RCS messaging is 'the new SMS'

Apple announces surprise adoption of RCS messaging, 'the new SMS'​

According to ABC News (Australia):


In a surprise move, technology giant Apple says 2024 will see it adopt the RCS messaging standard that aims to eventually replace SMS, allowing for improved messaging between smartphones running different operating systems, such as Google's Android.

Apple says that RCS messages will still be green, while iMessages will still be superior and blue. They say that RCS messages' encryption and security is inferior, but that they will work with authorities to improve RCS encryption.

Oh, pardon me. I didn't notice the ars article at:
 
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Nevarre

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I've seen people asserting that RCS messages will have a green bubble, but I haven't seen credible proof of that. If Apple doesn't at least come up with a 3rd option (like RCS is teal or something) would make a bad situation even worse. SMS isn't going away, and if green signifies "outside of iMessage" then instead of knowing your texts are insecure you might not know easily if they're insecure SMS or secure RCS.

It also does zero to address the extremely valid and serious bullying/social stigma issues.
 
...you might not know easily if they're insecure SMS or secure RCS.
Apparently, Apple is going to support the published standard RCS, not the Google-extended RCS. This means insecure RCS and insecure SMS.

Although they have said that they hope to cooperate and improve the standard to include E2E encryption. But standards take a long time to be updated.
 
It also does zero to address the extremely valid and serious bullying/social stigma issues.
I wouldn't say it does zero. It doesn't entirely resolve the issues, but it will make some improvements to some of the issues that can generate the stigma. For example being able to include everyone in a group chat is a big deal. If RCS resolves this, while using green bubbles, then the green bubbles would have less reason to be stigmatised. But I agree that it doesn't completely resolve the issue.
 

Mark086

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.

It also does zero to address the extremely valid and serious bullying/social stigma issues.

I don't give a shit.
The type of people that bully based on that also bully based on the type of car people drive in highschool.

Maybe the solution to that problem is elsewhere.
 

cateye

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I've seen people asserting that RCS messages will have a green bubble, but I haven't seen credible proof of that.

Supposedly Apple confirmed that any non-iMessage bubbles will remain green.

I can't decide which makes me facepalm more, that someone was concerned enough to submit the question through Apple's media channels in the first place, or that someone at Apple took the time to answer. I'm kind of with Mark086 on this one: The bubbles aren't the problem. People's innate, ridiculous need to organize into tribes will be the death of us all (he says, posting in the Battlefront... :D )
 

ZnU

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Making non-E2E messages blue is a total non-starter at this point, I think. Given the widespread understanding that blue means iMessage, and years of marketing around iMessage security features, it might even draw lawsuits.

This is all a bit tricky because you can have a single conversation with multiple message types, so you legitimately do need an indication of the status of each individual message. Plus you need to see how a message will be sent before you send it, which iMessage does with placeholder text in the input field.

Once E2E-encrypted RCS messages are possible those should appear blue, IMO. With the additional complexity at that point (four types of message, iMessage, RCS E2E, RCS non-E2E, SMS), Apple should have the input field explicitly indicate whether the message to be sent will be E2E, either by modifying the placeholder description text or with a lock icon or something. They should also add an option, on by default, to never fall back to sending via an unencrypted protocol if the app indicated the message would be encrypted.
 

Nevarre

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Supposedly Apple confirmed that any non-iMessage bubbles will remain green.

I can't decide which makes me facepalm more, that someone was concerned enough to submit the question through Apple's media channels in the first place, or that someone at Apple took the time to answer. I'm kind of with Mark086 on this one: The bubbles aren't the problem. People's innate, ridiculous need to organize into tribes will be the death of us all (he says, posting in the Battlefront... :D )

Saw that this morning, that Apple clarified their position on encryption and 'green bubbles.' I retract my statement that it was unclear because it was clarified later in the day.

It's still malicious compliance on the part of Apple, accepting it "as written" not RCS as it's used (with E2E encryption) and kicking the can down the road on encryption. It's still a PR stunt to make them look good while doing the barest minimum, upstaging Sunbird/Nothing and refusing to work constructively on an encrypted solution.

But this is the same Tim Cook who backed out of Steve Jobs promise to open iMessage to other platforms as the technology matured. "Buy your mom an iPhone" and all that.
 
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cateye

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To be clear, Jobs only referenced FaceTime. Why that never happened is not something I've personally ever seen directly addressed. "Reasons," I'm sure (hand-wave). TBH, I think it was an empty promise. There was never any motion in that direction under Jobs or under Cook.

Rumors have also suggested that Apple has mulled opening up iMessage more than once; I suspect there are voices within Apple that continue to argue in favor of that, as there are assuredly voices that argue against. The latter just seems to keep winning, for now. But more broadly, post-Jobs Apple is more pragmatic and, I think, less top-down, my-way-or-the-highway. Those of us enmeshed in the ecosystem have seen Apple more willing as the years pass to strategically backtrack and embrace things that would "never have happened if Jobs were alive."

Apple is more normal now, really. They're a massive company and operate like one, rather than like some pirate ship trying to keep everyone guessing by speaking and operating at the extremes.
 
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Saw that this morning, that Apple clarified their position on encryption and 'green bubbles.' I retract my statement that it was unclear because it was clarified later in the day.

It's still malicious compliance on the part of Apple, accepting it "as written" not RCS as it's used (with E2E encryption) and kicking the can down the road on encryption. It's still a PR stunt to make them look good while doing the barest minimum, upstaging Sunbird/Nothing and refusing to work constructively on an encrypted solution.

But this is the same Tim Cook who backed out of Steve Jobs promise to open iMessage to other platforms as the technology matured. "Buy your mom an iPhone" and all that.

It really doesn't matter anyway. There are only a handful of countries where people haven't switched en masse to cross-platform OTT messaging apps. So even if iMessage and Google Messages gain some form of RCS interoperability why would people give up using apps that already work, and in most cases are superior?

If you really want to solve the messaging problem everyone adopting a single app beats a common protocol hands down, as it can evolve and roll out changes a hell of a lot faster. If WhatsApp has a good idea that can code it and ship it. With RCS you have a whole load of bureaucracy to deal with to get stakeholders to agree to changes and them implement them in a timely fashion, something I'm sure that Apple will be keen to do as fast as possible to help Google make RCS a thing.

As mad as it seemed at the time Facebook buying WhatsApp for a zillion dollars for the userbase was a genius move. Google should have gotten there first.
 

Nevarre

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I can't stress enough -- in a way that makes no sense for the many, many countries where WhatsApp is the most common standard-- that WhatsApp adoption in the US is very limited and very situational. WhatsApp had almost zero market before Facebook bought them and now many users are not interested in using a Meta product. If it would have stayed independent or been bought by Google (and not killed) or whatever that might be a different story. I'm a user. It's superior to RCS and iMessage in a lot of ways. I in no way dislike the WhatsApp product but I use it because I communicate with Europeans and the only conversations I'm in on WhatsApp are ones that are directly to Europeans or include Europeans. Full stop. I can't imagine a situation where I would be in a WhatsApp chat with an American because that's just so far out of the norm of messaging platforms that are used. That's typical across pretty much all US-based users that WhatsApp is not even an app that they have. WhatsApp is only now trying to advertise, but uptake is very low on both the Android and iOS side.

Apple got there first in the North American market and has built an entire culture around iMessage and the blue/green bubble issue. Drake writes songs about women who have a green bubble. There are groups of people who reject dates if their chat is green, etc. Apple owns the US market and that trend is extremely stark among younger generations. Age 13-19, iPhone ownership is >85%, some surveys placing it more like 90%, because parents are choosing to buy iPhones at least in part so their kids aren't bullied. Because WhatsApp completely lost the US market, the decision to switch platforms is a serious one-- if you lose your chats by migrating from iMessage, then you're probably not going to buy an Android device. If you're on WhatsApp on Apple no big-- back up your chats and restore them on the new phone and you can switch platforms if you want. That's not a reality for most iPhone users in the US. Facebook Messenger is probably the closest analog to how most other countries use WhatsApp, but the die hard anti-Meta people break that as a universal messaging tool. (I'm not saying that being anti-Meta is a bad idea, but it does limit the usefulness of any alternative that Meta owns.)
 

Mark086

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To be clear, Jobs only referenced FaceTime. Why that never happened is not something I've personally ever seen directly addressed. "Reasons," I'm sure (hand-wave). TBH, I think it was an empty promise. There was never any motion in that direction under Jobs or under Cook.
shortly after launch of FaceTime Apple was sued for patent violations.

Opening the protocol would have been "encouraging others" to violate the patent and would make them liable for all such infringement. Maybe if they opened it before the suit they could have avoid that, but once sued that coin was tossed.

I don't think you'll find a definitive statement from Apple that's the reason, but it takes years for patent disputes to get resolved fully.

(I'm reluctant to check at the moment on its status, last I heard was further appeals). Patent bullshit just pisses me off.
 
Apple got there first in the North American market and has built an entire culture around iMessage and the blue/green bubble issue. Drake writes songs about women who have a green bubble. There are groups of people who reject dates if their chat is green, etc. Apple owns the US market and that trend is extremely stark among younger generations. Age 13-19, iPhone ownership is >85%, some surveys placing it more like 90%, because parents are choosing to buy iPhones at least in part so their kids aren't bullied. Because WhatsApp completely lost the US market, the decision to switch platforms is a serious one-- if you lose your chats by migrating from iMessage, then you're probably not going to buy an Android device. If you're on WhatsApp on Apple no big-- back up your chats and restore them on the new phone and you can switch platforms if you want. That's not a reality for most iPhone users in the US. Facebook Messenger is probably the closest analog to how most other countries use WhatsApp, but the die hard anti-Meta people break that as a universal messaging tool. (I'm not saying that being anti-Meta is a bad idea, but it does limit the usefulness of any alternative that Meta owns.)

What you say is correct, the point is it doesn't matter for 90% of the planet. Cross-platform apps already won, WeChat, Line, Telegram, WhatsApp and more. The fact that Google Messages and iMessage may interoperate to a degree, almost certainly not fully, does nothing for most of the world.

At best RCS will become the new fallback for when an app's own messaging is unavailable, in the same way that SMS/MMS is now. I've had RCS available on all the carriers I use for years now. I have never used it, and in fact turn it off, because nobody really uses "texting" at all anymore. If I get an SMS it was 99% of the time sent by some IT system not a real live person.

Even with Google championing RCS it remains a telecoms designed service, that will likely remain behind the times and somewhat fragmented. The only thing that might move the needle would be Google and Apple declaring RCS is the future of both their messaging services and taking full control of it, and that isn't what is happening.

Basically I don't think Apple supporting RCS solves anything, it will just mean there is a less bad fallback.
 
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Nevarre

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What you say is correct, the point is it doesn't matter for 90% of the planet. Cross-platform apps already won, WeChat, Line, Telegram, WhatsApp and more. The fact that Google Messages and iMessage may interoperate to a degree, almost certainly not fully, does nothing for most of the world.

To a massive degree more so than most Americans I completely understand that fact, and that's not being argued here at all. If you're in Europe, you use WhatsApp. If you're in Japan you use Line, etc. If you poll most Americans, a very high percentage won't even know what any of those apps are.

The fact remains that in the N. American market (a market that's not quite the population of the EU, but not insignificant at ~370m people for the US and Canada alone) that cross-platform messaging apps are mostly not used, with the minor exceptions of Facebook Messenger (for some adults) and Snapchat (for younger people, although Snapchat isn't quite the same thing.)

In Apple's home market, because of Apple's marketing and various historical carrier restrictions, they've convinced users to only use iMessage leaving everyone else incompatible. US Carriers generally don't bother supporting RCS now generally speaking because why bother when most of your customers use iMessage anyway. The fallback remains SMS.

iMessage adding RCS is only a minor footnote to markets where there's an alternative. In Apple's home market, it is a big deal. If I could convince all iPhone users to use WhatsApp for their primary messaging platform and only fall back to iMessage when there was no other choice, then we wouldn't have this problem... but that is not remotely reality in the US. That is just not how users use their phones here. At all.
 
To a massive degree more so than most Americans I completely understand that fact, and that's not being argued here at all. If you're in Europe, you use WhatsApp. If you're in Japan you use Line, etc. If you poll most Americans, a very high percentage won't even know what any of those apps are.

The fact remains that in the N. American market (a market that's not quite the population of the EU, but not insignificant at ~370m people for the US and Canada alone) that cross-platform messaging apps are mostly not used, with the minor exceptions of Facebook Messenger (for some adults) and Snapchat (for younger people, although Snapchat isn't quite the same thing.)

In Apple's home market, because of Apple's marketing and various historical carrier restrictions, they've convinced users to only use iMessage leaving everyone else incompatible. US Carriers generally don't bother supporting RCS now generally speaking because why bother when most of your customers use iMessage anyway. The fallback remains SMS.

iMessage adding RCS is only a minor footnote to markets where there's an alternative. In Apple's home market, it is a big deal. If I could convince all iPhone users to use WhatsApp for their primary messaging platform and only fall back to iMessage when there was no other choice, then we wouldn't have this problem... but that is not remotely reality in the US. That is just not how users use their phones here. At all.

I understand what you are getting at, but I still think RCS support does little to resolve the issues. You can guarantee that if Apple is forced to support RCS, or even MLS, there will be iMessage only features that mean that RCS is still seen as a downgrade and an impediment to messaging in the same way that the fallback to SMS/MMS currently is. It's not like Apple are promising some sort of transparent interoperability where it won't matter if people are communicating with different apps. All Apple are doing is proposing to add RCS as a fallback when iMessage is unavailable, and probably as a sop to regulators rather than a true effort to fix the issues that pervade iMessage connections to non Apple platforms.
 

Nevarre

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No, and specifically avoiding E2E encryption allows Apple the justification to continue to use green chat bubbles in iMessage for RCS just as they do now for SMS/MMS.

If implemented properly, it'll help group chats as it will allow full resolution images and video, should handle things like reactions a little less awkwardly ("soandso liked your message" for SMS clients instead of a thumbs up emoji under the message) -- Google Messages intercepts these on the fly but they exist in the background still-- and iMessage users might finally see when an Android user is typing. RCS messages as Apple is wanting to implement them will still break encryption for group chats in iMessage as long as there's at least one non-iMessage user.

That's probably all of the practical changes likely, and Apple might not implement all of those.
 

wrylachlan

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I think people are maybe missing the genius of iMessage for the normal user. By using a secure system that transparently falls back to a universal system you take all the network effects issues out of your app. You can send a text message to literally anyone in the world who has a phone number in Messages. They’re not on FaceBook Messenger? No problem, Messages can reach them. They’re not on WhatsApp? No problem, Messages can reach them. They’re not on [insert closed system]? No problem, Messages can reach them.

For terminally online connected people, having a handful of communication apps is totally normal. But it’s still a shitty user experience to have to consider which channel to use to reach someone. It would be great if the tech world could coalesce around a single standard that didn’t suck for text, audio and video. But until that happens having a fallback to a universal standard - even if it’s not a great universal standard - makes for a pretty great user experience.
 
The "strongest" comments in here are in regards to:

Apple is bad for Green chat bubbles.
Apple is bad for implementing RCS to the GSM agreed specification.

There is nothing bad about Apple implementing RCS, it is certainly better than SMS/MMS, but it doesn't really solve the iMessage issue at hand, which is that you have to have an Apple device in order to use iMessage fully.

I used to think RCS was going to fix things, that we'd all move to RCS and proprietary messaging systems would wither, but that's clearly not the case, because telecoms standard bodies and carriers are by and large run by jerks who are far more interested in figuring out how to monetise things than in solving customer problems. For years carriers treated RCS as a proprietary system, they didn't seem too concerned about making it useful for wider communication. Google has had to damn near hijack RCS in order to breathe some life into it, and it's still going nowhere slowly. RCS is now effectively Google's toy, and whilst Google can shove Messages and RCS onto every Android phone with Google Play Services there is little incentive for users to use it when better cross-platform apps already exist.

If you want high quality cross-platform messaging either we all need to use the same apps. Which is what has happened in most countries where a messaging app has gained a majority of users. Or we all need to use the same protocols, and not as a fallback but as a first choice. Apple incorportating RCS doesn't change the fundamental problem that when you communicate outside of iMessage the experience is degraded, it will still be degraded to a degree even with RCS support. As better alternatives exist and are highly popular* it's hard to see many people abandoning OTT apps for Google Messages or iMessage.


* If you look at some of the stats about WhatsApp it achieves usage rates in some European countries that are on a par or greater than things like the Google search engine, Windows, the Chrome browser, or Android. It's not just the most used app in some countries, it may be the most used software or service entirely.
 

koala

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The situation is sad, really. Phone calls are not perfect, but I can call any phone number in the world with no issues, and I have many multiple providers I can pick and choose from.

For IM? In Spain, I am FORCED to use Whatsapp and have Meta proprietary code in my phone (it's the "standard" for communicating it- I need it to communicate with my building manager, my landlord... even with some companies). I don't care for EE2E (but I'm happy that it's available to people).

RCS is not going to work in Spain- texting here is unusual, and many cellphone providers charge by message sent. With Whatsapp dominating, I don't see that changing.

My dream would be to have an open protocol where I can plug in at least any third-party client I want. Telegram does this (I'm using it bridged to IRC, even!), but it has also many other issues.

(I don't even need to be able to run my own server and federate with the world at large. I'm good with having client choice. The other thing I don't want is to be at the whim of an individual private company. If Meta wants, they can force me to get a new phone number- and that bothers me a lot.)

(With third party clients, anyone could implement whatever E2EE they would want on top of any IM network, BTW...)

My big hope right now is that the EU forces Whatsapp to interop. That would be good enough for me.
 
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wco81

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The only marketing I’ve seen for Apple Messages are the keynote demos of animated emojis and things like stickers and other features most people don’t use regularly.

I don’t ever recall seeing advertising for it and there are iPhone TV ads on all the time.

Only teens bully about green bubbles and that’s only in the US right?

Is the contention that Messages is the main reason for iPhone market share in the US?


What about in Europe, where the EU may regulate it under the DMA or DSA? Most people use WhatsApp and iPhone share in EU countries is small, often less than 1/3.

RCS support may be an attempt to reduce DMA/DSA targeting.
 

Nevarre

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Only teens bully about green bubbles and that’s only in the US right?

It's far from only teenagers involved although the younger you are the greater your chances. There are great articles about 20-somethings using dating apps and as soon as they go from DMs in dating apps to iMessage, one party will ghost the other if it's not an iMessage blue chat in return. I'm a grown ass adult and have been teased and shamed for my phone choice by iPhone users (who are often annoyed I can't participate in their proprietary services without owning/using an iDevice or Mac.)

Is the contention that Messages is the main reason for iPhone market share in the US?

1.) Please be precise in naming things. "Messages" is the Google-provided Android client software for both RCS (including E2E encryption) and SMS/MMS. "iMessage" is the Apple-only messaging platform that is universal between iDevices and the Mac based on your Apple account ID. iMessage will also accept SMS messages, but that downgrades the chat such that it only has the capabilities of SMS/MMS. To add confusion, "Messenger" is the Meta/Facebook alternative messaging/video platform and although the market is nowhere near as universal as WhatsApp in Europe, it's probably the closest 2nd in the US market to iMessage for a full-featured chat application. Using RCS is still somewhat rare in the US simply because there aren't enough people out there who both use an Android phone and use Google Messages, since carriers and OEMs try to force their own SMS/MMS programs to be used it's not universal on Android devices. I use Messages but exceedingly few of my chats are RCS.

2.) Why Apple has hyper-dominant marketshare in the US is complex but there are two big factors at play: It's the fashionable and in-crowd choice to make. There's a tribalism aspect for sure. The whole culture revolves around the iPhone being an object that everyone just has. Songs, TikToks, etc. all reference the iPhone or its features and pretty much never reference anything else. One way to tell from a distance if you're "in" or "out" of the social norm is the color of your chat bubbles. It's also the case that Apple's ecosystem more broadly is designed to get you to use one item, then use services then use more items and more services until it's the case that you're so deeply entrenched that it's very difficult to get out of the ecosystem.* If you only use an iPhone and no other Apple devices and are not deeply entrenched in Apple's ecosystem, you probably do still use iMessage as your primary messaging platform and FaceTime as your primary video chat platform. Those two alone have fairly significant lock-in effects-- even if you don't subscribe to any other services, or have your phone/services tied to an Apple Watch or Mac etc. If you give up iMessage you can still SMS/MMS with iPhone users obviously, but then the social stigma comes in. If you lived in a WhatsApp country who gives a crap-- you probably use WhatsApp for texting and video anyway. Sub in whatever other app for whatever other country, but in NA Apple is in a unique gatekeeper position in that they are both the de-facto app and the de-facto platform that just happens to be a closed platform.

There's some lock-in effects to all of the above in Europe, although WhatsApp serves as an escape valve for people who haven't entered into the entire ecosystem yet. If you look at trends, though, you see iPhone uptake increasing in EU countries and with it at least some iMessage use.

* To be fair, Samsung and Google both independently and jointly are trying to get the consumer to buy into services and features that tend towards lock-in, but most of the time those products and services can also be used on iPhone or using the web on any device so those lock in features are much weaker.

What about in Europe, where the EU may regulate it under the DMA or DSA? Most people use WhatsApp and iPhone share in EU countries is small, often less than 1/3.

Brexit skews the numbers downward, as iPhone usage in the UK is in pretty close accordance with the US and Canada, but yes-- it's "small" if 1/3 of the market is small. It's also a growing percentage of iPhone users in many EU markets. Europe is in the situation where the US was maybe 10 years ago in terms of having vibrant competition still, but the US market should be a warning to the EU -- one where Apple has captured the majority of users and the overwhelming majority of the young and of economically well-off people of any age.

From a DMA perspective Apple is arguing that they're not a digital gatekeeper for messaging within the EU market for all of the current conditions in the EU market, including the fact that while lots of people have iMessage, relatively few people use it for anything but the rare SMS message they can't get any other way.

RCS support may be an attempt to reduce DMA/DSA targeting.

It absolutely is a large part of that decision on the part of Apple, and the specific timing of the already-decided action was made to cause maximum PR advantage for Apple and maximum embarrassement to Nothing.

The EU appears to be the only body capable of nudging Apple towards any sort of meaningful regulation-- USB-C would probably not have happened on the iPhone 15 otherwise.
 
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lithven

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The only marketing I’ve seen for Apple Messages are the keynote demos of animated emojis and things like stickers and other features most people don’t use regularly.

I don’t ever recall seeing advertising for it and there are iPhone TV ads on all the time.
Isn't it just bundled and used by default in the iPhone "system"? I would say the lack of advertising and need to get people to choose to adopt it is an argument in favor of market power in one area (mobile devices) being used for unfair competition in other areas (mobile communication).
 

Mark086

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It's far from only teenagers involved although the younger you are the greater your chances. There are great articles about 20-somethings using dating apps and as soon as they go from DMs in dating apps to iMessage, one party will ghost the other if it's not an iMessage blue chat in return. I'm a grown ass adult and have been teased and shamed for my phone choice by iPhone users (who are often annoyed I can't participate in their proprietary services without owning/using an iDevice or Mac.)

Seems to me it's a filter for maturity. Working as designed.
 
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Nevarre

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Seems to me it's a filter for maturity. Working as designed.

Victim blaming is not working as desired.

Perpetuating the cycle of exclusion is not working as designed.

It may be pointing out that most teenagers and some adults are kind of assholes, but alternatively you can choose to avoid the shame only by buying into the iOS ecosystem.
 

Mark086

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Victim blaming is not working as desired.

Perpetuating the cycle of exclusion is not working as designed.

It may be pointing out that most teenagers and some adults are kind of assholes, but alternatively you can choose to avoid the shame only by buying into the iOS ecosystem.
Bahahaha.

Wasn't victim blaming.

Seriously, if you were on a dating site and someone rejected you because of the type of phone you're using: you dodged a bullet.

I haven't seen an argument this lame since 3rd grade.
 

koala

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What does that mean?

In Europe, millions of iPhone users are still using WhatsApp over Messages.
Yes, because WhatsApp is DOMINANT in Europe. In fact, I disagree with Google asking the EU to meddle with iMessages in Europe- I'm not sure it has relevant leverage anywhere (maybe UK? but that's outside the EU now. iPhones don't have nearly the same amount of marketshare anywhere in the EU than in the US, IIRC).

But if people "need" to use iMessage because the people they want to communicate with use it (and they don't use another app), that gives Apple tons of leverage over what phones can these people buy.

For me, in Spain, WhatsApp means I cannot daily drive any kind of niche phone- or even a feature phone which doesn't have WhatsApp. I need it to do some life-stuff. Plus, if Meta decided to ban me from using WhatsApp, I'd be fucked. Plus, I don't like supporting Meta in any way.
 
I have no real desire to wade into this again, but in general, my experience among the parent set in Northern California is that interop in message systems is an annoyance. But we've all figured it out already. We didn't have a choice. Whatsapp isn't dominant, but it absolutely is well known amongst parents and kids, because it is the lowest common denominator amongst youth after school activities communications. Followed by targeted apps like Band.


Perhaps amongst kids or Singles/20 somethings this is an issue, but for those of us that just need to communicate and share pics/video of the kids, it's solved. Ain't nobody got time for this.
 
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BigLan

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Are plain old text messages now a relic like emails? I hadn't noticed any businesses using Whatsapp or being imessages only.

I'm addition to band, Remind also works well for keeping parents or a group in the loop.

Personally, I wish everyone would just use signal but I know that's very unlikely to happen. I keep expecting telegram to take off in the US though.
 

Horatio

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Personally, I wish everyone would just use signal but I know that's very unlikely to happen.
Signal the app, or Signal the protocol?
I hadn't noticed any businesses using Whatsapp
Not in the US, but I understand that basically everywhere else in the world, Whatsapp is the lingua franca for communication with businesses, like if you don't have WA, you can't talk to businesses (which is just wild, as someone that has literally never used WA).
 

koala

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Are plain old text messages now a relic like emails? I hadn't noticed any businesses using Whatsapp or being imessages only.
Well, they are here. I learned recently that there are cellphone operators that do not charge each SMS (IIRC, it's typically about 0.10-0.20€/message)... but I think most people are not aware this option exists. Because WhatsApp has completely replaced SMS (and it made sense, because when WhatsApp appeared IIRC no company offered flat-rate SMS!).

In Spain, I think it's more like most businesses you can contact via WhatsApp, although strictly speaking it's rarely the only option. But the option is likely much worse phone or email support (e.g. lots of on hold waiting, slower turnaround for emails). I suspect there might be WhatsApp-only businesses that don't do neither phone or email, but that's rare. But in practice, WhatsApp is frequently the best option and not using WhatsApp is going to lead to worse support.

I defend the EU forcing interop because... it's the pragmatic way. People are free to continue using WhatsApp if they don't want to bother installing something else. But I can communicate with my choice of client and without having to deal directly with anything Meta-related. But of course, this interop needs to be decent.
 

wco81

Ars Legatus Legionis
28,661
Signal the app, or Signal the protocol?

Not in the US, but I understand that basically everywhere else in the world, Whatsapp is the lingua franca for communication with businesses, like if you don't have WA, you can't talk to businesses (which is just wild, as someone that has literally never used WA).
Only businesses that I've contacted are like hotels and B&Bs and I suspect most of the time they're giving out their personal mobile numbers.

So I use that to chat in real time or send sensitive data like credit card numbers.

I haven't seen too many "official" business WA accounts, because WA is so mobile-oriented.

Back in the day a few hotels would create Skype accounts, which made a little more sense because they could access those accounts on office PCs as opposed to someone's personal mobile phones.

Even in the US though, WA impact can be pretty substantial. For instance, a lot of political campaign messaging or disinformation goes through specific WA groups, so for instance, Hispanic voters in FL are targeted or it's Columbian and Cuban WA groups there.

It could be that Hispanic-Americans rely more on WA because their friends and relatives in Latin America may be more into WA, since iPhone penetration in those countries are probably much lower than US or Canada.
 

sword_9mm

Ars Legatus Legionis
22,802
Subscriptor
I don't give a shit.
The type of people that bully based on that also bully based on the type of car people drive in highschool.

Maybe the solution to that problem is elsewhere.

Yeah but abortion is a sticky situation even before birth; aborting teenagers has been illegal for a long time.

;)

On a more serious note; why can't folks just pick their bubble color? I had no idea what the green or blue meant (encrypted or whatever); I just figured it was an Apple brand thing.

My wife runs a Pixel and I'm on an iphone. I don't understand the issue but I don't social media so I'm probably in the dark. All our messages seem to work fine afaict. I can't see when she types but I find that type of thing gross as hell.
 
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