Recommend me a Socket AM4 mobo (plus advice on RAM compatibility)

Knightmare · Jun 8, 2024

I'm looking for a mobo/CPU/RAM upgrade for a secondary PC I which currently use for Linux. It currently has a very old Socket FM2+ mobo w/ an A-series APU and 16BGB DDR3 which I got for free. I intend to keep using it for Linux, but I also want to add a second SSD which can be used to boot Windows 10 or 11 as needed.

I'm leaning towards a Socket AM4 Ryzen build because of the easy availability and low prices of Zen2 CPUs on the used market. However, I've never done a Ryzen build before. My most recent system build was a Rocket Lake one I did for a relative last year.

My hard requirements are standard ATX, a PS/2 port, 8 chipset SATA ports, and a price of around $200 or less. I'd like this mobo to be a possible fallback if a hardware failure were to strike my main X99 rig, which has a lot of SATA drives. This narrows the field to the X570 chipset, which can be configured with 4, 8, or 12 SATA ports according to AMD's promo slides.

I've found three current available mobos though a few hours of searching that fit these requirements:

ASUS TUF Gaming X570-Plus (Wi-Fi) ($184.99 USD):

ASRock X570 Steel Legend ($139.99 USD)

ASRock X570 TAICHI ($211.99 USD)

Note that I don't actually need WiFi for this system, but the non-WiFi version of the Asus TUF board is no longer available at a reasonable price.

I've never done a build with an ASRock mobo, is there anything I should know about their AM4 lineup? In years past, they had a reputation for tweaker-focused boards that had thorny issues with the bread & butter features. But more recently I've heard that they've drasticly improved things.

Are there any other viable opions that I may have overlooked?

Also, are there still concerns about RAM compatibility with Ryzen? Is there a need to strictly stick with a mobo's RAM QVL, or will just about any RAM the manufacturer claims is Ryzen-compatible work fine?

In particular, I'm looking at this kit:
Corsair VENGEANCE LPX DDR4 RAM 32GB (2x16GB) 3200MHz CL16 ($62.99 USD)

It's not on the Asus or ASRock QVLs (which are full of discontinued SKUs), but according to this Tom's hardware article, it is Ryzen compatible.

Finally, I'm looking at getting this CPU cooler because of its good reviews:
DeepCool AK400 ($28.49 USD)

The last system build I did used the Noctua NH-U12S Redux and it worked well, but this one is significantly less expensive.

whm2074 · Jun 9, 2024

I have the ASUS TUF Gaming B550 Plus WiFi II and haven't had any stability issues with it.

steelghost · Jun 9, 2024

AM4 / Ryzen is a pretty mature and relatively kink free platform at this point.

Of the three boards you mention, as long as they have the quantity of SATA ports you want them I would not anticipate any showstopping problems with any of them. The Asus would be my choice of the three, but if you're running a fairly standard workstation type setup, the Steel Legend should be fine and save you some money. What CPU are you looking at? If the higher core count 3900X you might want to set a CPU power limit to keep things under control with that Deepcool cooler, but other than that it should be fine.

diabol1k · Jun 9, 2024

Pcpartpicker’s filters found a couple other asrock x570 boards but nothing else, so I don’t think you’re missing anything in the search.

Tough to comment on the CPU cooler without knowing your CPU choice and other requirements. In particular - how do you balance quiet operation vs. cooking performance?

IceStorm · Jun 9, 2024

Knightmare said:
I'm leaning towards a Socket AM4 Ryzen build because of the easy availability and low prices of Zen2 CPUs on the used market.

How low are you seeing? 8-core Zen 3 CPUs are pretty cheap these days.

This narrows the field to the X570 chipset, which can be configured with 4, 8, or 12 SATA ports according to AMD's promo slides.

Not exactly. SATA is a bit of a mess:

AMD Zen 2 Architecture Explored: What Makes Ryzen 3000 So Powerful Image Gallery

Just prior to hosting its Next Horizon E3 Livestream event, AMD treated press and industry analysts to additional deep dive technical details...

hothardware.com

The CPU itself can support two SATA ports. The X570 chipset has four dedicated SATA ports, and then two "pick one" ports, each of which could support four SATA ports. What many motherboard makers did is wire those "pick one" ports up to some sort of switch, so that if you wanted SATA, it meant forgoing PCIe slots or vice versa.

The tl,dr version is check the motherboard manual for the board you plan to buy to see if there is any mention of SATA port conflict with PCIe or NVMe slots. The chipset specs don't mean much.

I've found three current available mobos though a few hours of searching that fit these requirements:

This is everything on PC Part Picker that is AM4 with 8 SATA ports. Can't filter for PS2 ports, but the first few hits have PS2 ports.

If you can see yourself to using mATX, the first hit is a MSI Pro B550M-VC Wifi. It has eight SATA ports, four from the chipset and four from an ASMedia ASM1064 controller. Also has a PS2 port. Only costs $116.

The next two ASRock offerings bury the primary m.2 slot under the GPU. If your GPU isn't too high power, it may be ok, but I wouldn't stick, say, a 3080 over that slot

Also, are there still concerns about RAM compatibility with Ryzen?

Just use a 2x16GB DDR4-3200 CL16 kit and it should be fine. Many people say get DDR4-3600, but there's no guarantee the Infinity fabric will run at 1800Mhz (most of my Ryzen CPUs do not). 1600Mhz is "safe".

I don't see a particular reason to go with Corsair. Silicon Power or Teamgroup is $10-13 cheaper and will be fine.

Is there a need to strictly stick with a mobo's RAM QVL,

For 2x16GB, not particularly. You'd want to stick more closely to the QVL if doing something higher capacity, like 2x32GB, 4x16GB, or 4x32GB.

Finally, I'm looking at getting this CPU cooler because of its good reviews:
DeepCool AK400 ($28.49 USD)

That'll depend entirely on the CPU you use. I wouldn't use it on the "105W" TDP parts. Flat-out, a Zen 2 or Zen 3 105W part is going to use ~142W. The cooler is fine for the 65w parts, but the current darling is the dual tower Thermalright Peerless Assassin, and at $31, it's hard to argue against.

Knightmare · Jun 9, 2024

IceStorm said:
The CPU itself can support two SATA ports.

I know about the CPU SATA ports. I was under the impression that 500-series chipset boards generally don't use them anymore, as pretty much every system build these days is going to use the x4 PCIe link from the CPU for an NVMe SSD.

IceStorm said:
The X570 chipset has four dedicated SATA ports, and then two "pick one" ports, each of which could support four SATA ports. What many motherboard makers did is wire those "pick one" ports up to some sort of switch, so that if you wanted SATA, it meant forgoing PCIe slots or vice versa.

I looked at the X570 Steel Legend and X570 Taichi's manuals, they don't mention any PCIe lane sharing with the SATA ports. They also don't mention whether all of the ports are from the X570 chipset or a secondary controller. The Asus TUF X570 board's manual clearly states that all 8 SATA ports are from the chipset, and also says nothing about any of them sharing lanes.

IceStorm said:
If you can see yourself to using mATX, the first hit is a MSI Pro B550M-VC Wifi.

I don't see myself using micro ATX. I will be replacing the FM2+ mobo in a standard ATX case. Putting a micro ATX board in a standard ATX case is a bit of a peeve for me.

IceStorm said:
The next two ASRock offerings bury the primary m.2 slot under the GPU. If your GPU isn't too high power, it may be ok, but I wouldn't stick, say, a 3080 over that slot

I also don't see myself using a GPU with a TGP of more than 250W in this build (the one I intend to use is 180W), so having an M.2 slot under that shouldn't be a problem.

IceStorm said:
That'll depend entirely on the CPU you use. I wouldn't use it on the "105W" TDP parts. Flat-out, a Zen 2 or Zen 3 105W part is going to use ~142W. The cooler is fine for the 65w parts, but the current darling is the dual tower Thermalright Peerless Assassin, and at $[URL='https://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-Peerless-Assassin-Aluminium-Technology/dp/B09SD44SL1/ref=sr_1_5?

For the CPU, I'm looking at probably getting a 3600X (95W), though the 3800X (105W) is still a possibility. A future upgrade to the upcoming 5900XT might be possible, if I end up repurposing the system.

I take it that the AK400's advertised support for "220W" CPUs is false, then. I'll consider the Peerless Assassin, which is still a 120mm design. From reviews, larger 140mm coolers won't fit on the Steel Legend, as it has its main PCIe x16 slot in the topmost position.

And the non-WiFi Steel Legend is now out of stock on Amazon as well as Newegg =/ I'll have to consider the $150 WiFi model still in stock at Newegg.

RicDavis · Jun 10, 2024

Knightmare said:
For the CPU, I'm looking at probably getting a 3600X (95W), though the 3800X (105W) is still a possibility. A future upgrade to the upcoming 5900XT might be possible, if I end up repurposing the system.

I take it that the AK400's advertised support for "220W" CPUs is false, then. I'll consider the Peerless Assassin, which is still a 120mm design. From reviews, larger 140mm coolers won't fit on the Steel Legend, as it has its main PCIe x16 slot in the topmost position.

Do you have many workloads that keep enough cores busy for long enough that it matters? i.e. is the system for web browsing or rendering?

Knightmare · Jun 10, 2024

It's currently used for app development on Linux. After the upgrade, it will pull also double duty as a LAN box.

I will have a heavy workload once my app development reaches a certain point in the future. A workload that can use many threads (64+) with nearly perfect scaling on a suite of compute utilities. At that point I will likely want a compute server, but it would be premature to purchase a 16-core CPU now.

Nevarre · Jun 11, 2024

$0.02 as a 3700X / 5600H / 5800X3D owner.

The Zen 2 parts are good, but the performance is only "good" not "great" in 2024. The 3700X is arguably a better choice than a 3800X as it runs a lot cooler. If you can find one with its original cooler, the wraith prism is 100% sufficient for cooling that CPU and you can avoid a 3rd party air cooler and its expense. It's not great for games, but it's good enough that I repurposed it for my kid's mostly gaming computer after using for 3+ years as my primary system. For gaming the 6-core CPUs are OK for light use and minimum cost, with the non-X being close enough that the price savings is worth it. It's all about your need for highest performance when gaming (and the kiddo mostly plays less demanding games plus of course it was sufficient for schoolwork.)

If you're serious about gaming on AM4, find a way to pay for the X3D parts-- even one of the newer 5700X3D or whatever. The performance uplift is significant. That's not going to be the ideal 16-core compilation beast, but it might split the difference if you just want to buy one CPU. AM4 is on life support anyway and it's amazing that there are still new processors for it... but it won't be all that viable forever.

steelghost · Jun 11, 2024

It's all relative though isn't it. If your performance baseline is an FM2+ part, anything Zen3 (or even an 8 core Zen 2) is going to scream by comparison. Plus you get access to the latest USB and storage standards. For app dev work (accepting that those two words cover a lot of ground), you could potentially get years of productive use out of a 3900X, even if you had to set a power limit to keep it from getting too toasty.

Nevarre · Jun 11, 2024

For sure, and it depends on where you're sourcing your (used) parts as well. Point being a used 3700X is basically disposably cheap at this point and low power in the $80-100 range. That makes a 3600X harder to justify IMHO and the 3800X was always harder to justify for the greater heat issues for a marginal performance benefit. That said the going rate around $100 for the 3700X is getting really close in price to Zen 3 with a 5700X (non-3D) new in box for about $150. Going up the stack it just depends on what pricing you can get for a 3900X or 3950X. I'm having trouble finding a trustworthy source that's cheap enough to justify over just biting the bullet and getting say a 5900X or if gaming is your thing -- find the money to pay for a 5700X3D or 5800X3D even if it means eating Ramen for a month lol. At $200, a 5700X3D (new) is an amazing deal.

Of course with used parts, you might get lucky on pricing and find someone who wants to upgrade a Zen2 system. It's just hard to predict.

To be fair the kiddo's system has a 3700X not because a 3700X is the greatest possible CPU. It's because it's a Good Enough CPU that was already 100% paid for. It all comes down to price for most of these-- they're all really good in comparison to anything pre-Zen, but the 'going rate' prices are overlapping and a marginal price difference can sometimes net you a big performance boost..

Knightmare · Jun 11, 2024

The eBay auction prices I've seen recently are ~$70 for a 3600X and ~$90 for a 3800X. Either of those or a 3700X is more than good enough for a secondary PC until I have a specific need to justify anything faster.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that this mobo/CPU will be paired with a GTX 1070Ti when equipped for LAN box duty, so the performance of a Zen3 X3D CPU would be mostly wasted.

Nevarre · Jun 12, 2024

Hmm. I don't have the energy to flip video cards around and benchmark, but I still have my old 1070Ti and both a 3700X and 5800X3D. I'm honestly not sure how much bottlenecking I'd see if any between the two processors when using a 1070Ti. The 1070Ti was definitely performance constrained on a fast Ivy Bridge going to a 3700X, so you're probably coming from a position of bottlenecking now to a much less constrained GPU waiting on its CPU a lot less (in all of the above scenarios with Zen2, Zen3, whatever.) If you do upgrade the 1070Ti to something in the Ada Lovelace or potentially Blackwell generation in the next few years, then I'd be more concerned about bottlenecking later with a Zen2 than Zen3 (although Ada is still PCIe 4.0 and it's likely Blackwell will be also.)

I'm just saying that unless you find a great deal, the 'deals' on used Zen 2 may not be deep enough considering that Zen 3 is already seeing tremendous discounts. Zen 2 used pricing vs Zen 3 full MSRP? Sure, but the prices on the street are nowhere near MSRP anymore. 40-50% off list is common online and Microcenter may be cheaper still.

For example, despite the core count difference a Ryzen 5 5500 is pretty much neck-and-neck with a 3700X in most workloads, sometimes a little slower or faster.

It's $83 brand new with a cooler and a warranty in retail box.

The 5600 is only $120. If you're ever going to upgrade from Zen 2 to Zen 3, the money spent on Zen 2 is probably wasted as the resale value won't be a whole lot by the time you sell (except maybe if you sprung for a 3950X). Just throwing it out there that if you're going to eventually buy two CPUs, doubling your CPU budget now (and planning to not upgrade later) gets you well into the 5800X or close to the 5700X3D price range. $.02.

Knightmare · Jun 18, 2024

I went ahead and bought the X570 Steel Legend WiFi.

Unfortunately, I also had to buy a new phone last week, as my existing one (which according to the manufacturer's page was a 4G model) stopped working due to the end of 2G service. I'll have to put off purchasing the CPU, HSF, and RAM for at least a couple months.

I looked at the Thermalright PA120, and while it has a great price-to-performance ratio, I don't like that it overhangs the RAM slots, and would likely make it harder to reach the retention tab on the Steel Legend's top X16 slot.

Would the Thermalright Assassin X120 be adequate for cooling 95W CPUs such as the 3600X and 3700X?

I'm also looking at the be quiet! Pure Rock 2 and the DeepCool AK500. I assume either of these would be enough for the "105W" 3800X.

steelghost · Jun 19, 2024

Bear in mind that the AM4 platform has a user configurable power limit, so you can limit the thermal output to suit the cooler, within reason.

continuum · Jun 19, 2024

Knightmare said:
I looked at the Thermalright PA120, and while it has a great price-to-performance ratio, I don't like that it overhangs the RAM slots, and would likely make it harder to reach the retention tab on the Steel Legend's top X16 slot.

Would the Thermalright Assassin X120 be adequate for cooling 95W CPUs such as the 3600X and 3700X?

Going to guess it will somewhat limit the turbo clocks, it's only a 4 heatpipe design and an awfully small fin stack.

The Pure Rock 2 will probably have similar issues, I speak from personal experience with it albeit not on the processor you are looking at. The AK500 looks like a heftier fin stack but I know less about it. Have you looked up reviews?

DeepCool AK500 Review: Big Air, Incredible Value

Strong, Silent Performance, with full DRAM compatibility that pairs well with Alder Lake CPUs

www.tomshardware.com

DeepCool AK500 Review

DeepCool's AK500 slots in between the AK620 and the AK400, proving to be a near-perfect balance between the two. It delivers solid performance, a clean visual aesthetic, and, best of all, offers exceptional performance per dollar. Making it a solid contender in the mid-range air cooler market.

www.techpowerup.com

From the TPU link it looks like the AK500 slightly outperforms the Pure Rock 2 on their AMD testbed.

Recommend me a Socket AM4 mobo (plus advice on RAM compatibility)

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