Samsung Dex...a potential "Killer Ap"

Jump to latest Follow Reply
E

Echohead2

Ars Legatus Legionis
60,035
  • #1
    Has anyone used Samsung Dex? It is basically a desktop environment using your smartphone.

    You connect a monitor to the phone (any number of ways, but USB3 to HDMI or USB3 to DisplayPort, or even USB3 to docking station that has ports for video, ethernet, USB, memory cards). and you can open up Dex which basically gets you a desktop computer.

    It looks like a typical desktop UI. You connect a keyboard/mouse and boom...desktop computer. What this means is that your smartphone can REALLY be your only computer. (I mean you COULD type out your 1,000 word essays on your phone, but really?).

    Is this a potential "Killer App"? A single item for all of your computer needs. They could even do a "laptop" that is just keyboard/screen/battery and you pop in your phone (which can act as your touchpad.

    (You can also do Dex though your laptop as a stand alone window, but I haven't tried that.
     
    E

    Echohead2

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    60,035
  • #3
    wrylachlan said:
    Why would I want one device when I can have 2? What’s the point?
    Click to expand...

    Simplicity? Only one device to deal with, one device to maintain, one set of software, one location for files, etc. (yeah, cloud solves some of that, and "maintenance" certainly ain't what it used to be).

    Cost savings? I mean, instead of a $1,000 phone and another $1,000 for a desktop setup (either actual desktop or laptop as desktop).
     
    W

    wrylachlan

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    12,769
    Subscriptor
  • #5
    Echohead2 said:
    wrylachlan said:
    Why would I want one device when I can have 2? What’s the point?
    Click to expand...

    Simplicity? Only one device to deal with, one device to maintain, one set of software, one location for files, etc. (yeah, cloud solves some of that, and "maintenance" certainly ain't what it used to be).

    Cost savings? I mean, instead of a $1,000 phone and another $1,000 for a desktop setup (either actual desktop or laptop as desktop).
    Click to expand...
    I feel like we’ve had this argument before but 5 years later I find the value proposition no more compelling. If you want it to drive a dumb terminal laptop you still need to pay for the screen and the battery to drive that screen and the connectivity to connect to your phone. Then you’re constraining the design of the dumb terminal laptop to have some sort of phone docking slot which pretty much guarantees that it will be thicker and uglier than existing thin and light laptops. So you’re not saving much money, ending up with a compromised design and… it’s sure as shit not simpler.

    If I want a tablet (narrator: He does want a tablet) how does that dock? Or is it something like wireless display streaming and wireless streaming the input back to the phone? In which case what does the added latency do to touch responsiveness especially when using a stylus for writing or drawing?

    If I want a desktop it’s largely to do things that require peak performance - significant data analyses in R. My phone is highly performant… but it’s not thaaaat performant. And it’s not designed to drive the number of pixels I want to push on my desktop.

    This just seems like a solution looking for a problem and not remotely “simpler” than the alternative.
     
    Z

    ZeroZanzibar

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    24,252
  • #6
    The one thing that the iPhone established for the entire industry is that touch and keyboard/mouse are divorced.

    We do not have a large stable of good, useful apps that run both touch and mouse/keyboard. The browser is a notable failure in this regard and has launched literally thousands of apps (apps that everyone from the local pizza joint to Fortune 50 companies all but beg you to install). Why? Because no business really wants to have its consumers experience its website on a phone. That's accommodation territory.

    If I need "fine control" of any kind, my phone isn't the place to go. Touch is great for many things, but one thing it has forced is a lot more defaulting, filling in the blanks, and much else that isn't relevant when I'm running Photoshop, writing code, or doing dozens of things. Places where a bunch of defaulting gets in the way instead of helping out.

    Have I edited images on a phone? Sure. Occasionally. It's just not the place I or most anyone else I know goes when you need to do something with fine control.

    Slapping a keyboard/mouse is going to do the same things that Windows Phone did: Suck at both; invite software groups to invest a lot in the wrong interface.

    Hard pass. Heck, even this site still looks like ass in a phone browser. And, it is geek central.
     
    K

    koala

    Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
    7,579
  • #8
    I used a modern USB-C friendly display and it was captivating.

    I think a good chunk of people would be well-served with just a phone, that they occasionally hook up via cable to a display, that in place has keyboard + mouse hooked in. I think a lot of people nowadays are phone-only, but they probably face occasional stuff *only at home* where they wish they had a larger setup (some light photo manipulation, typing a document/email/whatever). And spending just 200€ on a display, keyboard and mouse I think would be pretty compelling.

    I don't like tablets personally. A good USB display could be *cheaper* than a good tablet. And around the house, chromecasting is much more compelling to me.
     
    W

    wrylachlan

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    12,769
    Subscriptor
  • #9
    koala said:
    I used a modern USB-C friendly display and it was captivating.

    I think a good chunk of people would be well-served with just a phone, that they occasionally hook up via cable to a display, that in place has keyboard + mouse hooked in. I think a lot of people nowadays are phone-only, but they probably face occasional stuff *only at home* where they wish they had a larger setup (some light photo manipulation, typing a document/email/whatever). And spending just 200€ on a display, keyboard and mouse I think would be pretty compelling.

    I don't like tablets personally. A good USB display could be *cheaper* than a good tablet. And around the house, chromecasting is much more compelling to me.
    Click to expand...
    This is a pretty limited audience. People who are:
    1) Almost exclusively use the Phone for all computing
    2) Don’t own a tablet
    3) But have occasional need of a larger screen interface
    4) And can’t afford/ prefer not to get a computer for those large screen needs

    There’s not much of a market there.
     
    K

    koala

    Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
    7,579
  • #10
    Well...

    1) Seems to be a large group
    2) Well, this would replace a tablet. So even people who have a tablet now could consider this option when refreshing. I have to admit I'm that person who doesn't get tablets, but this combination sounds much more valuable than a tablet. I already thought tablets were not really useful, but now that everyone is carrying HUGE smartphones, I see even less value to them.
    3 and 4) go together. It's a value thing. USB-C displays are expensive nowadays, but I think this is an irregularity. I would think you could a decent display + mouse + keyboard for about 200€. That's bottom of the laptop market, so if you've spent money on a nice phone, you'll probably have a nicer phone than a 200€ laptop. And a laptop means taking care of maintenance- even if it's just keeping your settings in sync.

    I still think it's niche, but I think it's an option worth exploring. I don't know if this will succeed, but I expect more phone manufacturers trying out stuff...
     
    cogwheel

    cogwheel

    Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
    6,691
    Subscriptor
  • #11
    koala said:
    3 and 4) go together. It's a value thing. USB-C displays are expensive nowadays, but I think this is an irregularity. I would think you could a decent display + mouse + keyboard for about 200€. That's bottom of the laptop market, so if you've spent money on a nice phone, you'll probably have a nicer phone than a 200€ laptop. And a laptop means taking care of maintenance- even if it's just keeping your settings in sync.

    I still think it's niche, but I think it's an option worth exploring.
    Click to expand...
    Yeah, and hooking up a nice phone to monitor, keyboard, and mouse means you aren't using most of what makes said phone nice: the screen, cameras, touchscreen, and the niceness of the materials used in its construction. You're using only the SoC. Why not just get a Chromebook? That'll access all the same cloud-based apps you're already using on the phone (and the ones it can't wouldn't work with a docked phone anyway), but also be able to be used independently if necessary. You can get Chromebooks for pretty close to the cost of the monitor, keyboard, and mouse, whether you're going for just a cheap larger screen or a good larger screen.
     
    W

    wrylachlan

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    12,769
    Subscriptor
  • #12
    koala said:
    I still think it's niche, but I think it's an option worth exploring. I don't know if this will succeed, but I expect more phone manufacturers trying out stuff...
    Click to expand...
    It’s niche with not much of an off-ramp from niche status. I don’t begrudge phone makers trying to add to their value proposition, I just don’t see it ever catching on in the mass market. It’s a chicken and the egg problem: software devs need critical mass of consumers with a monitor+keys+mouse to plug their phone into in order to justify building a second keyboard and mouse interface for their phone apps. And consumers need critical mass of software that is usable in monitor mode to justify them shelling out for a monitor.

    The only player that has a strong developer ecosystem that spans from phones to desktop is Apple and they’re sure as shit not going down that road - their strategic play is to knit multiple devices together with iCloud, Continuity, and Handoff to make them act like a single device… so they can sell you both an iPhone and an iMac. MS and Google could do it with first party software, but that’s not a full featured software ecosystem and both would likely prefer you to buy multiple devices.
     
    E

    Echohead2

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    60,035
  • #13
    wrylachlan said:
    koala said:
    I used a modern USB-C friendly display and it was captivating.

    I think a good chunk of people would be well-served with just a phone, that they occasionally hook up via cable to a display, that in place has keyboard + mouse hooked in. I think a lot of people nowadays are phone-only, but they probably face occasional stuff *only at home* where they wish they had a larger setup (some light photo manipulation, typing a document/email/whatever). And spending just 200€ on a display, keyboard and mouse I think would be pretty compelling.

    I don't like tablets personally. A good USB display could be *cheaper* than a good tablet. And around the house, chromecasting is much more compelling to me.
    Click to expand...
    This is a pretty limited audience. People who are:
    1) Almost exclusively use the Phone for all computing
    2) Don’t own a tablet
    3) But have occasional need of a larger screen interface
    4) And can’t afford/ prefer not to get a computer for those large screen needs

    There’s not much of a market there.
    Click to expand...

    Are you sure about that, or just projecting your experience on the rest of the world? I mean something like 7 billion people have a smartphone and only about 1 billion have a "computer".

    Seems to me that the market is close to 6 billion.
     
    papadage

    papadage

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    41,731
    Subscriptor++
  • #14
    The minute a person who only has a phone needs a computer, it's usually for a specific use case beyond messaging and browsing.

    They will want some kind of specific document editing or drawing software for their kid, tax software, etc.

    That pushes them to platforms that provide the software. Almost no one will buy a portable monitor and keyboard to do this with a phone. It failed with Motorola also. Why will this time be different? A slightly better desktop is not enough.

    Most portable monitors are made to be used with laptops for people out of the office who need the additional space to spread work out and are powered by the laptops themselves. They often don't even come with power supplies.
     
    cogwheel

    cogwheel

    Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
    6,691
    Subscriptor
  • #16
    Echohead2 said:
    Are you sure about that, or just projecting your experience on the rest of the world? I mean something like 7 billion people have a smartphone and only about 1 billion have a "computer".

    Seems to me that the market is close to 6 billion.
    Click to expand...
    There are about 7.9 billion people on the planet, and most of them have two wrists. There are at most a few tens of million owners of Rolex watches. By your logic, the market for Rolex watches is over 15 billion.
     
    E

    Echohead2

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    60,035
  • #17
    papadage said:
    The minute a person who only has a phone needs a computer, it's usually for a specific use case beyond messaging and browsing.

    They will want some kind of specific document editing or drawing software for their kid, tax software, etc.

    That pushes them to platforms that provide the software. Almost no one will buy a portable monitor and keyboard to do this with a phone. It failed with Motorola also. Why will this time be different? A slightly better desktop is not enough.

    Most portable monitors are made to be used with laptops for people out of the office who need the additional space to spread work out and are powered by the laptops themselves. They often don't even come with power supplies.
    Click to expand...

    Why does it have to be portable? useful for a "desktop" at home. And there are more and more software going mobile. MS Office, photo editing, tax software, you name it.
     
    E

    Echohead2

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    60,035
  • #19
    cogwheel said:
    Echohead2 said:
    Are you sure about that, or just projecting your experience on the rest of the world? I mean something like 7 billion people have a smartphone and only about 1 billion have a "computer".

    Seems to me that the market is close to 6 billion.
    Click to expand...
    There are about 7.9 billion people on the planet, and most of them have two wrists. There are at most a few tens of million owners of Rolex watches. By your logic, the market for Rolex watches is over 15 billion.
    Click to expand...

    Odd comparison since you picked a luxury item and the discussion here is low end to SAVE money. To give more functionality for less money.
     
    cogwheel

    cogwheel

    Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
    6,691
    Subscriptor
  • #20
    Echohead2 said:
    cogwheel said:
    Echohead2 said:
    Are you sure about that, or just projecting your experience on the rest of the world? I mean something like 7 billion people have a smartphone and only about 1 billion have a "computer".

    Seems to me that the market is close to 6 billion.
    Click to expand...
    There are about 7.9 billion people on the planet, and most of them have two wrists. There are at most a few tens of million owners of Rolex watches. By your logic, the market for Rolex watches is over 15 billion.
    Click to expand...

    Odd comparison since you picked a luxury item and the discussion here is low end to SAVE money. To give more functionality for less money.
    Click to expand...
    It was the first thing that came to mind to illustrate the absurdity of your oversimplified logic. Not everyone who doesn't have an X is part of the market for X, for many reasons.

    Further, at the low end there are things like Chromebooks that cost pretty close to what a desktop monitor, keyboard, and mouse cost, yet provide more functionality than a docked phone (run on battery, can be used independently of phone, etc).

    Echohead2 said:
    And there are more and more software going mobile. MS Office, photo editing, tax software, you name it.
    Click to expand...
    All of the examples you've given are available as web apps, even if the phone-based versions are true native apps and not just web apps with a launcher wrapper. As such, they'd be available on things like Chromebooks and tablets. You're also ignoring that docked phone usage would need to be supported by each phone app, creating a last-mover chicken-and-egg scenario of the type that killed Windows Phone.
     
    E

    Echohead2

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    60,035
  • #21
    cogwheel said:
    Echohead2 said:
    cogwheel said:
    Echohead2 said:
    Are you sure about that, or just projecting your experience on the rest of the world? I mean something like 7 billion people have a smartphone and only about 1 billion have a "computer".

    Seems to me that the market is close to 6 billion.
    Click to expand...
    There are about 7.9 billion people on the planet, and most of them have two wrists. There are at most a few tens of million owners of Rolex watches. By your logic, the market for Rolex watches is over 15 billion.
    Click to expand...

    Odd comparison since you picked a luxury item and the discussion here is low end to SAVE money. To give more functionality for less money.
    Click to expand...
    It was the first thing that came to mind to illustrate the absurdity of your oversimplified logic. Not everyone who doesn't have an X is part of the market for X, for many reasons.

    Further, at the low end there are things like Chromebooks that cost pretty close to what a desktop monitor, keyboard, and mouse cost, yet provide more functionality than a docked phone (run on battery, can be used independently of phone, etc).
    Click to expand...

    Well you can get a keyboard, mouse, and 22-24" monitor fun $100 new.

    All of the examples you've given are available as web apps, even if the phone-based versions are true native apps and not just web apps with a launcher wrapper. As such, they'd be available on things like Chromebooks and tablets. You're also ignoring that docked phone usage would need to be supported by each phone app, creating a last-mover chicken-and-egg scenario of the type that killed Windows Phone.
    Click to expand...

    Have you tried it? Office worked pretty darn well. So did browsing. And as you say, plenty of apps are just wrapped webpages. Why? Becuase the web sucks on phones...but if on a monitor, you just use the website and don't need the app. I mean how many people use the Facebook app when on full sized monitor?

    I haven't had an app that wouldn't work on the larger monitor.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: D Fluke
    E

    Echohead2

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    60,035
  • #24
    wrylachlan said:
    At this point Dex is five years old on the best selling flagship Samsung phones. And it’s traction is precisely zilch in the marketplace. It seems as though the market has largely spoken.
    Click to expand...


    You are probably right...except I don't think the "market" knows it exists really. I have known about it for a long time, but just tried it. And it worked really well, imo. Surprisingly so. So much that I suspect that most people have no clue how well it works.

    Heck, it works well enough that when it comes time to replace my laptop...I'll have to really consider if I do or not and just use Dex.

    Also...how do smartphones from today compare to 5 year old smartphones? I suspect that the whole Dex experience is much better today on a Galaxy S22 versus say 5 years ago on a Galaxy S8...what do you think...think it would be better today?
     
    • Like
    Reactions: D Fluke
    W

    wrylachlan

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    12,769
    Subscriptor
  • #25
    Echohead2 said:
    wrylachlan said:
    At this point Dex is five years old on the best selling flagship Samsung phones. And it’s traction is precisely zilch in the marketplace. It seems as though the market has largely spoken.
    Click to expand...


    You are probably right...except I don't think the "market" knows it exists really. I have known about it for a long time, but just tried it. And it worked really well, imo. Surprisingly so. So much that I suspect that most people have no clue how well it works.

    Heck, it works well enough that when it comes time to replace my laptop...I'll have to really consider if I do or not and just use Dex.

    Also...how do smartphones from today compare to 5 year old smartphones? I suspect that the whole Dex experience is much better today on a Galaxy S22 versus say 5 years ago on a Galaxy S8...what do you think...think it would be better today?
    Click to expand...
    A better shitburger is still a shitburger.

    The problem for the whole Dex idea is that SoCs are fundamentally cheap for the class of problems that light users would have. You can get an el cheapo whole computer for just marginally more than the monitor and keys you’d need to make Dex work. And that computer can be used by your kids, your wife and whomever else while you’re out raking the lawn with your phone in your pocket. For a little more than that you can get a laptop that does everything Dex does AND can be used while rocking in your easy chair.

    The amount of money you’d save by not getting an SoC in your “computer” is minuscule. And the hassle of trying to find Dex-aware apps to do what you want instead of just grabbing their big-kid OS counterparts is not worth it.
     
    cogwheel

    cogwheel

    Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
    6,691
    Subscriptor
  • #26
    Echohead2 said:
    Heck, it works well enough that when it comes time to replace my laptop...I'll have to really consider if I do or not and just use Dex.
    Click to expand...
    You've got two choices here. Either you roll your own and deal with carrying around 2-4 devices (screen, keyboard & mouse or combo, power supply if needed by monitor since phone can't power it) plus the cables to connect it all together, and deal with the hassle of hooking it all together and taking it all apart every time you want to use it; or you buy a laptop form factor dock from a random Chinese company that still leaves your phone flopping around on the side that's just a Chromebook without the SoC yet still costs as much or more than the Chromebook.

    Personally, I'd choose a Chromebook if my needs were such that Dex could meet them. There are a lot more choices than the laptop-style docks, including higher end ones, and I can use it without having my phone on the table next to it.

    Echohead2 said:
    Also...how do smartphones from today compare to 5 year old smartphones? I suspect that the whole Dex experience is much better today on a Galaxy S22 versus say 5 years ago on a Galaxy S8...what do you think...think it would be better today?
    Click to expand...
    Well, the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 is about twice as fast as the Snapdragon 835. That said, the 835 isn't exactly a slow processor, so for light use there probably wouldn't be a huge difference.

    The biggest difference would probably be Android's perennial problem, OS updates. The S9 is stuck with Android 9, unless some 3rd party ROM builder tempts lawsuits by building one with Dex.

    wrylachlan said:
    The amount of money you’d save by not getting an SoC in your “computer” is minuscule.
    Click to expand...
    Yeah, the last time I looked into it, a flagship mobile SoC from Qualcomm was around $80 in quantity, and flagships have gotten powerful enough that non-flagships (say Snapdragon 7 series) should now easily be enough for a light use desktop/laptop.
     
    E

    Echohead2

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    60,035
  • #27
    wrylachlan said:
    Echohead2 said:
    wrylachlan said:
    At this point Dex is five years old on the best selling flagship Samsung phones. And it’s traction is precisely zilch in the marketplace. It seems as though the market has largely spoken.
    Click to expand...


    You are probably right...except I don't think the "market" knows it exists really. I have known about it for a long time, but just tried it. And it worked really well, imo. Surprisingly so. So much that I suspect that most people have no clue how well it works.

    Heck, it works well enough that when it comes time to replace my laptop...I'll have to really consider if I do or not and just use Dex.

    Also...how do smartphones from today compare to 5 year old smartphones? I suspect that the whole Dex experience is much better today on a Galaxy S22 versus say 5 years ago on a Galaxy S8...what do you think...think it would be better today?
    Click to expand...
    A better shitburger is still a shitburger.

    The problem for the whole Dex idea is that SoCs are fundamentally cheap for the class of problems that light users would have. You can get an el cheapo whole computer for just marginally more than the monitor and keys you’d need to make Dex work. And that computer can be used by your kids, your wife and whomever else while you’re out raking the lawn with your phone in your pocket. For a little more than that you can get a laptop that does everything Dex does AND can be used while rocking in your easy chair.

    The amount of money you’d save by not getting an SoC in your “computer” is minuscule. And the hassle of trying to find Dex-aware apps to do what you want instead of just grabbing their big-kid OS counterparts is not worth it.
    Click to expand...

    Keyboard, mouse, monitor, new for about $100...show me a computer that is about that much.

    Kids, wife, etc. would plug in THEIR phones.

    It's funny...if Apple did this you would be singing its praises.
     
    E

    Echohead2

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    60,035
  • #28
    cogwheel said:
    Echohead2 said:
    Heck, it works well enough that when it comes time to replace my laptop...I'll have to really consider if I do or not and just use Dex.
    Click to expand...
    You've got two choices here. Either you roll your own and deal with carrying around 2-4 devices (screen, keyboard & mouse or combo, power supply if needed by monitor since phone can't power it) plus the cables to connect it all together, and deal with the hassle of hooking it all together and taking it all apart every time you want to use it; or you buy a laptop form factor dock from a random Chinese company that still leaves your phone flopping around on the side that's just a Chromebook without the SoC yet still costs as much or more than the Chromebook.

    Personally, I'd choose a Chromebook if my needs were such that Dex could meet them. There are a lot more choices than the laptop-style docks, including higher end ones, and I can use it without having my phone on the table next to it.
    Click to expand...

    Well...considering that I haven't moved my laptop from my desk in about 2 years, the portability is actually not that big of a deal. On the go is just done on the phone. They are tablet sized these days.

    The biggest difference would probably be Android's perennial problem, OS updates. The S9 is stuck with Android 9, unless some 3rd party ROM builder tempts lawsuits by building one with Dex.
    Click to expand...

    This isn't actually that much of a problem. Since Google moved tons of things into the play store, you are still pretty up-to-date on tons of things. And others...not that big of a difference.

    Yeah, the last time I looked into it, a flagship mobile SoC from Qualcomm was around $80 in quantity, and flagships have gotten powerful enough that non-flagships (say Snapdragon 7 series) should now easily be enough for a light use desktop/laptop.
    Click to expand...

    Great...show me one!

    Show me a desktop computer for $100.

    and you can get portable screen, keyboard, mouse for about $200. $200 laptops generally suck pretty hard.
     
    W

    wrylachlan

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    12,769
    Subscriptor
  • #29
    Echohead2 said:
    Keyboard, mouse, monitor, new for about $100...show me a computer that is about that much.
    Click to expand...
    A quick Amazon search shows refurbs starting at around $250 and new devices around $350. If you go to more out of the way corners of the internet you can likely get them for even less. So a $150-$250 premium over the Dex solution.
    Kids, wife, etc. would plug in THEIR phones.
    Click to expand...
    Wait… so I need to get my kid a Dex-capable phone as well… so that cuts into the premium.
    It's funny...if Apple did this you would be singing its praises.
    Click to expand...
    So your assumption is that I like things that Apple does because I like Apple rather than I like Apple because I like what Apple does. Gotcha.

    It’s bizarre you would say this when Apple is going the exact opposite direction - they just put a very good mobile SoC - the A13 - into their dumb display. Even their dumb display is expected to have smarts to support things like ‘hey Siri’, audio processing for conferencing and imaging for FaceTime(yes they get a black eye for fucking up the software on the webcam.) So while you’re advocating a strategy of foregoing the SoC in anything but your main device, Apple is putting SoCs even into otherwise dumb devices.
     
    cogwheel

    cogwheel

    Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
    6,691
    Subscriptor
  • #30
    Echohead2 said:
    Great...show me one!

    Show me a desktop computer for $100.
    Click to expand...
    Pretty close. That's after the pandemic supply chain upcharge, those types of machines were going for $100-110 a couple years ago.

    Echohead2 said:
    and you can get portable screen, keyboard, mouse for about $200. $200 laptops generally suck pretty hard.
    Click to expand...
    A portable screen, keyboard, and mouse is far less portable than a laptop, though. If you really want it usable in all the places a laptop is, don't forget the power bank (the monitor needs external power, and the phone can't supply it) and the folding desk to put it on, plus the portable butler to set it all up for you.

    I'd counter your suck claim with the claim that for portability, Dex sucks very hard. You're either using one of those shitty laptop-style docks (so shitty screen, shitty keyboard, shitty trackpad, and shitty battery just like a $200 laptop) or you've got four or more things you have to set up on a desk and wire together every time you want to use it.
     
    E

    Echohead2

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    60,035
  • #31
    wrylachlan said:
    Echohead2 said:
    Keyboard, mouse, monitor, new for about $100...show me a computer that is about that much.
    Click to expand...
    A quick Amazon search shows refurbs starting at around $250 and new devices around $350. If you go to more out of the way corners of the internet you can likely get them for even less. So a $150-$250 premium over the Dex solution.
    Click to expand...

    Which means if you get refurbed kmv instead of $100...probably $50-60...so $50 vs. $200.

    Wait… so I need to get my kid a Dex-capable phone as well… so that cuts into the premium.
    Click to expand...

    How much is a Samsung Galaxy 8?
     
    E

    Echohead2

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    60,035
  • #32
    cogwheel said:
    Echohead2 said:
    Great...show me one!

    Show me a desktop computer for $100.
    Click to expand...
    Pretty close. That's after the pandemic supply chain upcharge, those types of machines were going for $100-110 a couple years ago.
    Click to expand...

    And ANOTHER $100 for the keyboard, mouse, monitor.

    A portable screen, keyboard, and mouse is far less portable than a laptop, though. If you really want it usable in all the places a laptop is, don't forget the power bank (the monitor needs external power, and the phone can't supply it) and the folding desk to put it on, plus the portable butler to set it all up for you.
    Click to expand...

    Huh...portable screens have batteries built in (well some do)...like 10k mah. and portable keyboards are pretty small.

    I'd counter your suck claim with the claim that for portability, Dex sucks very hard. You're either using one of those shitty laptop-style docks (so shitty screen, shitty keyboard, shitty trackpad, and shitty battery just like a $200 laptop) or you've got four or more things you have to set up on a desk and wire together every time you want to use it.
    Click to expand...

    It's like you only can shop well when you like the solution.

    https://www.amazon.com/Deco-Gear-Touchs ... 081D9HN6D/

    https://www.amazon.com/Foldable-Bluetoo ... 09MK2WXPH/


    Also...if you get that laptop...you can run dex on it. Which would probably be better experience than actually using laptop.
     
    papadage

    papadage

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    41,731
    Subscriptor++
  • #33
    That battery-powered monitor is almost the exact cost of a low-end Chromebook.

    You can get a decent convertible Chromebook for less than that and not deal with cables and dongles and still use your phone separately.

    https://www.amazon.com/HP-Chromebook-To ... =true&th=1

    That's $210 for a full system with a keyboard that folds back to make it a tent or tablet.
     
    Louis XVI

    Louis XVI

    Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
    9,981
    Subscriptor
  • #34
    wrylachlan said:
    At this point Dex is five years old on the best selling flagship Samsung phones. And it’s traction is precisely zilch in the marketplace. It seems as though the market has largely spoken.
    Click to expand...
    If Dex has existed for five years, and as big a tech nerd as me has never even heard of it until this thread, I’m thinking that perhaps it might not be the next big thing.
     
    cogwheel

    cogwheel

    Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
    6,691
    Subscriptor
  • #35
    Echohead2 said:
    cogwheel said:
    Echohead2 said:
    Great...show me one!

    Show me a desktop computer for $100.
    Click to expand...
    Pretty close. That's after the pandemic supply chain upcharge, those types of machines were going for $100-110 a couple years ago.
    Click to expand...

    And ANOTHER $100 for the keyboard, mouse, monitor.
    Click to expand...
    Goalpost shift. You asked for a desktop computer for $100 (in response to my comment that flagship SoCs are only about $80), as I quoted above. You did not ask for an AIO. Further, you'd still need to spend that $100 for a desktop keyboard, mouse, and monitor to use Dex, plus at that price point it won't be portable.

    Echohead2 said:
    A portable screen, keyboard, and mouse is far less portable than a laptop, though. If you really want it usable in all the places a laptop is, don't forget the power bank (the monitor needs external power, and the phone can't supply it) and the folding desk to put it on, plus the portable butler to set it all up for you.
    Click to expand...

    Huh...portable screens have batteries built in (well some do)...like 10k mah. and portable keyboards are pretty small.
    Click to expand...
    Since you've been yammering about cost, I was looking at cheap portable screens. Sure, you can get one with a battery built in, but it costs significantly more. Further, you're still dealing with three pieces minimum (screen, kb/mouse combo, phone) that don't connect to each other rigidly, so you still need a desk. You can't use it on your lap, like a laptop.

    Echohead2 said:
    I'd counter your suck claim with the claim that for portability, Dex sucks very hard. You're either using one of those shitty laptop-style docks (so shitty screen, shitty keyboard, shitty trackpad, and shitty battery just like a $200 laptop) or you've got four or more things you have to set up on a desk and wire together every time you want to use it.
    Click to expand...

    It's like you only can shop well when you like the solution.

    https://www.amazon.com/Deco-Gear-Touchs ... 081D9HN6D/

    https://www.amazon.com/Foldable-Bluetoo ... 09MK2WXPH/


    Also...if you get that laptop...you can run dex on it. Which would probably be better experience than actually using laptop.
    Click to expand...
    Again, as I said above, your screeching about cost meant I limited my search to the cheapest portable screens, which are around $130. Your linked solution is around $270 ($240 for the monitor with battery), not including the phone or the table to put all this on, and still has the same or worse keyboard and mouse as the cheap Chromebooks you decry, and probably the same screen.

    The Acer Chromebook 315 is only $280, is more portable and more usable out in the world than your gadget bag of parts, and can be used separately from your smartphone, and doesn't run down your smartphone's battery while being used (unless tethered to your phone, but that's no more battery use than Dex in the first place, so at worst it's a tie). If you want to play the "but IPS" card, then there's the $300 HP X360 14a (though it has a smaller 14" screen). Either way, you are getting a machine from an established brand instead of building a toolbag solution from no-brand stuff you found on Amazon.

    I'm beginning to suspect you've never used a laptop as anything other than a desktop replacement.
     
    E

    Echohead2

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    60,035
  • #36
    cogwheel said:
    Echohead2 said:
    cogwheel said:
    Echohead2 said:
    Great...show me one!

    Show me a desktop computer for $100.
    Click to expand...
    Pretty close. That's after the pandemic supply chain upcharge, those types of machines were going for $100-110 a couple years ago.
    Click to expand...

    And ANOTHER $100 for the keyboard, mouse, monitor.
    Click to expand...
    Goalpost shift. You asked for a desktop computer for $100 (in response to my comment that flagship SoCs are only about $80), as I quoted above. You did not ask for an AIO. Further, you'd still need to spend that $100 for a desktop keyboard, mouse, and monitor to use Dex, plus at that price point it won't be portable.
    Click to expand...

    It's not a goal post shift. How are you going to use that computer WITHOUT a keyboard, mouse, and monitor?

    As for portable....that is what the PHONE is for!

    Since you've been yammering about cost, I was looking at cheap portable screens. Sure, you can get one with a battery built in, but it costs significantly more. Further, you're still dealing with three pieces minimum (screen, kb/mouse combo, phone) that don't connect to each other rigidly, so you still need a desk. You can't use it on your lap, like a laptop.
    Click to expand...

    Why are you so focused on laptops? For one-the-go, you just use your phone!

    I'm beginning to suspect you've never used a laptop as anything other than a desktop replacement.
    Click to expand...

    and I suspect you are working really hard to build a strawman.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: D Fluke
    cogwheel

    cogwheel

    Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
    6,691
    Subscriptor
  • #37
    Echohead2 said:
    It's not a goal post shift. How are you going to use that computer WITHOUT a keyboard, mouse, and monitor?
    Click to expand...
    It's a goalpost shift because I never said a desktop computer with monitor, keyboard, and mouse cost $100. I only said the part of a phone you're reusing for Dex was pretty cheap itself. I have never maintained that a functional computer including monitor, keyboard, and mouse would cost the same as just the monitor, keyboard, and mouse, just that the price differential now (see Chromebooks, which also include a battery) and potentially in the future (a desktop AIO using a SoC like a Snapdragon 7 Series, which admittedly doesn't exist yet AFAIK) is small enough that most people would probably find the non-Dex solution useful enough to be worth the extra.

    If you want to bluster about total cost, you're absolutely full of shit. Dex only works on select Samsung phones, the lowest end of which are the Galaxy S FE series at $700. At that point, you could get a Nokia G50 and a midrange Chromebook or low end Win10 laptop. Or, you could get two moto G power (2022) phones for your family plus that HP X360 14a I mentioned in an earlier post. And that's before spending $100 or more for the monitor/kb/mouse for Dex.

    I can already hear you whine "but used!" Guess what, you can get used laptops and desktops, too. You could get a used business-grade laptop, which would clearly not be a shitty laptop.

    In short, Dex is a rich man's toy. Your S20+ is a $1200 phone!

    Echohead2 said:
    Why are you so focused on laptops? For one-the-go, you just use your phone!
    Click to expand...
    Then why have you been talking about portable monitors and portable kb/mouse combos?

    and I suspect you are working really hard to build a strawman.
    Click to expand...
    Dex has been out for five years, shows no signs of any traction, and its precursor, the Motorola Lapdock, was an utter failure, and I'm the one building a strawman? You go on and on about $100 worth of monitor, keyboard, and mouse, and then link a $240 portable monitor after claiming I can't find cheap stuff if I don't want to, and I'm the one building a strawman?

    You go on and on about adding $100 worth of monitor/kb/mouse to a $700-$1900 phone to maybe save $100, and I'm the one building a strawman?
     
    E

    Echohead2

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    60,035
  • #38
    cogwheel said:
    In short, Dex is a rich man's toy. Your S20+ is a $1200 phone!
    Click to expand...

    In short, a computer is a rich man's toy.
    In short, cell phone is a rich man's toy.
    In short, smart phone is a rich man's toy.
    In short, GPS is a rich man's toy.
    In short, Digital Camera is a rich man's toy.

    Etc....It won't always be. Today a Samsung S8 is around $100-200 it looks like.

    Then why have you been talking about portable monitors and portable kb/mouse combos?
    Click to expand...

    I only did that because you took it that way.

    Dex has been out for five years, shows no signs of any traction,
    Click to expand...

    ahh...so if a technology doesn't gain traction immediately it is a failure. So I guess smartphones were a disaster because they were out for years before tehy really took off. They took off when the technology reached a certain point that the iPhone could be made.


    And consider this...

    How many people own a smartphone, tablet, laptop, and a desktop?

    Few? Why? Oh...they replaced their desktop with a laptop? Why? What was the point? Use all of your arguments against that and see where it gets you.

    how many have tablet and laptop (and carry both with them)?

    You seem to think people want MORE computers, and I think they want less. That is why so many people don't have a desktop or use their laptop was desktop with external KMV. That is why so many people buy 2-in-1 laptops...because it replaces their laptop, tablet, and desktop.

    Why don't people carry around a digital camera, GPS, etc. with them? Because their phone does it. People want FEWER devices, not more.
     
    W

    wrylachlan

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    12,769
    Subscriptor
  • #39
    Echohead2 said:
    People want FEWER devices, not more.
    Click to expand...
    I don’t think this is necessarily true. People don’t want multiple devices that are similar ergonomically when one will do (see Phone taking over from standalone cameras), but they have no problem at all owning both a phone and a tablet. They have no problem at all owning a phone and a watch. They have no problem at all owning a phone and a TV - hell I have friends with a TV in practically every room.

    I think you’re over indexing on phones demolishing of the standalone GPS and camera markets and interpreting that as “people always want a Swiss Army knife.” I don’t think it’s universally true. People have little problem owning multiple devices when each is in its own ergonomic category. I have yet to meet a tablet owner who wishes that their phone drove the UI and the tablet was just a dumb screen.
     
    Y

    YoHo

    Ars Praefectus
    4,319
  • #40
    This thread is making me angry.

    Dex sounds really dumb. If you're rich enough (or hopped up on enough credit) to be buying higher end Samsung phones, you probably don't care about costs and are just going to buy the tools that make sense for you. And if you do care enough about cost that an all in one would plausibly make sense, you're buying a motorola G Powers and giving Samsung and their aspersions to apple the middle finger.
     
    You must log in or register to reply here.
    Jump to latest Follow Reply
    Jump to latest Follow Reply