Suggestions wanted: full size case, AIO, PSU

pauli · Sep 9, 2023

I'm looking to build a new machine, starting with a new case. My tastes are simple: black or gray, no glass, no RGB, rectangular but preferably not the monolith from 2001, big enough for an ATX motherboard, a full size video card, and half a dozen drives (SSD and HDD). For convenience, I'd prefer a full tower.

I've been looking at this thing: Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2 Full Tower Possibly overkill, possibly just the right size. It even has room for an ITX system inside, like a computer kangaroo. Reviews generally seem to indicate it's fine for the money, but I'm not seeing what else is an obvious step up. Open to ideas.

I am currently planning to go with https://www.microcenter.com/product...kill-32gb-ddr5-6000-kit,-computer-build-combo for MB/CPU/RAM. I'm also looking for an AIO cooler; I'm not planning on particularly aggressive overclocking, but I have no idea what sort of radiator this calls for, or who has a good reputation in this space right now.

Of course, I also need a PSU to drive everything. No idea what's what in that department anymore. I'm going to be reusing my 3060Ti, and upgrade that in the next year or two - whatever card I get will probably not need less wattage.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

continuum · Sep 9, 2023

Did you have any preferences on exactly how big or small? The Enthoo Pro 2 is definitely on the larger side of things. As far as "step up" did you have any specific needs there? Enthoo Pro 2 being so big can take pretty big radiators, but cooling performance of the case itself may not be the best-- it's a somewhat older design, and if memory serves it's still decent but not anywhere near best in class.

Fractal Design Meshify 2 is another common example, it too is not small-- but it's a decent bit smaller than the Enthoo Pro 2.

Enthoo Pro 2:
Dimension. 240 mm x 580 mm x 560 mm (W x H x D) 9.5 in x 22.8 in x 22.0 in

Meshify 2:

Case dimensions (LxWxH)
542 x 240 x 474 mm
Case dimensions w/o feet/protrusions/screws
541 x 240 x 454 mm

Techpowerup has a ton of cases tested, one example:

Corsair iCUE 4000D RGB Airflow Review

With the launch of the AF120 Elite RGB fans, Corsair took the opportunity to relaunch the 5000D and 4000D cases as iCUE editions featuring the new cooling units. We take a walk down memory lane and see how the enclosure and its thermals compete, after two years, with the new fans in the mix.

www.techpowerup.com

Corsair 4000D Airflow looks good, I think the 5000D Airflow isn't too much worse; Phanteks G500A Performance looks excellent too, maybe poke around there?

3060 Ti is pretty modest, I'd say with an i7-13700K that 650W is plenty, but agreed, 750W or even 850W might make more sense should you upgrade.

Still a good list I believe for PSU output quality, but doesn't say anything as to noise:

PSU Tier List rev. 16.1A

PSU Tier List rev. 16.1 Last Update: 03-10-2020 Legend : Green - small form-factor (gold and blue colors are disregarded due to scarcity of SFX PSUs) Gold - best units in the tier (includes requirements for blue color in tier A) Blue - quiet operation under moderate load (see details in the sprea...

linustechtips.com

Would have to dig a bit deeper for more comprehensive PSU overviews but I believe Tom's Hardware and Techpowerup and some others are still good. Cheapest 850W 80PLUS Gold unit I see at Newegg that reviews favorably at Tom's Hardware is the Cooler Master MWE 850 V2 for $96 currently. For more money still tons of good choices you may find more familiar (Seasonic Prime, Corsair HX, Corsair AX...).

pauli · Sep 10, 2023

continuum said:
Did you have any preferences on exactly how big or small?

I have preferences on how convenient it is to work in. I have no particular size limitations or constraints. 2'x2'x10" doesn't seem terribly large in a finished basement.

As far as "step up" did you have any specific needs there? Enthoo Pro 2 being so big can take pretty big radiators, but cooling performance of the case itself may not be the best-- it's a somewhat older design, and if memory serves it's still decent but not anywhere near best in class.

Nothing specific, but I did see some reviews mentioning the amount of plastic, and that it seemed a bit spartan.

Fractal Design Meshify 2 is another common example, it too is not small-- but it's a decent bit smaller than the Enthoo Pro 2.

Definitely an option, but it looks pretty cramped inside.

Techpowerup has a ton of cases tested, one example:

Corsair iCUE 4000D RGB Airflow Review

With the launch of the AF120 Elite RGB fans, Corsair took the opportunity to relaunch the 5000D and 4000D cases as iCUE editions featuring the new cooling units. We take a walk down memory lane and see how the enclosure and its thermals compete, after two years, with the new fans in the mix.

www.techpowerup.com

Corsair 4000D Airflow looks good, I think the 5000D Airflow isn't too much worse; Phanteks G500A Performance looks excellent too, maybe poke around there?

The problem with Corsair is that the only thing they make without a window is limited to a 240mm radiator, and is otherwise a throwback design. Phanteks G500A - also stuck with a window I don't want.

3060 Ti is pretty modest, I'd say with an i7-13700K that 650W is plenty, but agreed, 750W or even 850W might make more sense should you upgrade.

Still a good list I believe for PSU output quality, but doesn't say anything as to noise:

PSU Tier List rev. 16.1A

PSU Tier List rev. 16.1 Last Update: 03-10-2020 Legend : Green - small form-factor (gold and blue colors are disregarded due to scarcity of SFX PSUs) Gold - best units in the tier (includes requirements for blue color in tier A) Blue - quiet operation under moderate load (see details in the sprea...

linustechtips.com

Would have to dig a bit deeper for more comprehensive PSU overviews but I believe Tom's Hardware and Techpowerup and some others are still good. Cheapest 850W 80PLUS Gold unit I see at Newegg that reviews favorably at Tom's Hardware is the Cooler Master MWE 850 V2 for $96 currently. For more money still tons of good choices you may find more familiar (Seasonic Prime, Corsair HX, Corsair AX...).

Thanks for that link. Nothing super surprising, it looks like the PSU market has made steady improvements in expected directions.

continuum · Sep 10, 2023

Ah. You did not say window preferences (or lack thereof in this case), I think that does restrict things.

I’ve thrown some other brands out there and sounds like you’ve looked at a few of their lineups… Fractal Design Meshify 2 XL is about the only other one that specifically comes to mind, although I know there’s plenty of others not coming to mind at the moment. Is the Fractal Design North too small? It may be…what about the Fractal Design Torrent? Be Quiet has some choices too but I’d have to read reviews again to see what’s good.

(I’m literally using Newegg’s power search as I write this…)

And for some reason I thought the 5000D Airflow and Meshify 2 XL both had a non-window version but I think I’m mis-remembering. :/ (Define 7 XL has a solid side panel option but the solid front is not ideal for airflow…)

pauli · Sep 10, 2023

I did say no glass, but that was probably not spelled out as well as it might be.

Most of the Fractal stuff looks a bit short on parking for HDDs and SSDs. Should I consolidate all my old data? Yes. Have I done so? No.

For CPU cooling, I'm looking at the CORSAIR CW-9060060-WW iCUE H150i RGB ELITE Liquid CPU Cooler, mostly because the RGB is turned off in the pictures and my current Corsair H100i Pro seems fine. As far as I can tell, any AIO should be quiet enough for me to not care, and the reviews I've looked at were nearly useless when it came to what's well made and what's not, or even if a 360mm setup is worth it for mild overclocking on a 13700k.

continuum · Sep 10, 2023

Derp I was thinking window when I scanned your post a second time, totally missed glass. Sorry about that!

Techpowerup.com has some good AIO reviews that might show some alternatives that are worth considering but the H150i ELITE should be fine, if not near the top. Although TPU testbed isn't Alder Lake or Raptor Lake so maybe find better reviews than what I'm thinking of...

I haven't kept overclocked any of my personal daily drivers in 3 years, maybe played with it during initial build, the factory turbo boosts now are that good.

steelghost · Sep 12, 2023

BeQuiet! Silent Base 802 might be worth a look. Lots of reviews about, seems fairly universally well regarded. It's not cheap, but seems well engineered. Depending on how your mix of storage devices is split between 2.5" and 3.5" devices, you may or may not need to order additional drive cages etc with it.

BeQuiet also do their own line of AIO coolers that don't appear to just be re-badges of someone else's stock designs. Heck, they also have their own line of PSUs but I'm not sure who the OEM(s) is (are).

continuum · Sep 12, 2023

The Be Quiet! Silent Loop 2 AIO Cooler Review: Quiet and Unassuming

www.anandtech.com

Be Quiet Silent Loop 2 lives up to it's name, very low noise.

The Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 13 1300W ATX 3.0 PSU Review: Flagship Quality, Flagship Price

www.anandtech.com

Looks like CWT for at least one of their power supplies.

be quiet! Pure Power 11 FM 850 W Review

The be quiet! Pure Power 11 FM 850 W is a good PSU, but the competition is tough. Some changes are required to increase performance and more effectively meet the competition from Corsair, EVGA, ASUS, and Seasonic. A price drop would also help, especially in the US.

www.techpowerup.com

HEC for this more reasonably sized one.

Obsti · Sep 13, 2023

I'll second the be quiet recommendations, especially the Silent Base 802 as case. The possible fan configurations are mouthwatering. Their AIOs (just like their PSUs) benefit from their own line of fans, which are fantastic. For their PSUs, check their data sheets / manuals to see which modular cables exactly are provided since those differ between product lines and power levels IIRC.

The only downside of the SB 802 is that it is a bit hard to handle since it lacks nooks and crannies on the front for your fingers to catch a hold of unless you remove the front panel which is easy and the proper way and there has to be a catch for supplying that much dust-guarded space for fans. I accidently destroyed the bottom dust mesh when I lifted my 801 for the first time when gripping there the way I lifted my previous tower. It got replaced by the awesome be quiet support, as usual. The 802 is a 801 with updated front panel and more modular covers, but retains the overall geometry and has many interchangeable parts.

So, just to be sure not to have any more mishaps, I placed the case on an adjustable trolley like this one. The need to lift it for modifications like SSD/HDD changes and re-wiring has been reduced to zero due to this.

Derp Derpus · Sep 13, 2023

As far as AIO's go I won't buy anything other than an Arctic Liquid Freezer II these days. I have their entire non-RGB lineup from 240 to 420 (With several of some models) and they can't be beat for performance or price. Look on Ebay for their factory page B-stock offerings.

Heavily overclocked 12th & 13th gen Intel CPU's will benefit from aftermarket fans under heavy loads but the stock Arctic fans are decent for everyday casual usage.

continuum · Sep 15, 2023

I used to swear by Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer II's myself, but the Lian Li Galahad II looks good too (if not even better), and the Deepcool LT720 might be even better. The Corsair H150i Elite LCD XT and EK-AIO Elite are good too, at least in the reviewed sizes in the reviews I'm linking at Techpowerup-- so at the very least I would be open to others.

I do wish Techpowerup reviewed the Liquid Freezer II in other sizes.

All that said the b-stock pricing as pointed out by @Derp Derpus is crazy good and I would definitely go for that if value is key.

Edit: broken url

malor · Sep 18, 2023

pauli said:
I did say no glass, but that was probably not spelled out as well as it might be.

Most of the Fractal stuff looks a bit short on parking for HDDs and SSDs. Should I consolidate all my old data? Yes. Have I done so? No.

For CPU cooling, I'm looking at the CORSAIR CW-9060060-WW iCUE H150i RGB ELITE Liquid CPU Cooler, mostly because the RGB is turned off in the pictures and my current Corsair H100i Pro seems fine. As far as I can tell, any AIO should be quiet enough for me to not care, and the reviews I've looked at were nearly useless when it came to what's well made and what's not, or even if a 360mm setup is worth it for mild overclocking on a 13700k.

Just as a thought: what I usually do when I replace my desktop is to move the old motherboard into my NAS server, and keep most of my bulk storage there. I'm presently using zero drive bays on my desktop. I use two M.2 drives (one for Windows, one for Linux), and have the vast majority of data on the NAS. A lot of the reason to even need a big tower at my desk is gone.

Gigabit networking is generally fine for driving spinning rust. If you want to put SSDs in your NAS, you can upgrade to 10GbE pretty cheap by buying used Brocade switches and optical network cards. (you can probably do three stations for $275ish; $125 for a used Brocade switch with four SFP+ ports, three $40 used Mellanox SFP+ cards, six Brocade FC-type short range optical transceivers at $8 each, and three runs of fiber optic cable, long enough to reach from each workstation to the switch. (make sure to get FC duplex multimode cables, I spent more than I should have, buying the wrong stuff.) I can now pull data off my NAS RAID at 600 megabytes/second or thereabouts; the limit is the gang of spinning drives, instead of the cable.

It was, however, really okay on gigabit. Drive latency is bad on rust no matter what, and all the bandwidth in the world doesn't change that. You can totally skip the 10GbE upgrade and not lose that much. Seeks take just as long, either way.

Abstracting your storage onto the network can be pretty nice. It can be as reliable as you want it to be, and if the server is noisy, you can easily put it in a different room. Except when I plug in that USB DVD drive I was talking about in the other thread, the only moving parts in my current desktop are the Noctua fans and the AIO pump. This is a pretty pleasant overall shift, I gotta say.

I still have a large tower, but it's really surplus to my actual needs at this point. I wouldn't mind replacing it, because I really don't like it (Cooler Master SL600M), but one nice feature is that it's effectively silent, no matter what I'm doing with it. That's getting harder to do with modern GPUs and CPUs running so hot. Pulling all the spinnies out definitely helps.

Suggestions wanted: full size case, AIO, PSU

Ars Legatus Legionis

Ars Legatus Legionis

Ars Legatus Legionis

Ars Legatus Legionis

Ars Legatus Legionis

Ars Legatus Legionis

Ars Praefectus

Ars Legatus Legionis

Ars Centurion

Ars Centurion

Ars Legatus Legionis

Ars Legatus Legionis