Do you folk like OLED for gaming? Or regular LCD tech?

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jarablue

jarablue

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  • #1
    I've used TN, VA and IPS in the past. Worked fine. But ever since moving to OLED, the color and blacks and the vibrancy of HDR in Win 11 and gaming is really good.

    It's seems that I won't ever go back to using either of the old LCD tech at this point. I think I am OLED from now.

    I have an LG C2 that does the job admirably. Looking at those big monitors with high refresh rates when they come out though. At 120hertz, I don't think I'll upgrade to anything for awhile unless like 300+ refresh rate comes out.

    What do you guys think since OLED hit the market? Do you like it? Or are you happy with older LCD tech?

    Have a good day! :)
     
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    ant1pathy

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  • #3
    rodalpho said:
    OLED is much better for gaming and media but I'm still uncomfortable with it on computer monitors due to burn-in anxiety.
    Click to expand...
    Same, but I am concerned about gaming as well, with static UI elements. I know some games have OLED mitigation modes that will add some translucency and "jiggle" pixels around to help ameliorate, but I wouldn't trust that on my nice new "10-year" tv. I keep a big cheaper LCD panel for gaming and reserve the OLED for movies and tv.
     
    Paladin

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  • #5
    Most/all OLEDs have built in features for avoiding and even fixing image retention and the panels are much less prone to it than they used to be. Basically if you can afford to buy one just to game on (or primarily to game on), you should not have to worry that it will be useless after a year of gaming unless you have a habit of just pausing your game and leaving it on for hours at a time. If you are buying one for productivity work, make sure to make the windows task bar automatically minimize and rotate your wallpaper every hour or so and it should be fine.

    If you do have a habit of playing the same game for hours on end, buying an OLED might be a good option because it might nudge you to take a break and go for a walk or some other activity for a few minutes every couple of hours, even if it probably is not strictly necessary.
     
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    w00key

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  • #6
    Burn in risk is also based on brightness, or maybe % of max brightness of a subpixel. New modern emitters with like 1500+ cd/m2 peak brightness have much less issues than older ones that you tend to run at maximum power, my poor C9 is at 90/100 + bright room preset during the day.

    At Rtings, a new G4 gets +50% brightness on their SDR Real Scene test and +110% on SDR 100% window sustained. Crazy how much things improved in 5 years. I'm eyeing for an upgrade when the discounts for the new model start, usually around September, the 65" G4 is 3300 and the G3 is 2k now.


    Huh speaking of the devil, just checked again and it is at 2900. That's a quick price drop... Last year was 2500 @ sep, 2300 @ oct.
     
    Kyuu

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  • #7
    I use OLED on anything and everything: phone, TV (used for gaming), laptop screen (also used for gaming), and Switch OLED (obviously used for gaming). My first OLED TV, an older LG model, did eventually end up with some burn-in problems. That was largely down to, one, it being an older model with less effective mitigations, and two, my wife and (very young at the time) daughter were not good about avoiding leaving static images on the screen. It wasn't the gaming that caused an issue.

    Beyond that, I've had zero issues with any of my OLED screens, and would never willingly go back to IPS, VA, or (god-forbid) TN panels.
     
    Paladin

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  • #10
    Indulging that anxiety by letting it determine your choices only strengthens it. If anything, you should use it as a sign that you should buy one just to help master yourself. :D

    Seriously though, it's fine. The minor change of setting the task bar to automatically lower is basically nothing. Having no desktop icons is a joy for most people (they're behind windows and largely useless most of the time) and changing wallpapers is built right into windows now so it's no trouble at all.

    But all of those are mostly not really necessary. The taskbar is the only one I would really consider a bit important. The screen's built in features will help avoid the bulk of image retention issues without your help.

    It's really fine to just use it. By the time any kind of retention issues might really become a problem, it is likely to be time for an upgrade anyway.
     
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    BO(V)BZ

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  • #11
    I have a 55" C1 that I use for my PC. I work from home two days a week and generally use my PC for a couple hours a day non-gaming and I've made no special arrangements to prevent burn-in - windows stay in the same spot, taskbar isn't hidden. I do have the screensaver turn on after 5 minutes, but that's it. I haven't seen any hints of burn-in so far after 2 years, for what that's worth. Brightness is kept about medium.
     
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    Betelgeuse

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  • #12
    Been using OLEDs since 2020, first a 48" LG CX and now dual AW3225QFs. Could not go back to a regular LCD, the blacks and overall response time and clarity is unmatched. In terms of overall motion clarity, nothing compares except maybe old school CRTs which have many other drawbacks. Honestly, my AW monitors are the best I have ever used for work and/or play.
     
    steelghost

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  • #13
    I have OLED on my phone and we have an OLED Switch here as well. I absolutely do like the advantages vs "normal" LCDs, but not enough to justify paying ££££ for one.

    When I can get a 27" 1440p or 32" 4k monitor for <£500, that's about the time I'd get interested. Until then it's in the "can't thoil t'brass"* category.

    (*Yorkshire dialect - meaning that I "can't bear the money"; I could afford it, but I can't justify spending it)
     
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    IceStorm

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  • #15
    jarablue said:
    It's seems that I won't ever go back to using either of the old LCD tech at this point. I think I am OLED from now.
    Click to expand...
    And you'll be replacing your screens every five years or so (if not more often). LTT and Level1 Techs both tried out OLEDs as PC displays. It did not go well.

    What do you guys think since OLED hit the market? Do you like it? Or are you happy with older LCD tech?
    Click to expand...
    My main displays are on ~16hrs a day, every day. The center display is from 2014 (10yrs old), while my flanking displays are from 2009 (15yrs old) and 2007 (17 yrs old). OLED will never last this long under these conditions.

    If your use case is light duty, like the occasional game on a Steam Deck or Switch OLED, or you replace the display every few years, like a phone, then OLED is fine. If you want something you can buy and forget about for 10-15yrs, OLED will never achieve that.
     
    rodalpho

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  • #16
    Paladin said:
    It's really fine to just use it. By the time any kind of retention issues might really become a problem, it is likely to be time for an upgrade anyway.
    Click to expand...
    I don't know that I agree with that, monitors last a really long time. Unless you're saying burnin won't happen in say 10 years, but based on a LTT video 2 years back, it absolutely was still happening with the 2020 models. The 2021 and later EVO displays are probably less susceptible though.
     
    Paladin

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  • #17
    rodalpho said:
    I don't know that I agree with that, monitors last a really long time. Unless you're saying burnin won't happen in say 10 years, but based on a LTT video 2 years back, it absolutely was still happening with the 2020 models. The 2021 and later EVO displays are probably less susceptible though.
    Click to expand...
    Well, yeah, it's 2024 now. ;) Hopefully people are talking about buying a recent model, not a 3 year pre-owned one. :D

    If we're talking used then that is a different thing.

    But seriously look at what IceStorm just posted. 16 hours a day.

    That's not normal. Not unless you are thinking of buying an OLED for some kind of lobby display screen or monitoring display that is on 24/7 or whatever. Heck, LCD will look like trash after a couple years of that level of use too, if you have static elements on the screen.

    For the average gamer usage, a quick google shows around 1 hour of use a day, and for TV it is around 4 hours a day. Even at that, combined, it is only 5 hours of use a day. Not even half of IceStorm's use. :biggreen:
    I would say that 'light' use is more like 2 hours a day at most. At that level, you probably don't even have to modify your habits at all to keep an OLED in good shape, as long as it is decent quality. For a gamer who gets in a couple hours a day and maybe 4 or so on weekend days, the minimal effort of turning on the wallpaper switcher feature and having the screen run its pixel cleaner function once a month or whatever is probably completely fine.

    The TVs actually have automated routines for image retention prevention and to keep everything working happily. You do have to let them run though. As you can see from rtings test, if you run the TV too much every day you can prevent it having a chance to run the maintenance it needs to do. https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/longevity-investigations-update-3-month

    LG seemed to do pretty well in their test but Sony had some problems on a couple of models, likely because it could not get a chance to run its screen maintenance jobs due to their aggressive usage model (20 hours of use a day).

    Assuming the TV/monitor will be used in anything approaching an 'average' usage pattern, it should be fine with minimal changes in habits required. If you feel you are on the outer edge of the bell curve on usage (more than 8-10 hours of display use per day), then yeah, LCD might still be better for you, though those have failures under heavy use as well. Basically, if you want your screen to go through that kind of heavy use, get something with a good warranty and then buy that extended warranty for a few more years coverage.
     
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  • #18
    Paladin said:
    Heck, LCD will look like trash after a couple years of that level of use too, if you have static elements on the screen.
    Click to expand...
    There is zero burn-in on my displays.

    The TVs actually have automated routines for image retention prevention and to keep everything working happily.
    Click to expand...
    All those routines are is wear-leveling. The tech is designed to compensate for degradation by making sure everything degrades evenly.

    Assuming the TV/monitor will be used in anything approaching an 'average' usage pattern
    Click to expand...
    If gaming is your primary entertainment medium, then I'd figure on ~28hrs a week (4hrs/day). Gaming supplants all forms of non-interactive entertainment for me.
     
    Paladin

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  • #19
    IceStorm said:
    There is zero burn-in on my displays.


    All those routines are is wear-leveling. The tech is designed to compensate for degradation by making sure everything degrades evenly.


    If gaming is your primary entertainment medium, then I'd figure on ~28hrs a week (4hrs/day). Gaming supplants all forms of non-interactive entertainment for me.
    Click to expand...
    That's all totally fine. You're obviously an outlier to some degree and from what you've posted in the past, I would assume your screens are probably very high quality models with good electronics and firmware that helps improve their chances to last a long time. LCD/LED screens have image retention issues just like OLED (meaning that they both have the potential for it, not that they experience it in the same ways or for the same reasons), though generally they have been around longer than OLED so the tech is very mature and has been optimized to minimize that kind of issue.

    I think 4 hours a day is probably less than average, if anything, so that's fine and I think it is still fine for OLED gaming use as long as you are willing to take basic steps to let your screen have a good lifespan. The manufacturer probably has some recommendations and built in features to optimize for it to function for a long time and the basic steps to minimize static on screen elements for hours of display use make it even better. Basically it is like anything you might spend a lot of money on: if you have tons of money and don't mind buying a new one soon, then go ahead and use it with no concern for its long term function. If you don't want to buy it again too soon, then pay attention to its usage recommendations and maintenance guides and it should last at least long enough to pass its warranty period. No need to give up on having something you want just because it might need a bit of care or attention to keeping it in good condition.
     
    Paladin

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  • #21
    I've definitely seen LCD image retention, sometimes it seems to be in the physical material of the screen itself where a static white element was always/frequently shown. It takes a lot of time though. I don't really consider it a problem though since, as you say, a lot of them tended to get more dim over time or the backlight would just fail or something else would go wrong after 5-7 years, maybe 10 at the outside. Basically once the 3 years warranty is done, you're just lucky if you get a display that stays perfect for more than another 5-7 years or so. The image retention I have seen is generally mild or a small annoyance, nothing I would scrap a screen for usually. The more annoying or serious issues are usually the backlight issues or the whole thing breaking down with green gibberish all over the screen and eventual signal sync issues or whatever.

    Basically, I think LCD/LED screens are excellent at preventing or minimizing image retention to the point where it is a non-issue for the average user. OLED is getting close to that stage but not quite, requiring the use of the automatic screen optimizer features and a basic awareness to not keep static images displayed on the screen, especially at high brightness. Basically it's not a big problem for most people and it is manageable for anyone who might worry about it.
     
    rodalpho

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  • #22
    I still haven't seen any actual proof of that. Anyone here using a 2021 or later OLED as a desktop monitor for primarily productivity work hours every day for 2+ years yet?

    For an example of what I'm looking for, I have seen proof that the Switch OLED screen will never burn-in within a remotely reasonable lifetime of the device from the YT channel Wulff Den. If I had a Switch OLED I would have zero anxiety.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaC5RbGAeVo
     
    Paladin

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  • #23
    rodalpho said:
    I still haven't seen any actual proof of that. Anyone here using a 2021 or later OLED as a desktop monitor for primarily productivity work hours every day for 2+ years yet?

    For an example of what I'm looking for, I have seen proof that the Switch OLED screen will never burn-in within a remotely reasonable lifetime of the device from the YT channel Wulff Den. If I had a Switch OLED I would have zero anxiety.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaC5RbGAeVo
    Click to expand...

    You're asking if anyone has a 2 or 3 year old screen that has 5 to 10 years of use on it already? :unsure:

    I guess you can sort of get that data. The link I shared before sort of aims to provide that kind of thing.

    www.rtings.com

    Longevity Burn-In Investigative Paths After 3 Months: QD-OLED vs. WOLED, LG vs. Sony, And More

    Our accelerated longevity test has been running for over three months, and we've already encountered some very interesting results. We've already had three partial TV failures and one complete failure, which wasn't expected this early in the test.
    www.rtings.com www.rtings.com

    They are basically abusing the screens as much as possible, within reason, to see how they fail under unusual usage scenarios so you can kind of count that as an accelerated aging test. It's not perfect but it is something. The gist of it so far is that all of the screens have various defects and failures or issues but certain ones have unexpected problems that are interesting. No brand stands out (LCD or OLED from any brand) as being the magic bullet for providing an excellent viewing experience for 10+ years, from what I have seen.

    Obviously, the technology itself has some potential drawbacks under very high usage scenarios but there is also the fact that companies have an unspoken motive to make their equipment 'only good enough' to compete and to reach a reasonable lifespan that exceeds their warranty coverage. If they make them so good that they last twice or three times the warranty period, they cannabalize their own repeat buyer market. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but they do have to think about selling a new model to a previous buyer at some point or they will simply have sold a device to everyone who wants or needs one and then they go out of business.

    I mean, from that switch OLED video, 3600 hours is 4 hours a day for about 3 years with the same image on the screen at full brightness (actually it's way worse because he never gave it a meaningful break at all). And he even says he could undo it fairly easily, probably with a video meant to exercise the screen as well. The technology in a switch OLED vs a TV or monitor is not really different (aside from specific features for certain screens, QD-OLED, etc.) so the general concept of image retention on modern OLED is a real thing but it basically is not something you need to worry about much more than the average decent quality LCD screen unless you are using your screens in an unusual way (extremely long amounts of use per day, max brightness all the time, static images being displayed a lot, etc.).
     
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  • #25
    rodalpho said:
    I still haven't seen any actual proof of that. Anyone here using a 2021 or later OLED as a desktop monitor for primarily productivity work hours every day for 2+ years yet?
    Click to expand...

    Yes, I've used a 48" LG CX since 2020 as a monitor, nearly every day until last month, for hours sometimes. Zero burn-in, and I've recently checked thoroughly as I was curious. The issue for me was dead pixel development around screen periphery, there's a new one every day or two with several dozen now. That TV has now been relegated to kid room use.
     
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  • #26
    Paladin said:
    You're asking if anyone has a 2 or 3 year old screen that has 5 to 10 years of use on it already? :unsure:
    Click to expand...
    No-- I said 2+ years. That's about how long Linus's OLED took to show substantial burn-in.

    December 22 is only a year and a half, but that's still encouraging. The CX is what LTT burned-in, so I know that one is susceptible to it. Dead pixels aren't wonderful either.
     
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  • #27
    That the CX has issues matches up with Rtings accelerated tests, https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/longevity-burn-in-test-updates-and-results


    Something drastically improved between CX and G1/2/3, C2 that I wouldn't be scared to use it as a monitor.

    Note that this is done with max brightness, at a lower setting it will take even longer for burn in to show up, especially on those super bright G3/4s.

    Also note that Sony and Samsung (used to?) have much worse image retention issues. So recommendations do not apply universally. Some LCDs too, this one surprised me, halving brightness and going pink/purple:

     
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  • #28
    rodalpho said:
    No-- I said 2+ years. That's about how long Linus's OLED took to show substantial burn-in.

    December 22 is only a year and a half, but that's still encouraging. The CX is what LTT burned-in, so I know that one is susceptible to it. Dead pixels aren't wonderful either.
    Click to expand...
    I assume you mean this video:
    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWrFEU_605g


    So he had the same issue that is common when you have the same static image displayed for many hours a day (he was splitting the screen into 4 quadrants using window snapping) and it left the ghost of the borders of the windows on the screen due to those areas being 'used' more heavily to display the constant bright borders of the windows. He then basically resolved it to his satisfaction by using the image cleaner function to 'wear down' the pixels across the board so they all display the same.

    I mean, that seems fine? A 3 year old screen (4+ year old technology basically, at this point) and it had a reasonable solution to an unusual usage pattern. You can simply just not display windows like that for many hours a day. Problem prevented. Or use the image cleaner function. Problem fixed.

    Yes, it means 'accelerating' the wear on the sub-pixels, if you want to think about it that way, but really you've already 'accelerated' the wear on the sub-pixels in specific areas by leaving bright, static images displayed on the screen for hours every day so... 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

    In any case, this is an issue that the panel makers have obviously been taking seriously because it got press and it has been a sticking point for some people who might otherwise purchase one.

    There is also the fact that it was a TV, not intended for use as a computer monitor, though it works pretty well that way. They've probably made the software more aggressive to watch for high, consistent output on certain pixels and improved the maintence functions to keep this kind of thing from happening as easily.

    As for dead pixels, that's basically a manufacturing lottery you play on any display purchase whether it is LED/LCD or OLED. It happens and warranty covers it for a reasonable period.

    I think basically it comes down to if you want an OLED, there is no real problem that should stop you from getting one. You just have to be aware that you can mess them up by using them in an unusual way (compared to manufacturer expectations) but a small amount of awareness can keep them working well for a long time.
     
    Semi On

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  • #29
    I've been using an OLED for gaming and office use, at least 10 hours per day, for several years now. I made a couple of basic adjustments like auto-hiding the task bar and removing any icons on the desktop. I've noticed zero persistent retention. The deep blacks in gaming would be hard to give up so I'd probably replace this screen with another OLED if/when I finally do notice burn in, barring massive improvements in LCD.

    The one annoyance to note is in office usage. Sometimes the auto-dimming function can kick in a bit too aggressively if the screen image hasn't changed sufficiently in a while. Highlighting a big block of text changes the image enough to turn up the brightness.
     
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    Kyuu

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  • #30
    Semi On said:
    The one annoyance to note is in office usage. Sometimes the auto-dimming function can kick in a bit too aggressively if the screen image hasn't changed sufficiently in a while. Highlighting a big block of text changes the image enough to turn up the brightness.
    Click to expand...
    This is the one annoyance even with TV/entertainment usage. My Samsung QD-OLED kicks in the auto-dimming function pretty aggressively. It's easy enough to disable by just bringing up the settings menu briefly. A trivial price to pay for the numerous advantages of OLED over other common display technologies, IMO.
     
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    Paladin

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  • #32
    ant1pathy said:
    This alone is enough to make me "nope" out of an OLED for computer usage :p.
    Click to expand...
    Because you hate auto hiding the task bar? Or you are married to having icons on the desktop?

    A dark theme and a launcher app might take care of both issues. I long ago got sick of icons on the desktop because you either have ones you never use cluttering up access to the few you do, or things get really out of control and ... yeah, we've seen those screenshots before. :D

    Interesting, there is a Transparent Taskbar app that is quite nice.

    apps.microsoft.com

    TranslucentTB - Official app in the Microsoft Store

    A lightweight (uses a few MB of RAM and almost no CPU) utility that makes the Windows taskbar translucent/transparent on Windows 10 and Windows 11. Runner up for the Microsoft Store App Awards 2022 - Community Choice Award: Open Platform! Thank you for voting for us!
    apps.microsoft.com

    Works well so far. This should remove the need to hide the task bar unless you always have the same apps open all the time.
     
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    rodalpho

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  • #33
    ant1pathy said:
    This alone is enough to make me "nope" out of an OLED for computer usage :p.
    Click to expand...
    That's my view as well.

    How many times have you walked back to your desktop to find the monitor never went to sleep because something in the background prevented it, like a video in steam? On my LCD I just grumble a bit, run powercfg /whatever to debug it, and fix the problem, no big deal. But on an OLED it would really bother me, even if that's irrational.
     
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  • #35
    rodalpho said:
    That's my view as well.

    How many times have you walked back to your desktop to find the monitor never went to sleep because something in the background prevented it, like a video in steam? On my LCD I just grumble a bit, run powercfg /whatever to debug it, and fix the problem, no big deal. But on an OLED it would really bother me, even if that's irrational.
    Click to expand...

    Years of cubicle life trained me to win+L when I get up from my computer.

    You guys are easily perturbed by very minor things.
     
    Paladin

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  • #37
    rodalpho said:
    That's my view as well.

    How many times have you walked back to your desktop to find the monitor never went to sleep because something in the background prevented it, like a video in steam? On my LCD I just grumble a bit, run powercfg /whatever to debug it, and fix the problem, no big deal. But on an OLED it would really bother me, even if that's irrational.
    Click to expand...
    Never really... not that I can remember. :unsure: I am generally in the habit of putting my computer to sleep when I get up after I finish using it. Unless it is my work computer and that powers off the screens after a timeout and locks itself no matter what. You can turn off the option to keep screens on for media playback.
     
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  • #38
    I had bought one of the new OLED 4K 32" monitors that came out this year (the MSI). Great IQ, and looked amazing in games. But in the end I returned it and got a regular ol' IPS, because I use it 90% for work and in the back of my mind I kept having that tiny little voice whispering "burn-in". And now I don't have that voice anymore and that's worth a lot to me.
     
    Paladin

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  • #40
    Makes sense, everyone does things differently. My preference is to have as little UI stuff in the way as possible when I am not looking at an actual application I am using. I make a folder for documents etc. when I am working on some specific thing. My desktop is for looking at my desktop wallpaper or it is covered up with windows of applications. No other middle ground really.
     
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