The Hot Rod/Sweeter Spot Build (NAS edition)

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Conza88

Conza88

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  • #1
    Hi team,

    Back in the day there was a fabulous guide to help with custom builds. I went on to build 2 machines thanks to the excellent help from the community.
    The current machine is going great. The left over parts (basically everything) from the 1st build was used to make a NAS.

    What I currently have: bought 2011.

    Processor: Intel Core i5 2500K 3.3GHz Quad Core CPU
    Motherboard: Asus S1155 P8Z68-V-LE Motherboard
    Memory: DDR3 8GB (2x4G) Corsair Vengeance DDR3 CL9 Kit + DDR3 8GB (2x8G) Corsair Vengeance DDR3 CL9 (Total: 24GB memory)
    OS: Windows 10 Home Premium 64bit TrueNAS Core

    Hard Drive: Seagate IronWolf 12TB NAS Internal Hard Drive HDD
    Hard Drive: Seagate IronWolf 12TB NAS Internal Hard Drive HDD
    SSD Western Digital Red SA500 500GB 2.5 inch NAS SATA SSD (boot pool)
    Storage: Samsung SSD 850 EVO 250GB (not really being used)
    Hard Drive: 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 7200rpm 32M SATA HDD (not really being used)

    Graphics: Radeon HD 6950 1GB Powercolor PCIe Video Card
    Power supply: Corsair TX650 V2

    Case: Antec 900 two ver 3
    Fans: 2 x Antec TriCool 120mm Fan [front section]

    Bluetooth: ASUS USB-BT211 USB Mini Bluetooth Adapter EDR
    Sound card: Asus Xonar DG
    DVD burner: LG CH10LS20 BLK BluRay Combo,10XBD-R,16xDVD, BD-R/RE

    Router:TP-Link Archer D9 1900

    Backup: 12TB WD external usb 2.0, and 8TB WD external usb 2.0
    Click to expand...

    Yes, it's been trucking along since 2011. What I added post in becoming a NAS in green. I am worried though that at some point it'll cark it, and hence preparing for The Hot Rod/Sweeter Spot Build (NAS edition).

    Uses:
    • Plex (movies, TV shows, music, playlists etc.)
      • Issues w/ 265 HEVC - I think system not good enough to transcode?
    • Memories - docs, photos, videos, files, games etc.
    • Virtual machines - Linux (running few programs 24/7)
    • Plugins - torrents
    • Host a Xenforo forum, and other self-hosting e.g. Bitwarden, Mattermost (asana open source for teams), Finance app on 24/7, , etc.

    Comments:
    • Wondering about best in class of sorts, but not overkill - in terms of budget.
    • I have used 66% (7TB) at the moment. 3.5TB free (33%).
    • I imagine value wise - building own, and customisability is way better than buying a Synology or something pre-built?
    • Best processors / mobo? Ones specifically built for NAS? Memory too?
    • Quiet would be good
    • Other considerations? Feel free to refer to any articles I should read.
    Many thanks
     
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    vwracer409

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  • #2
    G'day.
    Did you ever come along at the right time! I'm starting a build that has been over a year in the making. Our list of uses are quite similar. Mine will be a DAS box, and we refer to it (at home) as "The Library". My intent is to build this with as many old school parts as I can find. New stuff is easy, old part are satisfying. Referred to as NOS.
    I'll be following your progress. A bit like a second set of eyes. Thanks
     
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    continuum

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  • #3
    Hot Rod price point was traditionally $1600ish with peripherals and monitor, take out the monitor, video card, and keyboard/mouse you're probably down to about $900-1000 on CPU/MB/memory/PSU/case/storage... does that sound about right to you?

    Did you need/want to include 2 more hard drives in that $900-1000ish? If so that might not work so well.

    How many virtual machines and whatnot? How many resources those need will dictate your memory and CPU needs, also maybe fast SSD storage....?
     
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  • #5
    I would recommend getting something that accelerates hardware encoding/decoding of h.265 for future-proofing. You can add a GPU, but that also adds power consumption, so a CPU with newer version of QuickSync is preferable. (Tigerlake or later has full 12-bit h.265 encoding capability). This will save you money but also use less power.

    Note Plex still doesn't support transcoding TO h.265, and while it could be expected they eventually will, Plex's priorities aren't always on the media-server part...

    As for RAM, it depends on what your setup will be. Are you going to run a ProxMox hypervisor with a few VMs, I'd recommend making sure you can upgrade to 64GB of RAM. And also get at least 8 cores, so you can distribute them among the VMs more easily.

    For harddisks, I'd just get the biggest, cheapest NAS/server rated disks you can - I don't think you can really rely on any brand being so much more reliable that it will matter if you don't have dozens of drives. I've had pretty good experiences with Toshiba's MG08 16TB drives, and the data from BackBlaze seems to indicate they aren't more or less reliable than average. They are also pretty inexpensive for enterprise-class disks. Fewer disks also means less power consumption. :)
     
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    EricFate

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  • #7
    Conza88 said:
    Hi team,

    Back in the day there was a fabulous guide to help with custom builds. I went on to build 2 machines thanks to the excellent help from the community.
    The current machine is going great. The left over parts (basically everything) from the 1st build was used to make a NAS.



    Yes, it's been trucking along since 2011. What I added post in becoming a NAS in green. I am worried though that at some point it'll cark it, and hence preparing for The Hot Rod/Sweeter Spot Build (NAS edition).
    Click to expand...

    My 2016 build was largely lifted from one of the Hot Rod build guides. And it is still trucking along till this day. I've since added a few used parts to up the memory speed, CPU, drive speed, and video card to 2019 levels (at which point the Gen 7 motherboard is topped out and can no longer be upgraded) but it is still my daily driver.
     
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    Conza88

    Conza88

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  • #8
    continuum said:
    Hot Rod price point was traditionally $1600ish with peripherals and monitor, take out the monitor, video card, and keyboard/mouse you're probably down to about $900-1000 on CPU/MB/memory/PSU/case/storage... does that sound about right to you?

    Did you need/want to include 2 more hard drives in that $900-1000ish? If so that might not work so well.

    How many virtual machines and whatnot? How many resources those need will dictate your memory and CPU needs, also maybe fast SSD storage....?
    Click to expand...

    Take out all the peripherals yeah. Inflation after 10+ years also to consider. But yeah $1500 or so.

    I would be inclined to add more drives. I did a massive download of movies etc. at the start, but library is pretty rock solid now. Little to add besides perhaps ongoing movies, and photos.

    I prefer to go large at the start though, save hassle long term... so likely 2 more.

    Virtual machines - at least one running Linux, MS... but then also interested in possibility of hosting website, or forum e.g. https://xenforo.com/purchase/self-hosted#requirements .


    vwracer409 said:
    G'day.
    Did you ever come along at the right time! I'm starting a build that has been over a year in the making. Our list of uses are quite similar. Mine will be a DAS box, and we refer to it (at home) as "The Library". My intent is to build this with as many old school parts as I can find. New stuff is easy, old part are satisfying. Referred to as NOS.
    I'll be following your progress. A bit like a second set of eyes. Thanks
    Click to expand...

    Would love to see anyones version of the build. I am in the dark here in terms of best in class NAS specific stuff.
    DAS being? NOS?


    zelmak said:
    Oranging.

    Anecdotally, my current NAS/Server is my old gaming PC, much like you.
    i7 8700 / Gigabyte B365 mobo / 32GB DDR4 / 120GB System / 2x4TB ZFS Mirror + 2x4TB ZFS Mirror / Fractal Define Mini
    I need to upgrade the HDDs soon, so I'm on the lookout for some deals
    Click to expand...

    Nice. This time I am inclined to go more NAS specific - but unsure what would change e.g. what is important. More cores? etc.
     
    Conza88

    Conza88

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  • #9
    wireframed said:
    I would recommend getting something that accelerates hardware encoding/decoding of h.265 for future-proofing. You can add a GPU, but that also adds power consumption, so a CPU with newer version of QuickSync is preferable. (Tigerlake or later has full 12-bit h.265 encoding capability). This will save you money but also use less power.

    Note Plex still doesn't support transcoding TO h.265, and while it could be expected they eventually will, Plex's priorities aren't always on the media-server part...

    As for RAM, it depends on what your setup will be. Are you going to run a ProxMox hypervisor with a few VMs, I'd recommend making sure you can upgrade to 64GB of RAM. And also get at least 8 cores, so you can distribute them among the VMs more easily.

    For harddisks, I'd just get the biggest, cheapest NAS/server rated disks you can - I don't think you can really rely on any brand being so much more reliable that it will matter if you don't have dozens of drives. I've had pretty good experiences with Toshiba's MG08 16TB drives, and the data from BackBlaze seems to indicate they aren't more or less reliable than average. They are also pretty inexpensive for enterprise-class disks. Fewer disks also means less power consumption. :)
    Click to expand...

    I'm all about future proofing. Thanks for comments.
    Also looking to nail the power consumption. Happy to pay more for quality.

    How does the Plex transcoding thing impact? So even if I could have hardware to transcode, it doesn't allow? So ideally I need everything in 264 instead still?

    Truenas with VM is also similar to ProxMox hypervisor?

    Any suggestions on other things to consider?
     
    steelghost

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  • #11
    I did a NAS build a few years back, there may be some ideas in my build thread and the associated discussion.

    I've since updated it from the original spec; the storage is now a single pair of mirrored 18TB (16.5TiB) drives, the PSU is an SFX-L platinum rated unit for efficiency, and the HBA card has been replaced by a high speed NIC which is connected directly to my main PC.

    Some design considerations, in no particular order (NB this is not to say you should do it like this, but it may provoke some thoughts about your own build):

    • I deliberately didn't re-use old hardware, my plan is for this NAS build to last as long as possible, be as reliable as possible, and as easy to manage as possible. To that end I've gone for a "server" motherboard with IPMI interface, ECC memory, and a CPU that gives me "enough" horsepower for storage tasks
    • I'm not trying to run serious VMs or any media transcoding, I just have a few jails for things like Syncthing and Duplicati.
    • If you're looking to minimise idle power, you want to minimise the number of drives (which also means you don't need interface cards that can run hot)
    • If you have space to put it in an ATX case, that makes hardware maintenance easier. Mine is in a miniITX case and I have to crawl under a desk to get to it. Are you likely to want to tinker or just set and forget?
    • Consider your (software) platform carefully. TrueNAS Scale is all in on Docker. Proxmox could allow you to virtualise a NAS distro and put other things in VMs or LXC containers. What do you have experience using / what do you want to learn to use?
    • Boxes like this accrue tasks over time and the limiting factor is usually memory rather than CPU. I put 32GB in mine and felt like it was overkill, now I'm wondering if I should have gone for 64GB...
     
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  • #12
    Conza88 said:
    I'm all about future proofing. Thanks for comments.
    Also looking to nail the power consumption. Happy to pay more for quality.

    How does the Plex transcoding thing impact? So even if I could have hardware to transcode, it doesn't allow? So ideally I need everything in 264 instead still?

    Truenas with VM is also similar to ProxMox hypervisor?

    Any suggestions on other things to consider?
    Click to expand...
    Regarding Plex, it just means it will transcode FROM either H.264 or h.265, but only TO h.265. At least for the moment. Eventually I’d expect Plex to implement transcoding to h.265 as well, so it’s nice to be prepared.
    Plex will use either CPU or GPU routines to accelerate transcoding which is much faster and more efficient than pure brute CPU. QuickSync works really well, and the newer versions are good quality. I think nVidia (and perhaps AMD’s equivalent) still edges out Intel, but either are pretty good.
    Especially because you only expect to transcode outside your home. It’s a fallback if you don’t have the bandwidth to play full resolution, it shouldn’t be the primary mode of playback.

    TrueNAS is AFAIK not quite similar to ProxMox, which is a Type1 hypervisor. Meaning ProxMox is first and foremost a VM hypervisor designed to run a bunch of VMs as fast as possible. It has no other purpose. TrueNAS is a storage system that also allows running VMs. But it should do fine for non-enterprise purposes, I’m not sure you would see a huge difference. Note that there are two versions of TrueNAS, core and scale.
     
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  • #13
    steelghost said:
    I did a NAS build a few years back, there may be some ideas in my build thread and the associated discussion.

    I've since updated it from the original spec; the storage is now a single pair of mirrored 18TB (16.5TiB) drives, the PSU is an SFX-L platinum rated unit for efficiency, and the HBA card has been replaced by a high speed NIC which is connected directly to my main PC.

    Some design considerations, in no particular order (NB this is not to say you should do it like this, but it may provoke some thoughts about your own build):

    • I deliberately didn't re-use old hardware, my plan is for this NAS build to last as long as possible, be as reliable as possible, and as easy to manage as possible. To that end I've gone for a "server" motherboard with IPMI interface, ECC memory, and a CPU that gives me "enough" horsepower for storage tasks
    • I'm not trying to run serious VMs or any media transcoding, I just have a few jails for things like Syncthing and Duplicati.
    • If you're looking to minimise idle power, you want to minimise the number of drives (which also means you don't need interface cards that can run hot)
    • If you have space to put it in an ATX case, that makes hardware maintenance easier. Mine is in a miniITX case and I have to crawl under a desk to get to it. Are you likely to want to tinker or just set and forget?
    • Consider your (software) platform carefully. TrueNAS Scale is all in on Docker. Proxmox could allow you to virtualise a NAS distro and put other things in VMs or LXC containers. What do you have experience using / what do you want to learn to use?
    • Boxes like this accrue tasks over time and the limiting factor is usually memory rather than CPU. I put 32GB in mine and felt like it was overkill, now I'm wondering if I should have gone for 64GB...
    Click to expand...
    Heh, yeah I recently upgraded to 64GB after rebuilding on ProxMox, because I liked being able to assign enough RAM to each VM. And when you start splitting out services instead of just throwing it all in one Windows machine, it starts adding up. I could get by with 32GB, but DDR4 is so cheap, I thought why not. :)
     
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  • #14
    Conza88 said:
    Virtual machines - at least one running Linux, MS... but then also interested in possibility of hosting website, or forum e.g.
    Click to expand...
    What's your requirements there for memory and CPU? I think that's going to drive your spec beyond the minimum or even reasonable NAS requirements that others might have.
     
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    vwracer409

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  • #15
    U-99 wrote:
    vwracer409 said:
    My intent is to build this with as many old school parts as I can find. New stuff is easy, old part are satisfying.
    Click to expand...
    D:

    Basically I won't build a system that I have no need for. 90% of my work is video. I don't play games, I haven't done high end computing since Engineering School. so I don't need a Thread Ripper, 128GB of RAM, or a super hooey MB. There are those who can justify building something "shiny". I thought by now modern CPUs would have graduated beyond 3.4, or 3.5 GB. From what I've seen they've gone nuts over cores and threads.

    Conza 88 asked what is a DAS box, and NOS? NOS is easy, New Old Stock. Most of the pieces parts I've assembled would fall into the NOS category. I only bought new if it was better than what I already had. Power supply, HSF, Optical player, SSD boot drive. I could add RAM, but even though I bought it new, who knows how long it had been on the shelf. Now for a DAS box: it is essentially a 4 bay, external enclosure for storage. It attaches directly to the computer, without a network It can be connected through SATA, SCSI, or SAS. If my research is correct, I can move it from one computer to another with no problem. or networking required. On that point I'm not positive about.

    Hope I didn't confuse everyone. I won't know for sure until I get it built.
     
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  • #16
    steelghost said:
    I did a NAS build a few years back, there may be some ideas in my build thread and the associated discussion.

    I've since updated it from the original spec; the storage is now a single pair of mirrored 18TB (16.5TiB) drives, the PSU is an SFX-L platinum rated unit for efficiency, and the HBA card has been replaced by a high speed NIC which is connected directly to my main PC.

    Some design considerations, in no particular order (NB this is not to say you should do it like this, but it may provoke some thoughts about your own build):

    • I deliberately didn't re-use old hardware, my plan is for this NAS build to last as long as possible, be as reliable as possible, and as easy to manage as possible. To that end I've gone for a "server" motherboard with IPMI interface, ECC memory, and a CPU that gives me "enough" horsepower for storage tasks
    • I'm not trying to run serious VMs or any media transcoding, I just have a few jails for things like Syncthing and Duplicati.
    • If you're looking to minimise idle power, you want to minimise the number of drives (which also means you don't need interface cards that can run hot)
    • If you have space to put it in an ATX case, that makes hardware maintenance easier. Mine is in a miniITX case and I have to crawl under a desk to get to it. Are you likely to want to tinker or just set and forget?
    • Consider your (software) platform carefully. TrueNAS Scale is all in on Docker. Proxmox could allow you to virtualise a NAS distro and put other things in VMs or LXC containers. What do you have experience using / what do you want to learn to use?
    • Boxes like this accrue tasks over time and the limiting factor is usually memory rather than CPU. I put 32GB in mine and felt like it was overkill, now I'm wondering if I should have gone for 64GB...
    Click to expand...

    Nice. This will help. Also not looking to use anything old (besides the 2 * 12 TB HDD)? And backups.
    • I also want to go 'sever' specific, ECC memory, and whatever CPU works the best with that.
    • Not serious VM's either, or any intense transcoding beyond Plex stuff. Although kind of like the option, if I open it up to family (externally located)
    • Set and forget is the goal, but ease of fixing too. Anything in between miniITX and ATX?
    • I have gotten kind of used to TrueNas Core, it was a biatch at times to problem solve things but have learnt to make it work.
      • Very much a windows kind of knowledge, although slowly grasping linux and command line but not very good.
      • But running plugins on TrueNas core, and a VM or two on Trusenas, plus with VirtualBox elsewhere.
    • I wouldn't want to be limited by memory. I've got 64gb in my main pc, that is overkill without any VM's etc.
    • Fairly quite and real similar use case to your write up I think.

    wireframed said:
    Regarding Plex, it just means it will transcode FROM either H.264 or h.265, but only TO h.265. At least for the moment. Eventually I’d expect Plex to implement transcoding to h.265 as well, so it’s nice to be prepared.
    Plex will use either CPU or GPU routines to accelerate transcoding which is much faster and more efficient than pure brute CPU. QuickSync works really well, and the newer versions are good quality. I think nVidia (and perhaps AMD’s equivalent) still edges out Intel, but either are pretty good.
    Especially because you only expect to transcode outside your home. It’s a fallback if you don’t have the bandwidth to play full resolution, it shouldn’t be the primary mode of playback.

    TrueNAS is AFAIK not quite similar to ProxMox, which is a Type1 hypervisor. Meaning ProxMox is first and foremost a VM hypervisor designed to run a bunch of VMs as fast as possible. It has no other purpose. TrueNAS is a storage system that also allows running VMs. But it should do fine for non-enterprise purposes, I’m not sure you would see a huge difference. Note that there are two versions of TrueNAS, core and scale.
    Click to expand...

    Are there are 'sever' type CPU's that have QuickSync? I like the idea of a solid cpu that can handle transcoding, GPU will be overkill I suspect? Or is there something that can lay idle unless necessary?

    I think more storage orientated than VM, but like the option. Core is mature, and scale is real fresh - yeah? Is there an end of life for core you think, and scale gets all the ongoing resources?

    continuum said:
    What's your requirements there for memory and CPU? I think that's going to drive your spec beyond the minimum or even reasonable NAS requirements that others might have.
    Click to expand...

    At least 32gb for memory, ECC. Like the idea of 64gb. Very unsure about CPU. I mean that intel has been trucking along for decades+. But also AMD has come a long way. Server stuff, I'm very ignorant. Open to recommendations.
     
    Conza88

    Conza88

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  • #18
    Hi team,

    So would I be crazy for going with Intel Xeon? Is there an AMD equivalent? "The Intel Xeon line is specially designed for science and data-heavy workflows." Not doing that, but more cores, lower power etc?

    Xeon E - has integrated graphics. Intel® UHD Graphics P750 -> makes more sense than any kind of GPU?
    This going to help with Plex transcoding? Better than a dedicated GPU with more power?

    I'm unsure about whole gigabit network thing, 2.5gb? 10g? What to look at?

    I really only have local on site usage for myself/family, but want to open it up to brother/father/mother etc. access to Plex. So possibly quite a few trying to watch something at one time (them externally).


    Taking a look at these at the moment:

    1680864620452.png

    Any thoughts on what would be best out of these? Lower power... higher base... more cache.. more cores... more threads? Unsure what is best for NAS.
     
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  • #19
    As long as you get ECC support on whatever platform you choose? I wouldn't otherwise pay anything extra for the CPU. Video decoding is basically built in to all modern GPUs, integrated or not, so again I wouldn't spend money on a separate GPU if your CPU already has an integrated GPU.

    As far as CPU cores/threads/cache, honestly, a NAS doesn't require much. It's really going to be your VM performance requirements that drive those past sort of the baseline 4C/8T that most desktop CPUs are already at a minimum. And CPUs already only draw as much power as needed, so I wouldn't worry about lower-power versions or whatnot at this point in your system specification process.
     
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    IceStorm

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  • #20
    Conza88 said:
    Hi team,

    So would I be crazy for going with Intel Xeon? Is there an AMD equivalent?
    Click to expand...
    You do not currently need a Xeon for ECC, and you don't need a special board for AMD ECC support.

    ECC Unbuffered DIMMs work with Alder Lake and Raptor Lake desktop CPUs when paired with a W680 board.

    Asus has their W680 board, the Pro WS W680-ACE (and one bundled with an IPMI card), and Supermicro has a couple boards as well (filter by 12th/13th gen on the left). They're going to be pricey ($370-$500), but that's what ECC costs on Intel. Provantage has Kingston ECC Unbuffered DDR5-4800 16GB DIMMs for $73, though they'll probably ding you on shipping.

    You could also go with Zen 3 if you don't need an iGPU. A decent B550 or X570 board will work fine as most support ECC Unbuffered DDR4. If you want an actual server board with IPMI, ASRock has a mATX board with eight SATA ports that's going for $375 at Newegg. The price of a Kingston ECC Unbuffered DDR4-3200 16GB DIMM is $45.

    I don't think AM5/Zen 4 are stable enough to recommend at this point.
     
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  • #21
    If you're buying specific hardware, I think you definitely want a BMC. One of those ASUS W680 boards, 64GB RAM, an i5 (i3 would probably be fine, an i7 if you're feeling fancy!), gives you dual onboard 2.5Gig ethernet, separate BMC LAN connection, more than enough CPU horse power for almost anything you'd want a server to do. The only issue with that platform is that I don't know how well FreeBSD deals with the asymmetric nature of the P&E cores, so you would probably end up turning off the E cores until they were properly supported (which might be, uh, a while!)
     
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  • #22
    Hi team,

    It's been a hot minute. Moved and different setup has presented different challenges e.g. old school place, and preferences for old 'server' to not be in the main room constantly running noisily (fair) means I'm prospecting running a 30m cat 8 cable around to the otherside of the house, where it can live permanently.

    Alternatively; an ultra-quiet get you basically don't know existed - could reside near the wifi easily etc.

    Prospects of utilising this?

    https://www.corsair.com/us/en/p/pc-...-airflow-mini-itx-pc-case-black-cc-9011244-ww

    Or even a setup with nvme or SSD only? And little need for active cooling?
     
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  • #23
    https://www.devops.lol/diy-nas/ worth a read as he looks at a lot of different platforms and their pros and cons. His choice of a 9th gen i3 makes a lot of sense for this use case; supports ECC, has an iGPU, pretty power efficient, four reasonably performant cores. It's a very similar build to mine in terms of the base platform.

    You could absolutely build a near silent NAS - mine has an SFX-L PSU that is Platinum rated and hence efficient enough not to run its fans below a certain load level, therefore it's essentially passive and almost silent. The fans in it are running at low speeds (not more than 700rpm from memory) and if I was prepared to go with SATA SSDs and put an HBA in the single PCIe slot it would be inaudible.

    It's also fairly easy to get motherboards / CPUs to be silent by overspeccing the cooler, the challenge is usually the drives, especially as your 12TB drives will be 7.2k rpm models that are going to make more noise (and vibration) than 5.4k ones. The Corsair case you link to only has 2.5in bays, which would work fine for SSDs for a compact gaming machine or workstation, but won't accomodate your spinning drives. So you end up choosing between capacity and silence really. You could split the difference and put 6 or 8TB 5.4k drives in there, but you're then spending more money and getting less storage.

    If you can swing the long ethernet cable (absolutely doesn't need Cat 8 btw - Cat 5 almost certainly fine) that would be plan A in my view.
     
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    tadams

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  • #24
    I have the Jonsbo N2. I'm going to post about it more in depth when I get through all my work-work and school-work, but I think it's a pretty decent NAS case. Cooling is the only real issue as it takes a 120x15 fan in the back blowing across the 3.5" drives, and then only the CPU cooler for the mobo/cpu/etc in the top of the case. The rubber grommets for mounting the 3.5" drives do a pretty good job of dampening the hard drive vibration.
     
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  • #26
    Conza88 said:
    Is something like this ultimately what might be suitable? A mini pc?

    https://shop.nitrokey.com/shop/product/nitropc-132
    Click to expand...
    I mean, you could build a NAS using something like that, but it's only got a mount for a single 2.5" drive, which limits you to about 4TB of non-redundant storage space. You're paying a premium for a small form factor. If you really need that then fine, but if you want to put any reasonable amount of storage into this system, it's not going to work.
    Conza88 said:
    Feel like I'm getting stuck with so many options atm.
    Click to expand...
    There's dozens (hundreds, probably) of ways to build (or buy) a NAS. You could build a totally silent system using passiely cooled CPU and all solid state storage, but that's expensive and unless you have a connection that's faster than gigabit ethernet, the extra speed is (somewhat) wasted.

    Go back to basics - what do you want from this build? Did you manage to run a cable to the alternative location you mentioned above - if so you may be all set, just move the current box?

    If it does need to live in the same space as your TV etc, how much storage does it need to provide? Does it need to be absolutely silent, or merely 'quiet'?

    And lastly, what's your budget? (and might that budget potentially be best spent on getting a professional in to run that cable?!)
     
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  • #27
    steelghost said:
    I mean, you could build a NAS using something like that, but it's only got a mount for a single 2.5" drive, which limits you to about 4TB of non-redundant storage space. You're paying a premium for a small form factor. If you really need that then fine, but if you want to put any reasonable amount of storage into this system, it's not going to work.
    Click to expand...

    Good point. I definitely don't want to limit capability/storage/future expansion etc. small form factor is nice to have, but was more a proxy for silent I think. I have a pretty large/heavy Antec tower - just real noisy. Same size but silent/quieter would be real nice. Does not need to live in the same room as the TV etc, anymore.

    steelghost said:
    There's dozens (hundreds, probably) of ways to build (or buy) a NAS. You could build a totally silent system using passiely cooled CPU and all solid state storage, but that's expensive and unless you have a connection that's faster than gigabit ethernet, the extra speed is (somewhat) wasted.

    Go back to basics - what do you want from this build? Did you manage to run a cable to the alternative location you mentioned above - if so you may be all set, just move the current box?

    If it does need to live in the same space as your TV etc, how much storage does it need to provide? Does it need to be absolutely silent, or merely 'quiet'?

    And lastly, what's your budget? (and might that budget potentially be best spent on getting a professional in to run that cable?!)
    Click to expand...

    I do like the sound of the totally silent passively cooled CPU and all solid state storage - even if expensive, but yes - connection not faster than gigabit. Just 100MB down atm. The answer was border line silent, but more just quiet now (since in other room).

    I did run a ethernet cable all the way around the side of the house very nicely - directly from the router, to an old router I made into another access point. I then have my noisy 10 year old NAS in the study, directly connected to the old router access point. It's definitely pushed off any immediate need.

    I think - I do get these critical alerts every now and then, but haven't paid too much attention to them.

    1689681065511.png

    Budget: $3k-ish? Could stretch. I envisage it lasting 10 years. Similar to hot-rod style but for NAS. Looking at SSD only - think too small.
    Way to incorporate / mix that though? Or is it just OS on SSD, and then yeah several large HDD's? I guess less mean less noise?
     
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  • #28
    That budget's in Aussie dollars, right? :)

    Conza88 said:
    connection not faster than gigabit. Just 100MB down atm
    Click to expand...
    I'm wondering if you mean your internet connection (specifically when you say "100MB down")? When I said connection speed I was thinking of the LAN link between your NAS and the rest of the network - I'd be surprised if that wasn't gigabit at this point, unless you have a REALLY old switch? :)
     
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  • #29
    steelghost said:
    That budget's in Aussie dollars, right? :)
    Click to expand...
    I would have missed that and was about to suggest just getting an Asus Flashtor 12 and loading it with 4TB nvme.

    Otherwise, I'd probably look at something like this ASRock board which includes a celeron N100 CPU. While in raw compute, it's probably only 50% better than your old i5, it has Quicksync so that'd solve your plex transcoding since you seem to have plexpass. Get an HBA card for your sata storage, a microatx case that you like and you'd be good.
     
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  • #30
    On the other end of the spectrum, if you wanted to go all out (and buy into a platform that would really last, albeit is overkill for your basic NAS setup):

    PCPartPicker Part List

    CPU: Intel Core i5-13400 2.5 GHz 10-Core Processor ($359.00 @ Centre Com)
    CPU Cooler: Thermalright Frost Commander 140 BLACK 95.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($118.05 @ Amazon Australia)
    Storage: Solidigm P41 Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($98.95 @ Mwave Australia)
    Storage: Solidigm P41 Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($98.95 @ Mwave Australia)
    Case: Fractal Design Define 7 ATX Mid Tower Case ($269.00 @ PLE Computers)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Platinum 550 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($176.00 @ Skycomp Technology)
    Case Fan: Noctua P14s redux-1500 PWM 78.69 CFM 140 mm Fan ($35.00 @ MSY Technology)
    Case Fan: Noctua P14s redux-1500 PWM 78.69 CFM 140 mm Fan ($35.00 @ MSY Technology)
    Custom: Supermicro X13SAE-F ($970.00)
    Custom: 2x MICRON 32GB DDR5 Server RAM ECC - UDIMM - 2Rx8 - 4800 - CL40 ($570.00)
    Total: $2729.95
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-07-19 01:36 AEST+1000

    It doesn't include drives, my assumption would be you'd migrate your existing 12GB spinners and add more when you were ready - the case has plenty of drive bays and the board has 8 SATA ports. You've got mirrored boot drives that could also support plenty of VMs etc, latest IGP from Intel to support Plex.

    You could scale the budget back by re-using your existing boot SSD or not mirroring, reducing the RAM to 32GB (board has four slots so you could upgrade this later). You need the W680 chipset to support ECC on Intel 13th Gen, but that board does get you lots of connectivity.

    Depends how much you want that "server grade" experience :)
     
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  • #31
    steelghost said:
    On the other end of the spectrum, if you wanted to go all out (and buy into a platform that would really last, albeit is overkill for your basic NAS setup):

    PCPartPicker Part List

    CPU: Intel Core i5-13400 2.5 GHz 10-Core Processor ($359.00 @ Centre Com)
    CPU Cooler: Thermalright Frost Commander 140 BLACK 95.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($118.05 @ Amazon Australia)
    Storage: Solidigm P41 Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($98.95 @ Mwave Australia)
    Storage: Solidigm P41 Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($98.95 @ Mwave Australia)
    Case: Fractal Design Define 7 ATX Mid Tower Case ($269.00 @ PLE Computers)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Platinum 550 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($176.00 @ Skycomp Technology)
    Case Fan: Noctua P14s redux-1500 PWM 78.69 CFM 140 mm Fan ($35.00 @ MSY Technology)
    Case Fan: Noctua P14s redux-1500 PWM 78.69 CFM 140 mm Fan ($35.00 @ MSY Technology)
    Custom: Supermicro X13SAE-F ($970.00)
    Custom: 2x MICRON 32GB DDR5 Server RAM ECC - UDIMM - 2Rx8 - 4800 - CL40 ($570.00)
    Total: $2729.95
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-07-19 01:36 AEST+1000

    It doesn't include drives, my assumption would be you'd migrate your existing 12GB spinners and add more when you were ready - the case has plenty of drive bays and the board has 8 SATA ports. You've got mirrored boot drives that could also support plenty of VMs etc, latest IGP from Intel to support Plex.

    You could scale the budget back by re-using your existing boot SSD or not mirroring, reducing the RAM to 32GB (board has four slots so you could upgrade this later). You need the W680 chipset to support ECC on Intel 13th Gen, but that board does get you lots of connectivity.

    Depends how much you want that "server grade" experience :)
    Click to expand...
    This is pretty much exactly the area I want to play in / ball park i.e. overkill, but adds longevity/quality and upgradability, data redundancy protection.

    What is the deal with Super Micro? If there was an ASUS equivalent? (I tend to value them above all, since never really having any issues on all last 2 builds). Is there any more future proofing to be done? That was in July?

    Is there a best time to buy? No particular rush at this point per se.
     
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  • #32
    steelghost said:
    That budget's in Aussie dollars, right? :)


    I'm wondering if you mean your internet connection (specifically when you say "100MB down")? When I said connection speed I was thinking of the LAN link between your NAS and the rest of the network - I'd be surprised if that wasn't gigabit at this point, unless you have a REALLY old switch? :)
    Click to expand...
    I am not sure. I have an ethernet cable connecting my main PC to router AP, which is connected directly to NAS server.
    When I transfer anything; usually only get 30mb/s - 90mb/s?

    Yes, 100mb download speeds from internet. I can pay for faster, but no particular need I think
     
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  • #33
    Conza88 said:
    I am not sure. I have an ethernet cable connecting my main PC to router AP, which is connected directly to NAS server.
    When I transfer anything; usually only get 30mb/s - 90mb/s?

    Yes, 100mb download speeds from internet. I can pay for faster, but no particular need I think
    Click to expand...
    When you say you get 30-90mb per second, do you mean megabits or megabytes? Internet service speed is commonly denominated in megabits, but data transfer on a LAN or in a system is quite often (nut not always!) talked about in megabytes. The reason this is important is that there is a factor of 8 difference between these units.

    If you look at the Properties of your ethernet connection on your PC, you'll probably find it says something like "1000/1000 (Mbps)", which implies a "gigabit" LAN connection (gigabit = one billion bits per second, which comes from 1000 megabits, or a thousand million bits per second).

    My guess is that you are seeing LAN transfer speeds of 30-90 megabytes per second, which would be right in line with a normal NAS operating over a gigabit LAN connection. You are bottlenecked by the LAN speed at the high end, and by the latency of the hard drive itself at the low end (meaning, if you're transferring lots of small files the latency of the hard drive in finding each one before it gets sent over the wire limits the total transfer speed).
    Conza88 said:
    What is the deal with Super Micro? If there was an ASUS equivalent? (I tend to value them above all, since never really having any issues on all last 2 builds). Is there any more future proofing to be done? That was in July?
    Click to expand...

    Supermicro build real server hardware, the kind that lives in actual datacentres and runs 24/7 at full load for years :D By definition it's going to be a bit behind the desktop bleeding edge, but a platform like the one I've described is plenty performant for a home server use case. For straight file serving it's monstrous overkill, especially if you're talking about gigabit LAN speeds, but you're wanting to do Plex, run VMs, etc, so you want something with more horsepower (for now and for a few years to come).

    As for time to buy - since I posted the spec I see that particular board has gone of stock at that vendor, I don't know if that's because Supermicro have discontinued it (seems unlikely) or just because they don't sell many of them and they're waiting for the next ship to come in from Taiwan. My point being, for less mainstream hardware the time to buy is "when you can get it".

    For more mainstream stuff like more or less everything else on the list, you want to be tracking "typical" pricing and then looking out for any deals - although to a certain extent, if you're prepared to drop AU$1000 on the board, and half as much again on the RAM, you don't want those expensive parts sitting around while you look out for the best possible deal on commodity parts like hard drives or power supplies.
     
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  • #34
    steelghost said:
    My guess is that you are seeing LAN transfer speeds of 30-90 megabytes per second, which would be right in line with a normal NAS operating over a gigabit LAN connection. You are bottlenecked by the LAN speed at the high end, and by the latency of the hard drive itself at the low end (meaning, if you're transferring lots of small files the latency of the hard drive in finding each one before it gets sent over the wire limits the total transfer speed).
    Click to expand...

    That's correct. What would you recommend then? I should focus on a system or network that can handle faster LAN speeds? What are the options?

    steelghost said:
    Supermicro build real server hardware, the kind that lives in actual datacentres and runs 24/7 at full load for years :D By definition it's going to be a bit behind the desktop bleeding edge, but a platform like the one I've described is plenty performant for a home server use case. For straight file serving it's monstrous overkill, especially if you're talking about gigabit LAN speeds, but you're wanting to do Plex, run VMs, etc, so you want something with more horsepower (for now and for a few years to come).

    As for time to buy - since I posted the spec I see that particular board has gone of stock at that vendor, I don't know if that's because Supermicro have discontinued it (seems unlikely) or just because they don't sell many of them and they're waiting for the next ship to come in from Taiwan. My point being, for less mainstream hardware the time to buy is "when you can get it".

    For more mainstream stuff like more or less everything else on the list, you want to be tracking "typical" pricing and then looking out for any deals - although to a certain extent, if you're prepared to drop AU$1000 on the board, and half as much again on the RAM, you don't want those expensive parts sitting around while you look out for the best possible deal on commodity parts like hard drives or power supplies.
    Click to expand...

    7 months later roughly speaking... what would you say has changed in the market?
     
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  • #35
    Conza88 said:
    That's correct. What would you recommend then? I should focus on a system or network that can handle faster LAN speeds? What are the options?
    Click to expand...
    Honestly, unless you can point to a use case where you're saying to yourself "man, I really wish this file transfer was loads quicker", there isn't much point in trying to upgrade your network past gigabit. We are getting to a stage where 2.5Gbit NICs and switches are fairly commonplace and not prohibitively expensive, but that's still additional expense that probably isn't necessary.

    Conza88 said:
    7 months later roughly speaking... what would you say has changed in the market?
    Click to expand...
    From your point of view, not a whole lot. Building a NAS that can saturate a gigabit link and run some VMs is not a challenging hardware task. You could do it very much on the cheap, or you could go for overkill, or somewhere in between. Or you could just grab something ready built, for instance.

    EDIT: Added more links
     
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  • #36
    Conza88 said:
    That's correct. What would you recommend then? I should focus on a system or network that can handle faster LAN speeds? What are the options?
    Click to expand...
    After re-skimming your thread I'm actually not very clear what you have aside for some 12TB disks, but those for large sequential transfers should easily exceed what gigabit ethernet can do, so I would upgrade all of your network components to 2.5GbE or whatnot.

    If you're measuring small file performance (4K, 8K, file sizes/blocks) then that's a different challenge.

    @steelghost beat me to the rest of the answer.
     
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  • #37
    steelghost said:
    Honestly, unless you can point to a use case where you're saying to yourself "man, I really wish this file transfer was loads quicker", there isn't much point in trying to upgrade your network past gigabit. We are getting to a stage where 2.5Gbit NICs and switches are fairly commonplace and not prohibitively expensive, but that's still additional expense that probably isn't necessary.
    Click to expand...
    Yeah just want to make sure I have the fastest possible within reason. 2.5Gbit NIC's would be 2.5x faster?

    steelghost said:
    From your point of view, not a whole lot. Building a NAS that can saturate a gigabit link and run some VMs is not a challenging hardware task. You could do it very much on the cheap, or you could go for overkill, or somewhere in between. Or you could just grab something ready built, for instance.

    EDIT: Added more links
    Click to expand...

    Many thanks. Overkill. Looking at more cores - would integrated graphics be helpful/important? Quiteness is important too, so not looking for a GPU for transcoding. Or should I be?

    Not sure what is important - number of cores, yes... less so core performance? Wattage - low is good? If always on?

    1711627580563.png

    So Intel Xeon E5? Intel i7-13700 - integrated graphics? Intel i7-13700K?
     
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  • #38
    Conza88 said:
    Yeah just want to make sure I have the fastest possible within reason. 2.5Gbit NIC's would be 2.5x faster?
    Click to expand...
    Given your 12TB disks may or may not be able to saturate 2.5GbE it's hard to say if it's going to be truly 2.5x faster, even in large sequential transfers.


    Conza88 said:
    Looking at more cores - would integrated graphics be helpful/important? Quiteness is important too, so not looking for a GPU for transcoding. Or should I be?
    Click to expand...
    Am still a bit unclear here on your intended usage, but you can transcode on a modern integrated GPU just fine.

    Modern CPUs all should idle very low so if by wattage you mean maximum TDP, AI wouldn't stress about that part too much at all.
     
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  • #39
    continuum said:
    Given your 12TB disks may or may not be able to saturate 2.5GbE it's hard to say if it's going to be truly 2.5x faster, even in large sequential transfers.
    Click to expand...
    I have a pair of 18TB drives in a box with a 10gbit fibre link to my main PC and while I have seen nearly 200MB/s from them on occasions, it's not really the norm. I'd say on average you get about 50% more throughput than you would over gigabit.

    Edit: unit prefix correction!
     
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