Avocent DSR1031 (KVM over CatX) hates HP Elite 8300

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stevenkan

stevenkan

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  • #1
    I have an ancient Avocent/Vertiv DSR1031 KVM switch, which works over CatX cabling via a variety of dongles, connected to 6 different PCs of various ilk. They all work fine, expect for one troublesome PC, an HP Elite 8300 USFF PC running Windows 10/64 (though the OS is probably not in play; see below):

    DSR1031vsHP8300.png



    I'm using the KVM locally, e.g. with a VGA monitor and USB keyboard/mouse connected directly to the KVM, not over IP via a browser or other application.

    When I switch the KVM to the port that's connected to the HP 8300, the display displays properly for about 1/2 a second, and then goes blank, and then comes back a few seconds later, and the goes blank again, etc. When this happens, the "Active" LED on the DSRIQ-USB dongle goes off, and then on again, etc.

    When the display blanks, the keyboard doesn't work (e.g. keystrokes don't register). When it gets into this state it's difficult even to get control of the KVM again (normally via the PrintScreen key on the keyboard), and I have to unplug the Cat5e cable from that KVM port, or even power-cycle the DSR to regain control.

    Things I've tried to no good effect:
    1. Swapping to a known-good port on the KVM switch.
      1. Every port works with the other 5 PCs.
      2. None of the ports works with the HP 8300.
    2. Swapping to a known-good DSRIQ-USB dongle.
      1. I have 4 extra dongles, all of which work with any other PC, and none of which work with the HP 8300.
    3. Swapping to a known-good Cat5e cable.
    4. Plugging the dongle into different USB ports on the HP 8300
      1. The dongle is powered from the USB port it's plugged into.
      2. The HP 8300 has both USB 2 and USB 3 ports on the rear, and I've tried both types.
    5. Swapping to a known-good VGA monitor.
      1. Either VGA monitor works just fine if directly connected to the HP 8300, or if connected to the KVM switch and any of the other 5 PCs connected to it.
    6. Swapping to a known-good VGA cable between the KVM switch and the monitor.
    7. Changing the output resolution on the HP 8300 to 1024 x 768 or 1920 x 1080
      1. All of the other PCs connected to the KVM switch are outputting at one of these two resolutions
    8. Booting into the BIOS on the HP 8300.
      1. Even when booted into the BIOS screen, I get the same behavior, which takes the OS out of the equation.
      2. I've updated the BIOS to the latest available from HP, from 2019.
      3. I reset the BIOS to defaults.
    9. Switching to the DisplayPort outputs on the HP 8300, via DisplayPort-to-VGA adapter
      1. If I bypass the KVM and connect the monitor directly to the HP 8300 via the DisplayPort-to-VGA adapter, the BIOS screen displays properly.
      2. If I then re-route the VGA through the KVM switch, the problem re-occurs.
      3. This USFF PC has no expansion slots, so adding some sort of VGA card does not appear to be an option.
    10. Googled +HP +8300 "DSR1031" which will create an infinite loop as soon as this page is indexed.
    I'm stumped. I can't think of any other thing to swap, and I've never encountered this sort of weirdness before. The KVM switch presents itself to the PC as just another VGA monitor. I can't imagine why this particular PC would hate it this much.

    Any other suggestions?
     
    Paladin

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  • #3
    Replace it with an Optiplex? :D
    Sucks, but yeah.

    Otherwise, try fiddling with the monitor driver on the HP machine or reducing color depth and refresh rate settings? The fact that the BIOS display also has issues might make that a waste of effort though. It really seems like you have tried just about everything. Heck, you might try a cheap USB to VGA adapter? That might be worth a shot. And make sure the PC isn't running any weird display driver manager software that might be freaking out over the display device changing.
     
    cogwheel

    cogwheel

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  • #4
    If you have a MPUIQ-VMCHS lying around, maybe there's a quirk of the HP that's triggering a bug in the DSIRQ-USB that's fixed in its replacement. Probably not worth buying one to try out though.
    Paladin said:
    Replace it with an Optiplex? :D
    Click to expand...
    That might be the cheapest solution, if stevenkan's time is worth anything. Have you seen any issues with similar refurb Lenovos, since those are also widely available cheap?
    Paladin said:
    Heck, you might try a cheap USB to VGA adapter?
    Click to expand...
    Wouldn't this make the BIOS inaccessible over the KVM even if it works otherwise?
     
    Paladin

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  • #5
    Not sure, I have never had to use a USB to VGA adapter, I've had great luck with HDMI to VGA so far. Never had to use a KVM with the USB powered dongles with anything that didn't have native VGA out either though. I only use those KVM devices with server type hardware in general and they still all seem to have VGA or a special VGA dongle (Cisco UCS blades and stuff). But hopefully if things work well enough then getting into the BIOS should not be a frequent enough issue to worry about.

    But yeah, I would probably just get a different cheap machine that works well. You can always return it if it doesn't fix the issue. If it needs to be super reliable, you can always go looking for a machine with IPMI features built in (idrac or iLO or similar).
     
    cogwheel

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  • #6
    Paladin said:
    Not sure, I have never had to use a USB to VGA adapter, I've had great luck with HDMI to VGA so far. Never had to use a KVM with the USB powered dongles with anything that didn't have native VGA out either though. I only use those KVM devices with server type hardware in general and they still all seem to have VGA or a special VGA dongle (Cisco UCS blades and stuff). But hopefully if things work well enough then getting into the BIOS should not be a frequent enough issue to worry about.
    Click to expand...
    USB to VGA (or USB to any video), assuming we aren't talking USB-C, isn't a format converter like HDMI to VGA, it's a shitty USB-connected videocard. I don't have one (since they're shitty) to test, but I'm doubtful any BIOS is capable of talking to a USB-connected videocard. UEFI might be able to do it (since there's an actual driver model for UEFI), but I don't know if it actually works, which is why I was asking.
     
    stevenkan

    stevenkan

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  • #8
    cogwheel said:
    If you have a MPUIQ-VMCHS lying around, maybe there's a quirk of the HP that's triggering a bug in the DSIRQ-USB that's fixed in its replacement. Probably not worth buying one to try out though.
    Click to expand...
    I'm seeing them for as little as $20, so it might be worth buying. But I'm not sure about compatibility. This compatibility matrix shows that it would be compatible with my DSR1031, but with that asterisk denoting that "Users must download latest firmware to support the IQ." My DSR1031 is stuck at version 3.7.2.8, and I'm not sure whether that note refers to the firmware on the box or the firmware on the dongle.
     
    stevenkan

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  • #9
    cogwheel said:
    Wouldn't this make the BIOS inaccessible over the KVM even if it works otherwise?
    Click to expand...
    Yeah, BIOS access is the sole reason for having the DSR, as I normally manage everything over RDP anyway. I don't have to do this very often, but when you need it, you need it.

    I suppose I could buy another Optiplex for $211. This machine does extremely light duty, serving up BugZero, so it doesn't need a lot of machine. How good is Win10/64 at being backed up and then restored to different hardware? I have Apache Tomcat and MySQL running on that machine, and it took my guy awhile to get it all configured and running properly, so I wouldn't want him to have to do it over again.

    Then again I just submitted a $20 bid for an older MPUIQ-VMC that allegedly doesn't require a firmware upgrade. Of course this could be just a rebranded DSRIQ-USB that behaves identically, so 🤷‍♂️
     
    cogwheel

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  • #10
    stevenkan said:
    I'm seeing them for as little as $20, so it might be worth buying. But I'm not sure about compatibility. This compatibility matrix shows that it would be compatible with my DSR1031, but with that asterisk denoting that "Users must download latest firmware to support the IQ." My DSR1031 is stuck at version 3.7.2.8, and I'm not sure whether that note refers to the firmware on the box or the firmware on the dongle.
    Click to expand...
    The single asterisk in the compatibility matrix apparently does double duty as what you quoted but also "DSR Range - minimum v3.7.2.1". What both of those mean in combination is definitely a mystery.

    stevenkan said:
    I suppose I could buy another Optiplex for $211.
    Click to expand...
    Optiplexi (or however you'd like to pluralize it) can be significantly cheaper, e.g. this one or this one. The selection also improves if you're willing to have it shipped from the vendor instead of fulfilled by Amazon.
     
    stevenkan

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  • #11
    stevenkan said:
    This compatibility matrix shows that it would be compatible with my DSR1031, but with that asterisk denoting that "Users must download latest firmware to support the IQ." My DSR1031 is stuck at version 3.7.2.8, and I'm not sure whether that note refers to the firmware on the box or the firmware on the dongle.
    Click to expand...
    And now I just read the second note: "DSR Range - 104 minimum v3.7.2.1", so I should be good to go with a MPUIQ-VMCHS.
    cogwheel said:
    The single asterisk in the compatibility matrix apparently does double duty as what you quoted but also "DSR Range - minimum v3.7.2.1". What both of those mean in combination is definitely a mystery.


    Optiplexi (or however you'd like to pluralize it) can be significantly cheaper, e.g. this one or this one. The selection also improves if you're willing to have it shipped from the vendor instead of fulfilled by Amazon.
    Click to expand...
    Yeah, I "discovered" these refurbed computers a few years ago, and I've been buying them ever since. The Win10Pro license is worth $130 all by itself! I use them for light duty employee workstations and non-critical services.
     
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    Xelas

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  • #12
    Sounds like you have a good use case to run the various servers in VMs. You have a single box to deal with, and you can simply access the guest VMs virtually with no need for KVMs, cabling, dongles, etc. Might be cheaper in the long run, too, just in saved power on your electrical bill.
    There are many good free or very inexpensive options for VM software. I use VMWare, but if ProxMox had been around 8-9 years ago, I'd probably had gone down that path. If all your guests are Windows-based, Hyper-V is OK as well.
    My physical server is 8 years old and is nearing time for an upgrade, but it cost me about $1k when I bought it (motherboard, cpu, ram, case). I've since replaced the case and bumped the RAM from 16Gbn to 32GB, but that's it. It has IPMI, so the only 3 cables I've ever plugged into it are 2 network cables and power. That's about $120/year, which I consider a really good deal. It's been running pretty much 24/7 since I bought it. It has run between 4 and 8 VMs at times, and spinning up a new VM takes about 15 minutes if I have the drive space - no need to mess with cables, hardware, etc. IMPI means I can remote into it via VPN and even get into the BIOS if I want to, and all the VMs are easily accessible over a browser window. The VMs all share 2 x 1-GB SATA SSDs (Samsung 870 Pros I got for sale).

    I'll never go back to physical servers, ever again. It's not even cost effective to do so in the long run. If you have 5 computers that are all ~$220 each, you've already spent about as much as you would have on a single server.
     
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  • #13
    Regarding your specific issue, VGA is an analog signal, so splitters usually (not always) work. What if you leave a monitor plugged in to keep the PC happy, but put in on a splitter and route the other branch into that KVM? You'll presumably have to leave that monitor on all the time, although you can probably set the brightness to zero to minimize energy use.
     
    stevenkan

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  • #14
    Xelas said:
    Regarding your specific issue, VGA is an analog signal, so splitters usually (not always) work. What if you leave a monitor plugged in to keep the PC happy, but put in on a splitter and route the other branch into that KVM? You'll presumably have to leave that monitor on all the time, although you can probably set the brightness to zero to minimize energy use.
    Click to expand...
    That's an interesting idea. I have a MPUIQ-VMCHS arriving in a few days, so we'll see if that fixes the problem, and if not, I will look into other solutions in the zip code that you're suggesting. One thing that just popped into my head is a VGA dummy plug. Maybe if I plug that into the VGA port and the KVM into the DisplayPort port, the dummy plug will keep it happy. Or I could try the splitter route, as you've suggested (though I'm still trying to wrap my head around how that would actually work).
     
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  • #15
    stevenkan said:
    Or I could try the splitter route, as you've suggested (though I'm still trying to wrap my head around how that would actually work).
    Click to expand...

    View: https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Splitter-Screen-Duplication/dp/B005H3I38G?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&psc=1

    Plug this in, and the monitor into one branch, and the KVM into the other. The persistent presence of a monitor may be enough to fix the whonkiness. It's a cheap test at <$10.
    I have no idea whatsoever if this will or will not fix the issue.

    If you combine VGA and Displayport, you might just end up confusing the device further because it may not be able to figure out which one is the main one it should be using, but it's still worth a shot because, "why not"?.
     
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    cogwheel

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  • #16
    Thinking about this more, both VGA and DP are mostly unidirectional connections, with one common exception, the EDID channel (e.g. DDC2B on VGA, Aux on DP). If the problem is being caused by the Avocent adapter returning EDID data that somehow invokes a bug in the HP's system firmware, then the splitter would only be a partial component of the solution. You'd need to disconnect VGA pin 12 between the Avocent adapter and the HP.

    The other possibility over the video ports is the Avocent adapters create some electronic noise that causes the video subsystem in the HP to crash.

    Another idea: have you tried hooking up the Avocent adapter to a separate USB power supply instead of the HP's ports? It's theoretically possible that the problem is being caused over the USB bus instead of the video connection.
     
    stevenkan

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  • #17
    cogwheel said:
    Another idea: have you tried hooking up the Avocent adapter to a separate USB power supply instead of the HP's ports? It's theoretically possible that the problem is being caused over the USB bus instead of the video connection.
    Click to expand...
    Ding ding ding!!!

    I tried all 10 of the USB ports on the HP, 6 rear and 4 front, and the bad behavior persists on all 10.

    But I tried plugging the USB cable into a USB port on the adjacent machine, and the display is stable.

    Of course it's not remotely useful that way :biggreen:, but at least now I know where the problem is. I'll have to see if I have a powered USB hub laying around somewhere.
     
    Paladin

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  • #20
    Great follow up! Glad you got it working. KVM over IP devices are a frustrating balance of 'spend all the money to just make things work... mostly' and 'spend as little as possible and almost nothing will work well... mostly'. Finding the sweet spot where it is not to expensive and still works well enough is a real accomplishment. Hopefully it stays working for a long time before browsers stop letting it do its job.
     
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