USB surround card with Dolby Digital 5.1 via optical

hestermofet

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I'm looking for a device to add 5.1 surround to my PC. The AMD APU doesn't support 5.1 over HDMI for whatever reason, only stereo, or I'd use my normal HDMI optical audio extractor as usual.

I have a Startech USB sound card, but again, optical output is only 2.0.

I need optical for it to work with my surround decoder or receiver. :/
 

malor

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The AMD APU doesn't support 5.1 over HDMI for whatever reason, only stereo
That might be a monitor setting. I don't have any experience with AMD driving HDMI, but my NVidia card will do pretty much any sound configuration that HDMI supports, so I would presume AMD would also.

However, when I hooked up this monitor and tried to drive my receiver via eARC, I could only get stereo at first. Turned out the LG C2 needed to have eARC mode enabled. After that, everything worked fine. (except DTS passthrough, which isn't supported, only Dolby formats. The C3 will pass DTS fine, however.)

An optical connection can send only stereo at full bitrate, but it will send compressed 5.1 formats. If you can find one, the old ASUS Xonar cards could do either live Dolby Digital or DTS compression, so you could drive a virtual 5.1 soundcard over an optical link. However, the live compression sounded like absolute shit. Both formats can sound amazing, but quality compression is very high latency. In the low latency, live-link mode that ASUS used, it sounded horrible.

That's likely to be true of any sound card. Both formats need, AFAIK, a several-second window of audio to achieve good compression. Running in low latency mode sounds terrible.

What you probably actually need is a receiver that supports HDMI, plus a sound card that supports HDMI properly. I'm not sure what's up with the stereo-only from your AMD card. That doesn't sound right at all.

Alternatively, you can use a receiver that takes multichannel analog input, and then drive it with your multichannel motherboard outs. This can be a pretty cheap solution if you buy used, because receivers that support multichannel RCA inputs are usually very old. In new receivers, that's usually an astonishingly expensive feature these days, because they limit it to the multi-thousand-dollar units.
 

richleader

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That might be a monitor setting. I don't have any experience with AMD driving HDMI, but my NVidia card will do pretty much any sound configuration that HDMI supports, so I would presume AMD would also.

Was doing 7.1 on an AMD 6970 card over HDMI like over 10 years ago just fine...

OP needs to double check the basics before going into the weeds.

I'd use my normal HDMI optical audio extractor as usual.

AFAIK, optical audio extractors are only for lossy prepackaged and anyone who says otherwise (and isn't selling an $800+ sound processing unit) is lying? So your extractor would be useless in this case. You're trying to do something that's impossible. DVD/bluray player software on your computer will be able to offer up surround sound since the disc has a prepackaged antique soundtrack for that purpose. Nothing else will and your extractor won't help. Stick to stereo (perhaps with DPL2 or some faux-3d shaping that your receiver provides) or do the upgrades that everyone here is suggesting!

However, the live compression sounded like absolute shit.

Was worth it at the time (even with bad compression my real sound system was better than computer speakers, imho) but the delay also sucked, especially when your CRT displays were instantaneous back then.
 
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hestermofet

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Thank you everyone, I can always count on Ars to provide amazing info on stuff I know little about. I'm really not an audio person. Just to give context, I'm mostly looking for surround sound for watching Netlix/Prime Video, and sometimes YouTube. Occasionally, I'd play a PC game, but that doesn't sound like a thing any more. Keep in mind, the last time I had a nice sound system connected to my PC, I was using a Hercules Fortissimo. lol. It supported Creative EAX and Aureal A3D, so that was pretty awesome.

Maybe a motherboard thing? You haven't mentioned what you are using, so not much to go on.
Good point. Asrock DeskMini A300 with a Ryzen 5 3400G. This is the lowest end motherboard I've used in recent years, with a very budget AMD A300 chipset. I'm used to using AMD X-series chipsets with a lot more features. Sadly, I couldn't afford a DeskMini X300 which would have opened a lot more options for CPUs, but I did really want a compact system I could add my own HDDs and RAM to. It has three display outputs, two bays for 2.5" and two m.2 slots, so this system meets a lot of my other needs for an ultra compact system. This uses a motherboard form factor that's apparently called STX, so it's not a weird non-standard thing. One of the downfalls of this motherboard however is that it doesn't have a simple optical out, or the five surround jacks you get with a standard mATX/ITX motherboard. That type of setup has worked fine for me in the past.

Alternatively, you can use a receiver that takes multichannel analog input, and then drive it with your multichannel motherboard outs. This can be a pretty cheap solution if you buy used, because receivers that support multichannel RCA inputs are usually very old. In new receivers, that's usually an astonishingly expensive feature these days, because they limit it to the multi-thousand-dollar units.
Stick to stereo (perhaps with DPL2 or some faux-3d shaping that your receiver provides) or do the upgrades that everyone here is suggesting!
Unfortunately, no can do. I have effectively no budget. A modern receiver seems to be in the hundreds, if not thousands of dollars which just doesn't seem worth it. The receiver I'm using was virtually free, and given the age, that explains how cheap it was. It's a Yamaha RX-V793. It's so old that even though it supports DD 5.1, the user manual says basically while you can enjoy Dolby Pro Logic right now with 4.0 channels, some day soon, 5.1 content will hit the market and you can enjoy full 5.1 sound. 🤯 This is one of those early adopter devices that was so bleeding edge, it supported technology that wasn't really on the market yet. Like those early 720p HD CRT screens from before even DVD hit the market, and there was literally zero HD content to play. The more expensive parts of my system are two pairs of Edifier active monitors for fronts and surrounds (yeah, it's weird, this receiver supports line level outputs so you can connect normal powered computer speakers to it. Which is a feature I oddly need. lol), and parts of a Logitech PC surround sound system that I cannibalized for center and subwoofer. May not be the best things on the market, but the price was effective for what you get.

Was doing 7.1 on an AMD 6970 card over HDMI like over 10 years ago just fine...

OP needs to double check the basics before going into the weeds.
Probably. I didn't find something in the monitor that seems to fix it. It's an Asus VP28U monitor.
AFAIK, optical audio extractors are only for lossy prepackaged and anyone who says otherwise (and isn't selling an $800+ sound processing unit) is lying? So your extractor would be useless in this case. You're trying to do something that's impossible.
I dunno, seems to work with my PS5 and Series S. Game audio seems to be positional as expected. I also tried Fraunhofer's surround sound test on the Xbox's web browser, and signal came out of the expected speakers. But that's prerecorded content.

Maybe it won't work for PC? I feel like maybe PS5 and Xbox use licensed Dolby/DTS encoding hardware that PCs usually wouldn't have.
DVD/bluray player software on your computer will be able to offer up surround sound since the disc has a prepackaged antique soundtrack for that purpose. Nothing else will and your extractor won't help.
Surround sound for prerecorded content would mostly be ok, if I can't get surround for games.
 
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malor

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Surround sound for prerecorded content would mostly be ok, if I can't get surround for games.
Almost any sound card that has an optical out should do that much... stereo for games, and Dolby Digital or DTS for premade content, whether from DVDs, MKV/MP4, or streaming. You wouldn't be able to do the higher-end lossless formats, though, just the old original DD and DTS.
 

Kaiser Sosei

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I took a quick look at the manual for the Asrock DeskMini A300 and the actual motherboard appears to be PDF of A300M-STX Manual . It's a fairly stripped down board and it doesn't look like there are any internal sound headers for optical/coax. There are also no PCI slots and the only expansion slot is for another M2 drive. This board was built to a price point. There is very little demand anymore for optical/coax audio with almost everything now doing HDMI. There was a headphone header but I don't think that will help.

Your choices seem to be either a gadget like linked in the OP or get a new receiver that can handle HDMI. If you aren't opposed to second hand, you can pick up a new enough receiver for your needs fairly cheap at thrift stores. It may not have the remote, and testing before hand is needed, but I've paid $10-15 for a receiver.
 
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malor

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I got this Denon 1909 used for $100, but it doesn't support eARC, and can't extract sound from anything above 1080p; it can pass 4K through, but can't play the sound. So I'm using a $50 eARC->HDMI adapter. I connect the 3070 to the LG C2, and then to the adapter, and then to the receiver. It works well, but not with the most recent 3070 audio drivers. I have to stay on the ones that ship with Win10, or my sound config is constantly reset back to stereo from 5.1.

It sounds like Hester is kind of trapped in low-budget hell, where all the components are inadequate and need replacement.
 

Paladin

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The Yamaha RX-V793 has nothing but SPDIF inputs for multi-channel, not even multi-channel analog input so basically you are stuck with PCM stereo or old school DTS/Dolby Digital AC3 input. That means multi channel only from pre-recorded media that has those audio tracks. DVDs and Bluerays, etc. Games will not have that kind of thing unless they claim the 'fake' dolby pro logic surround (interpolated surround).

Virtually any USB sound device that mentions 5.1 or 7.1 output should do the job if it has an optical or coax SPDIF output. Getting one with a name brand like Creative or something might at least promise some ongoing driver support but even that is a roll of the dice. You can go for anything around $20 and consider it disposable if it ever stops working because of a software problem. Fortunately most media players can easily use almost anything for audio output and DD/DTS output support is pretty easy.
 
Apologies everyone, I made a bunch of posts across several forums recently asking questions, but never followed up. Super annoying, but I'm back to respond to all your lovely replies!
Virtually any USB sound device that mentions 5.1 or 7.1 output should do the job if it has an optical or coax SPDIF output.
You'd think, right? But I have two different USB 5.1 sound cards with coax and optical, and neither support more than 2.1 via the S/PDIF ports. The 5.1 is done via 3 (or 4) stereo minijacks. It's so weird that this is not a universal feature.

The Yamaha RX-V793 has nothing but SPDIF inputs for multi-channel, not even multi-channel analog input so basically you are stuck with PCM stereo or old school DTS/Dolby Digital AC3 input. That means multi channel only from pre-recorded media that has those audio tracks. DVDs and Bluerays, etc. Games will not have that kind of thing unless they claim the 'fake' dolby pro logic surround (interpolated surround).
I believe you for PC gaming, it's just weird because every single console since the OG Xbox/PS2 that has had an optical audio port including the PS5 supports Dolby Digital 5.1 and often DTS* using optical for gaming content. It's weird how this is not something you see in PC gaming. 🤷‍♂️ But I guess it makes sense, PC OEMs are not going to pay a license to Dolby or DTS, MS never did for Windows I guess, so that means your sound card manufacturer will.... and if that's who we're relying on for the license fee, it's not enough of an install base to make it worthwhile for game developers. But Sony and MS will pay for it for their console hardware, so every console game gets it for free.

*sometimes extra purchase necessary to add a license for DTS
 
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It sounds like Hester is kind of trapped in low-budget hell, where all the components are inadequate and need replacement.
I think the only real option is save up to get a modern receiver at some point that supports eARC. It's been out for a long time at this point, so if I keep my eyes peeled, I'm sure something suitable will turn on for cheap at a thrift store or Facebook Marketplace.
 

Paladin

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Apologies everyone, I made a bunch of posts across several forums recently asking questions, but never followed up. Super annoying, but I'm back to respond to all your lovely replies!

You'd think, right? But I have two different USB 5.1 sound cards with coax and optical, and neither support more than 2.1 via the S/PDIF ports. The 5.1 is done via 3 (or 4) stereo minijacks. It's so weird that this is not a universal feature.

'Support' is a very loose term, of course. Every bit of hardware will have various implementations of features and 'veracity' in their marketing vs. real features a user can implement. I was basically talking about what you can buy new now. I can't remember the last time I saw a USB DAC style device with analog 5.1 outputs. Not to say that they don't exist but it has been a long while since I saw one for sale as new.

But... even assuming you found one, the ability to actually output 5.1 discrete audio is based on the media being played, the software doing the playback and the driver implementation and Windows configuration.

Ideally, you want to just pass through the original multichannel audio to an external device that will decode and amplify it for speakers. That's the receiver you mention. It can be eARC or just HDMI, depending on how you hook things up. Decent new receivers will handle 4k to 8k video with uncompressed multichannel audio just fine via HDMI 2.1 (but check the reviews to be sure). 1080P with multichannel audio is super easy. No eARC required. But if you prefer the eARC method, it should be doable as well.

I believe you for PC gaming, it's just weird because every single console since the OG Xbox/PS2 that has had an optical audio port including the PS5 supports Dolby Digital 5.1 and often DTS* using optical for gaming content. It's weird how this is not something you see in PC gaming. 🤷‍♂️ But I guess it makes sense, PC OEMs are not going to pay a license to Dolby or DTS, MS never did for Windows I guess, so that means your sound card manufacturer will.... and if that's who we're relying on for the license fee, it's not enough of an install base to make it worthwhile for game developers. But Sony and MS will pay for it for their console hardware, so every console game gets it for free.

*sometimes extra purchase necessary to add a license for DTS
Yup, it is very rare to see any 'on device' multichannel audio support other than basic passthrough for multichannel recordings (DVD and Blueray etc.) that output via HDMI. No one bothers with SPDIF anymore because it could only handle the lossy, compressed audio for Dolby Digital and DTS basic surround recordings. There were a tiny handful of devices that supported Dolby Digital Live! which was basically discrete audio encoding that happened live on the computer for positional multichannel audio that could be output via 5.1 analog jacks or SPDIF.

It was... just ok. It worked but the positional part was never all that great. Kind of the same for XBox and PS3/4 etc. They support multichannel positional audio but the actual implementation of the directional audio depends on the game (or the movie/TV show in that case) so the quality of experience varies a lot.

The real deal was back in the late 90s. Aureal A3D had, at the end of development, up to 60 positional computed reflections based on in game geometry etc. Then Creative bought them out (after some financial issues) and buried them so they could continue pretending Soundblaster EAX was cool and not actually develop any good products. :cry: