhone (can't uninstall it), Windows desperately wants Copilot to be a thing. Google probably stuffs Gemini/Bard/whatever on ChromeOS. Everyone is racing to make AI a thing. For some things, I really like it, like predictive text in Word or NotebookLM from Google.

For me, I can't remember the last time I've worried about Windows or macOS components I don't use, storage space is just too cheap, plentiful, and fast that I can't be concerned in the slightest now.
 

Lord Evermore

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one of my coworkers was using ChatGPT to write Excel macros, now it's a broken connection
So the macro inside Excel depends on being able to talk to ChatGPT? Seems like a bad idea to make it depend on something outside of the computer, or at least the local network, even if it's only for your own use. If IT hasn't authorized you to install software on your PC, setting it up to connect to and depend on un-vetted software running on another computer seems like a workaround that deserves a write-up.

Or is he just writing a ton of macros and using ChatGPT to do it? And then claiming he's an Excel macro expert?
 

Lord Evermore

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Is the Microsoft task bar button anything different than a link to Bing, which has been pushing ChatGPT results for a while now?
But it's part of the OS, which IT installed on the PC (and allowed to be updated to add such features or allowed Bing searching to function, and a search query is different from directly linking to a file containing company data).

Note, I don't really think any of that's a problem in most cases, but just speaking from the perspective of a security focus, and the perspective of IT staff that are really doing their job as strictly and properly as possible to mitigate as many risks as possible.
 
So the macro inside Excel depends on being able to talk to ChatGPT? Seems like a bad idea to make it depend on something outside of the computer, or at least the local network, even if it's only for your own use. If IT hasn't authorized you to install software on your PC, setting it up to connect to and depend on un-vetted software running on another computer seems like a workaround that deserves a write-up.

Or is he just writing a ton of macros and using ChatGPT to do it? And then claiming he's an Excel macro expert?
No, the AI to write macros.

The connection that is broken is that IT blocked access to ChapGPT, Copilot, from the desktop etc. Although they can't block Bing, so it still can be used in Edge or Chrome. Not sure if my co-worker was using ChatGPT through a browser or not (we can't install programs, but oddly enough installing through the Microsoft store works).

We're not programmers here, just a bunch of lab scientists.
 

Lord Evermore

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(we can't install programs, but oddly enough installing through the Microsoft store works).
Well of course. Microsoft can totally be trusted to ensure that anything they allow on the Microsoft Store is completely safe.

It's by design that the MS Store apps are supposed to be able to install without admin rights. IT has to take extra steps to block such installations, but then that might prevent automatic updates of some normal trusted applications that MS moved to the store rather than being updated with Windows itself even though they come installed as part of Windows. Yay for safety and security.
 

Lord Evermore

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Windows store seems to have changed some things. If you download form the web store front it now gives you an exe file, which is just a stub to trigger the store download of that app.

Don't know when they switched from appx to this or even if it's for all apps.
I thought I read something not long ago about Microsoft deprecating the appx installer completely. They weren't going to make it available in Windows anymore and the only way to install anything would be through the Store. That may have only been something similar though; maybe the msix installer? Something to do with "packages" downloaded from sites that weren't .exe files.
 

LordDaMan

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I thought I read something not long ago about Microsoft deprecating the appx installer completely. They weren't going to make it available in Windows anymore and the only way to install anything would be through the Store. That may have only been something similar though; maybe the msix installer? Something to do with "packages" downloaded from sites that weren't .exe files.
I had to look this up. Msix is replacing msi and appx at some point


Also from what I gather, the web storefront used to give you appinstaller files, which are xml files that point to the correct msix packages and dependencies to install. They were always about 2k in size. The new exe installer lists itself as "storeinstaller.exe" and digitally signed by Microsoft