Custom Ryzen desktop build advice needed

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Papageno

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  • #1
    Hi all, checking out the iBuyPower page and came up with this on the daily deal AMD custom configuration page for $2293. The things I might change here are going the 7800X3D CPU, and maybe bumping the PSU to an 850W Corsair just to have some overhead for a couple of HDDs and 2.5 in SSDs. Also possibly the alternative MSI Pro X670-P motherboard with the full set of audio out ports in the back, and the pic shows two USB-C rear ports though the specs only claim one, curiously.

    The case supposedly only comes with two 120mm fans (one front one rear), I think at least one more in front would be prudent. All that adds cost but I think I can keep it to under $2500. They don't do CPU air-cooling but eventually I would probably swap the default liquid cooling out for the CPU. This would be my first AMD system since whatever that hot Athlon one was back in the mid-aughts.

    Opinions?

    AMD Gaming PC Configurator 4 Daily Deal | iBUYPOWER®

    | Category| Item |
    | ------ | ------ |
    | Limited Time Offer | [FREE] - iBUYPOWER MEK 3 RGB Mechanical Gaming Keyboard ($39 Value) |
    | Case | NZXT H7 Flow Mesh Front Panel Gaming Case - Black |
    | Case Fans | Default Case Fan |
    | Processor | AMD Ryzen™ 9 7900X Processor (12X 4.7GHz/64MB L3 Cache) |
    | Processor Cooling | iBUYPOWER 240mm Addressable RGB Liquid Cooler - Black |
    | Memory | 16 GB [8 GB X2] DDR5-5200MHz Memory Module | [Free Upgrade to 32GB DDR5-5600 TEAMGROUP T-Force Delta RGB]
    | Video Card | NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Ti SUPER - 16GB GDDR6X (DLSS 3.5 – AI-Powered Performance) |
    | Motherboard | ASUS PRIME X670-P WIFI - Wifi 6E, ARGB Header (3), USB 3.2 Ports (1 Type-C, 8 Type-A), M.2 Slot (3) |
    | Power Supply | 700 Watt - High Power - 80 PLUS Gold Certified |
    | Primary Storage | 2TB WD Black SN850X M.2 PCIe Gen 4 NVMe SSD -- Gen 4 Read: 7300 MB/s, Write: 6600 MB/s, Gen 3 Read: 3500 MB/s, Write: 3500 MB/s |
    | Sound Card | 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard |
    | Services | Standard Default Cables, Generic Thermal Paste - Pre-applied, iBUYPOWER Standard Packaging |
    | Operating System | Windows 11 Home |
    | Keyboard | iBUYPOWER Chimera KM7 RGB Keyboard and Mouse Combo |
    | Warranty | Three Year Standard (3 YR Labor + 1 YR Parts) |
    | Rush Service | No Rush - Standard Service |
     
    Nevarre

    Nevarre

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  • #3
    DDR5 6000 CR30 is ideal for Zen4, but an X3D chip will mask slower RAM better than a non-3DVCache chip. Honestly, if you're almost entirely gaming, get the 7800X3D, period.

    If there's only one 120mm fan blowing in, you'll potentially have negative air pressure with two radiator fans and a rear fan. That's not necessarily a deal killer but it's going to affect where the dust ends up. Additional fans are relatively affordable.

    No strong opinions on the motherboards. A 700w PSU is less than I'd ideally prefer but it's within spec for the system as configured. I don't see a name brand/model on the 700w. I'm always concerned about these kind of brands cheaping out.
     
    Nevarre

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  • #4
    DaveB said:
    Why not keep the AIO? If mounted at the top, that gives you two more exhaust fans.

    Crazy up charging for faster DDR5.
    Click to expand...

    AIOs have more parts to fail and may not have as long of a lifespan, but air cooling appropriate for the system isn't cheap either. There's no reason to not run the AIO until the pump dies and then figure out a plan.

    These companies strongly favor AIOs because they ship better for a pre-installed system. The weight is bolted on to the frame of the case and only the pump is fixed to the CPU where a big and heavy air cooler is a risk in shipping-- it could easily bend or twist and maybe even take out other components if it flies loose.

    The GPU will likewise either be shipped not-pre-installed or if it's pre-installed, the case will be filled with foam to try and limit the GPU movement/damage in transit. Trusting customers to install a GPU is one thing, trusting them to install a HS/F or AIO is another... getting thermal paste correct is an art and screwing up a CPU is an expensive oops for a very inexperienced builder.
     
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    Papageno

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  • #5
    Thanks for the replies, @DaveB and @Nevarre . Yes, I planned to use the AIO till it shows signs of failure, then switch to a good air cooler. Leaning toward the 7800X3D CPU, which by all accounts is good for games, and I do game and don't do a lot of "productivity." :cool: And I feel the same way about PSUs. you don't want to cheap out--my Seasonic Gold installed in 2015 is still working fine. Technically the brand is "High Power" which I've never heard of before. And yeah, I'll probably go ahead and get the extra fan. I should ask but I assume that if you buy one of those optional 3 fan kits they keep the ones that came with the case. Maybe not though (here's hoping).

    The GPU with iBuyPower always ships separately and I know how to install a video card (I've built at least four systems from the parts, including installing HSFs, although one time I had forgotten to plug the 20 pin CPU power connector and boy did I fell silly when I figured it out), just don't have the space and time to do it these days taking care of my aging mom and all that in my house (since Labor Day of 2020, because of course all the things had to happen that year, including wildfire smoke in Portland just a month later that was so bad that we had to stay inside for a week just not to choke).
     
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    hobold

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  • #7
    The 7800X3D doesn't outright dominate gaming. But it wins most duels against processors without the bootload of cache, and it wins a few by a mile. It is easy enough to cool and doesn't care much about tuning/overclocking of main memory. IMHO it is the "least hassle" option of the currently fastest gaming CPUs.

    The higher tier X3D Ryzen models don't really improve gaming performance, only productivity. The Intel options at the high end draw considerably more power and are harder to cool.

    All in all, though, gaming performance at the top is excellent no matter what you choose. Bit pricey, though.
     
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    continuum

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  • #9
    Papageno said:
    BTW, looks like the 4070 Ti S cards are a bit of a damp squib at the moment, per reviews. Yes you get more VRAM but 1440p gaming is only showing a 3% FPS increase. Hmm.

    Here's an NZXT box configured with better RAM, and an overclocked ASUS 4070 card:

    https://nzxt.com/build/pc/f7562bc5-fcf9-4bd8-ab67-3d57328a1174?shared=true
    Click to expand...
    www.techpowerup.com

    ASUS GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Super TUF Review

    While the $800 ASUS RTX 4070 Ti Super TUF doesn't include a factory overclock, it features a highly capable all-metal cooler—ranking as the most effective among all the cards tested today. Additionally, the dual BIOS provides a quiet mode, transforming the card into a whisper-quiet gaming machine.
    www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com

    6, 7, 10% faster................. plenty of discussion over in the A/V forum including possibility of some firmware issues. But yeah, to no one's surprise, does not look like a huge bump in performance.
     
    Nevarre

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  • #11
    At some point with the current gen GPUs, you just have to hold your nose and buy. Most of them are mostly not bad with the caveat that the bus widths on nVidia cards tie each tier of card to its intended resolution more tightly than in previous generations. It's all about the price, but if you're targeting anything in the 1440p/high refresh ballpark, all of the 4070 lineup are acceptable if you find the price acceptable. The pendulum swings back and forth on whether or not the 4070 Super or the 4070ti Super is the worse deal, but neither are worse than their predecessors and the 4070 and 4070ti non-super cards are not bad cards if you don't look at the price tag.

    Sorry, there's just no slam dunk this time around.

    $0.02
     
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    Papageno

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  • #12
    Nevarre said:
    At some point with the current gen GPUs, you just have to hold your nose and buy. Most of them are mostly not bad with the caveat that the bus widths on nVidia cards tie each tier of card to its intended resolution more tightly than in previous generations. It's all about the price, but if you're targeting anything in the 1440p/high refresh ballpark, all of the 4070 lineup are acceptable if you find the price acceptable. The pendulum swings back and forth on whether or not the 4070 Super or the 4070ti Super is the worse deal, but neither are worse than their predecessors and the 4070 and 4070ti non-super cards are not bad cards if you don't look at the price tag.

    Sorry, there's just no slam dunk this time around.

    $0.02
    Click to expand...

    Nothing equivalent to the 8800 GT of yore? Man those were the days, when GPUs cost maybe a couple hundred bucks.
     
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  • #13
    So I pulled the trigger--should be shipping in 15 days or so, but I'm in no big hurry--went with the 4070 Ti Super from Gigabyte. Just realized that I left the default "white" version of the memory. Grrr, why is white the default so much of the time? The default case was white too. Who buys that [stuff]? Approximately $2429 with ground shipping:

    nzxt.com

    Customize Your Gaming PC | NZXT BLD

    Configure a Custom Gaming PC that is assembled and tested by NZXT experts. See in real time what FPS performance you'll get on some of the top games.
    nzxt.com nzxt.com

    NZXT H7 Flow Build

    Western Digital Black SN850X 2TB

    NZXT C850 850W Gold (2022) (Black)

    Gigabyte GeForce RTX™ 4070 Ti SUPER Windforce OC 16G

    Team T-Force Delta White DDR5 6000MHz CL38 6000 MHz (Maximum Speed) 32GB (2X16GB) More Info

    AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 8-Cores 4.2GHz

    MSI Pro X670-P WIFI DDR5

    NZXT H7 Flow (Black)

    Windows 11_Home

    Standard Service (US)

    Kraken 280 (Black)
     
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    Nevarre

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  • #15
    Papageno said:
    Nothing equivalent to the 8800 GT of yore? Man those were the days, when GPUs cost maybe a couple hundred bucks.
    Click to expand...
    Yeah there's no 1080ti there's no 980 GTX there's no 8880 GT there's no ATI 9700 Pro, there's no Matrox Millenia-- nothing is an outstanding bargain right now. Prices relative to performance are a little better and at least this gen of nVidia cards is not as power-hungry as Ampere, but there's no magical sweet spot of price/performance and no fairly priced GPUs overall relative to previous price points, even adjusted for inflation.
     
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  • #16
    continuum said:
    Looks good, let us know how it goes!
    Click to expand...

    I shall indeed. Can't wait to load up some newer game on there with all the bells and whistles on. Maybe Cyberpunk 2077.

    @Nevarre The 1080 Ti was an outstanding bargain? Wasn't that when the cryptominers were gobbling up all the cards and you couldn't get anything for love nor money? I lucked out and got a used 1080 at a very reasonable price (300 IIRC) in October 2017 from a fellow forum member because he decided to go for the 1080 Ti . Lasted me a good four years, although for the last year and a half it had a thing where sometimes it wouldn't make the "handshake" when coming back from sleep and I'd have to quickly press the reset button on the computer of all things (which mysteriously would not reboot the PC in that situation, go figure).
     
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    Nevarre

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  • #17
    Papageno said:
    I shall indeed. Can't wait to load up some newer game on there with all the bells and whistles on. Maybe Cyberpunk 2077.

    @Nevarre The 1080 Ti was an outstanding bargain? Wasn't that when the cryptominers were gobbling up all the cards and you couldn't get anything for love nor money? I lucked out and got a used 1080 at a very reasonable price (300 IIRC) in October 2017 from a fellow forum member because he decided to go for the 1080 Ti . Lasted me a good four years, although for the last year and a half it had a thing where sometimes it wouldn't make the "handshake" when coming back from sleep and I'd have to quickly press the reset button on the computer of all things (which mysteriously would not reboot the PC in that situation, go figure).
    Click to expand...

    It depends on the timing. The Pascal generation was out for a while before the first Crypto mining boom and there was a window before when the 1080ti was available (and some window after.) If you got a 1080ti in March 2017 at launch, it was so far ahead of everything else (including the 1080) that it's still 100% viable today, excluding DLSS and RT, but it can do FSR. You don't normally get 7 years of useful life out of a GPU.

    If you bought Pascal too late, like me, you got screwed on price. ~$500+ for a 1070ti is a bad price for what was a good card but nothing compared to the screw job on Ampere.

    Back then in 2017 a $699 card seemed unreasonable, but if you could get a 4080 Super or 4090 for $699 today... $100/year and the first half of its life it was top dog? Bargain.
     
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  • #18
    I'm kind of disappointed that I'm not seeing the "Far Cry: Avatar Version" game as a promo for getting a machine with an AMD processor in it. It was a thing at iBuyPower but at NZXT there was no mention. I suppose the latter isn't a "participating retailer." Still glad I went with NZXT. They were offering better "guts" (faster RAM, larger-fan AIO etc.) for the price than iBuyPower was.

    Now I've just got to hope that I don't lose the "bad RAM stick" lottery. I lived with a kit like that that was very sneakily defective in the machine before my current one for nearly four years. which would result in BSODs sometimes a couple of weeks apart but one time with 10 months between them, but memtest86+ never found any issues. Finally someone suggested Prime95 and that found the problem right away.
     
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    Papageno

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  • #20
    steelghost said:
    At least you know how to test for it this time around!
    Click to expand...
    Indeed!

    In other news, just got an email today that they're out of the motherboard I originally picked but they're offering to swap it out for the ASUS Prime X670E Pro WiFi instead for no extra charge, which looks fancier and still has the full set of audio jacks I was looking for, so I should take it, right? I've never had any issues with ASUS motherboards-- so far I've had 3 of them and this would be a fourth:

    www.asus.com

    PRIME X670E-PRO WIFI｜Motherboards｜ASUS USA

    ASUS Prime motherboards are expertly engineered to unleash the full potential of AMD and Intel processors. Boasting a robust power design, comprehensive cooling solutions and intelligent tuning options, these ASUS motherboards provide daily users and DIY PC builders a range of performance tuning...
    www.asus.com www.asus.com
     
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  • #21
    Papageno said:
    Indeed!

    In other news, just got an email today that they're out of the motherboard I originally picked but they're offering to swap it out for the ASUS Prime X670E Pro WiFi instead for no extra charge, which looks fancier and still has the full set of audio jacks I was looking for, so I should take it, right? I've never had any issues with ASUS motherboards-- so far I've had 3 of them and this would be a fourth:

    www.asus.com

    PRIME X670E-PRO WIFI｜Motherboards｜ASUS USA

    ASUS Prime motherboards are expertly engineered to unleash the full potential of AMD and Intel processors. Boasting a robust power design, comprehensive cooling solutions and intelligent tuning options, these ASUS motherboards provide daily users and DIY PC builders a range of performance tuning...
    www.asus.com www.asus.com
    Click to expand...
    I'd say yes and don't look back
     
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  • #23
    pasorrijer said:
    I'd say yes and don't look back
    Click to expand...
    Thanks.

    Actually I did have a small issue with my current ASUS Z170-A and that was that the I/O cover/heatsink caused the slightest bit of interference with the heat-sink shroud of one of the video cards I installed in the system (it's nearly 7 years old and on its third GPU-- the 970 from the previous system, a 1080 in October 2017 and a 3060 Ti about four years after that in 2021). By the looks of it those ASUS I/O heatsinks haven't gotten any smaller.

    BTW, I guess I ordered just in time last week. The system I ordered as configured today is over 100 bucks more expensive (only $40 of which can be explained by the motherboard substitution).
     
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  • #25
    Now I just have to figure out how to transfer the most important data from my current PC. Copy my Windows user profile of course, for starters. I've run into the problem sometimes where Windows locks me out of my own stuff (at least initially) from a previous machine, even though I'm obviously an Administrator on my current one. I hope Windows 11 is a little more intuitive on how to get past stuff like that, because it's kind of a pain.

    Let's see, what would be a good game to start off with? Probably the most recent version of Cyberpunk 2077 with most of the bells and whistles on, eh? I haven't bought a lot of really recent titles, apart from Miles Morales (already played) and AC Mirage (almost done with it). Maybe buy Aliens Dark Descent on sale and try that?
     
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  • #26
    Well, this H7 Flow case from NZXT is going to be a bit of a bear to work with compared to my FD Define R5.


    To move my biggest, newest HDD from my old machine to the one of the two 3.5 in HDD bays, I have to free the HDD cage from the case, but that implies unscrewing and pulling the PSU out the right side of the case behind/under the motherboard (fairly certain) because the cables from the PSU are interfering with the screw I need to loosen to get the HDD cage out. Ugh. These designers never heard of rails you attach to the sides of the drives so you can just slide them in? Oh, and the case apparently only comes with the EXACT number of screws to attach the motherboard to the tray (which double as HDD installation screws), apparently, because I sure didn’t get any extra ones. There are supposed to be 17 of them with the case per its manual, so I think they spaced sending me some.

    I did get eight thingies that I can’t identify that look like hexagonal motherboard standoffs, except that they’ve got a threaded stud on both ends instead of only on the one end with a threaded hole in the other. The ASUS motherboard manual just refers to “two bags of screws” – yeah, super helpful.

    In any case, I need to do the power supply temporary removal just to get at the SATA power ports of the PSU. Never mind having to figure out how to route the data cables of that and any 2.5 in SSD drives to the appropriate SATA ports of the motherboard. At least the 2.5 in drives seem fairly straightforward to install on the back of the motherboard tray, in the physical, if not the connection logistics sense.

    The motherboard has four m.2 slots (one of which will disable SATA 1 and 2 [of 4] if running in Gen 4 mode). So is it better to go with m.2 NVMe SSDs or SATA ones? Is 2GB for m.2 still the sweet spot price per GB-wise? Recommendations?
     
    continuum

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  • #27
    Papageno said:
    eight thingies that I can’t identify that look like hexagonal motherboard standoffs, except that they’ve got a threaded stud on both ends instead of only on the one end with a threaded hole in the other. The ASUS motherboard manual just refers to “two bags of screws” – yeah, super helpful.
    Click to expand...
    Standoffs come with the case, so check the case manual, not the motherboard manual...

    Definitely stay M.2 if it's in the budget. Check the SSD thread in Other Hardware for recommendations, the last few posts should have some mentions of recommendations. Prices have been going up lately so don't dig too far back.

    Tom's Hardware, Anandtech, others have recs too.

    www.tomshardware.com

    Best SSD and Hard Drive Deals 2024

    Find solid-state and spinning savings with these great deals
    www.tomshardware.com www.tomshardware.com
     
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  • #28
    @continuum The motherboard standoffs are listed in the case documentation but these eight things I can't identify have threaded studs on both ends, which isn't what they look like in the documentation. I can't figure out what they're for, what their purpose is. Also I was not sent the standoff wrench (in case for some reason I eventually wanted to change motherboards or whatever).
     
    continuum

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  • #29
    Papageno said:
    The motherboard standoffs are listed in the case documentation but these eight things I can't identify have threaded studs on both ends, which isn't what they look like in the documentation.
    Click to expand...

    Did you actually get the correct motherboard standoffs (not sure how many, the manual doesn't say...) and the threaded studs with a hex body in the middle? If you got those in addition with the case accessory kit that would indeed be weird...

    Trying to find reviews that include unboxing and accessory kit photos-- not finding anything but maybe take a look?
     
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  • #30
    Thanks for the reply. I will look for videos and follow up with their tech support as to the missing screws. What a weird omission.

    I got a printed multilingual version of that same document you linked to there, As for whether I got motherboard standoffs, I must have because it's a built-for-me PC, and something is holding the motherboard in there. The diagrams on Page 15 show a minimum of 8 motherboard standoffs and their corresponding screws, called out on Page 3 as parts E and B, respectively. Now the number of standoffs mentioned on p. 3 is obviously mistaken (it only shows 1), but the number of "B" screws is supposed to be 17 per p. 3. That's a weird number because it would leave 9 of the same type of screw for 3.5 in drive installation, not an even number. In any case I got none of those beyond those which are holding the motherboard on the tray. I was under the impression that I was going to get all the screws that came with the case, motherboard etc.

    The only thing I can think of is that these eight weird two-ended standoffs are meant to be used with an Intel motherboard maybe, and that on boards like that you use tiny nuts instead of screws on the top end? Seems like that would be an unnecessary PITA vs attaching a screw to a Philips screwdriver with a magnetized head to screw it through a hole into a mobo standoff, though.
     
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  • #32
    Papageno said:
    The only thing I can think of is that these eight weird two-ended standoffs are meant to be used with an Intel motherboard maybe, and that on boards like that you use tiny nuts instead of screws on the top end? Seems like that would be an unnecessary PITA vs attaching a screw to a Philips screwdriver with a magnetized head to screw it through a hole into a mobo standoff, though.
    Click to expand...
    No. Both AMD and Intel motherboards have the same ATX mounting holes for use in any standard ATX, mATX or ITX case you can buy. The standoffs and screws come with the case, not the motherboard. Nobody uses nuts to secure motherboards to case standoffs, the screws and standoffs that come with the case are always used.
     
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  • #34
    malor said:
    edit: actually, this comment was wrong. I was thinking that male-to-male connectors were extenders, but when I actually pictured trying to use them, I realized that didn't work. So my explanation was useless and dumb, and I've deleted it.
    Click to expand...
    Hehe, yeah, I was trying to figure out how that would even work. ;) So I guess I'll just ask NZXT tech support what the heck they're supposed to be for. An added detail: four of them have a smooth middle hexagonal part, and the other four have a break in the hex, right in the middle, which is slightly rougher and recessed (those were in their own little bag, which had a label that read Intel something, hence my weird speculation @DaveB). Also, two of the smooth hex ones were stuck to the magnetic base of the WiFi/Bluetooth antenna that came with the motherboard, so at first I thought they had something to do with that, but there aren't any corresponding holes on said base.
     
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  • #35
    Papageno said:
    Hehe, yeah, I was trying to figure out how that would even work. ;) So I guess I'll just ask NZXT tech support what the heck they're supposed to be for. An added detail: four of them have a smooth middle hexagonal part, and the other four have a break in the hex, right in the middle, which is slightly rougher and recessed (those were in their own little bag, which had a label that read Intel something, hence my weird speculation @DaveB). Also, two of the smooth hex ones were stuck to the magnetic base of the WiFi/Bluetooth antenna that came with the motherboard, so at first I thought they had something to do with that, but there aren't any corresponding holes on said base.
    Click to expand...
    Ah, I'm betting their part of the cooler's mounting system, you'll have a different set of spacers and such for each socket type so Intel "something" was probably lga1700, for instance I've got 4 of these leftover from my Fuma 3
     

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  • #36
    -Locke- said:
    Ah, I'm betting their part of the cooler's mounting system, you'll have a different set of spacers and such for each socket type so Intel "something" was probably lga1700, for instance I've got 4 of these leftover from my Fuma 3
    Click to expand...
    I suppose that might be the case, if by cooler you mean the AIO. This is my first system containing such a beast, so I'm unfamiliar with how they're mounted. NZXT did send documentation for their "Kraken" AIO so I'll take a look at it and see if these things are shown there (mine are longer than the pic you posted).

    EDIT: You were right! They're two different sets of standoffs for the AIO depending on what Intel socket you've got.
     
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  • #37
    Another question for anyone regarding fans; currently my new PC has the intake and exhaust 120 mm fans that came with the H7 Flow case, apart from the AIO radiator's two 140 mm fans up top. Since I'm not the greatest housekeeper in the world (to put it mildly) I'm worried about a slight underpressure effect with the current configuration, which would pull in dust, so I'm thinking of putting another two 120 mm fans in front. What should I expect to pay for a couple of decently quiet PWM fans? Any particular models recommended? No blinkenlights/RGB needed, but I want them in black.
     
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  • #38
    I replaced the case fans in mine with 4x https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a12x25-pwm-chromax-black-swap

    They are not the cheapest fans, but Noctua does a good job at quiet, low power, reliable fans.

    I also used their anti vibration mounts instead of screws. The case fans are pretty much silent, with no perceptible vibration.

    Those look like $34 each right now on Amazon:

    View: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09C6DQDNT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


    Phanteks also makes a good fan from what I understand, and they are a little bit cheaper at $31 (or especially in a three pack for 84), but they are not the standard size so you would need to be sure you can fit the deeper fans.
    View: https://www.amazon.com/Phanteks-PH-F120T30_BG_3P-Triple-Pack-high-Performance-Excellent/dp/B09B2LTXCN/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2N489P8CX1YF8&keywords=phanteks&qid=1707770770&s=industrial&sprefix=phanteks%2Cindustrial%2C100&sr=1-1&th=1
     
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    cerberusTI

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  • #40
    Those are 140mm, where he specified 120 (although they do make smaller fans, and if there is room in the case larger fans will tend to be better.)

    The price is certainly better, but when I was looking at reviews and discussions there was a common note that the noise is not ideal, especially in the middle of the fan curve around 1000RPM.
     
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