iFixit says new Arm Surface hardware “puts repair front and center”
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My wife had a Surface Pro 7 and really liked it- until the RAM went bad. After calling multiple repair places and online searches, it became clear that the only reasonable option was to chuck it in the trash because of a $35 part. Very frustrating.
Glad to hear they're improving.
Glad to hear they're improving.
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Nice idea for a tablet to have a m.2 socket. Especially an easily accessible one. Arguably something like the 12.9" iPad Pro might have more internal space than the older style MacBook Air. Having no keyboard or mousepad frees up a fair amount of space.
iFixit mentioned the use of adhesives. If opening an iPad to change the m2 drive or the battery required using a $10-ish one-use adhesive gasket to seal it up again, I would be absolutely OK with that.
As long as using the adhesive gasket was simple and easy, and it was easily available, and the system could be tested for functionality while still open.
iFixit mentioned the use of adhesives. If opening an iPad to change the m2 drive or the battery required using a $10-ish one-use adhesive gasket to seal it up again, I would be absolutely OK with that.
As long as using the adhesive gasket was simple and easy, and it was easily available, and the system could be tested for functionality while still open.
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I assume the major reliance they have now on corporate sales and trade-ins for refurb sales contributed to much of this. It just makes good economic sense to keep repairability in mind with design.
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I had a Surface Pro 4 and currently a Surface Pro 8. Within 2 years, always kept at home and never abused or packed for travel, they both developed white spots on the screen.
Never again.
Never again.
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That doesn't exactly strike me as "repair front and center", but compared to older Surface stuff the fact that the battery can be removed is a step forward.
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I guess this is graded on something of a curve compared only to other tablets? Because I sure wouldn't give any device that required being unglued and reglued to repair an 8 out of 10.
And having to remove rubber feet to access screws is annoying, too. They either need to be replaced entirely or have the adhesive replaced otherwise they don't stick and end up falling off. This is form-over-function nonsense. Who cares about having a few exposed screw heads on the bottom of a device? You never see them!
And having to remove rubber feet to access screws is annoying, too. They either need to be replaced entirely or have the adhesive replaced otherwise they don't stick and end up falling off. This is form-over-function nonsense. Who cares about having a few exposed screw heads on the bottom of a device? You never see them!
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Definitely, yeah. The article mentioned that this was basically graded on a curve (i.e. compared to other tablets, not the ideally repairable device), which I suppose makes sense.
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It would help if I read the entire article before commenting, wouldn't it?
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When you publish any Windows on ARM reviews please check if native ARM64 apps are available.
One of the biggest disappointments I've seen in reviews is reviewers download 7zip x64 not ARM64 and then complain about performance. Likewise for native FF, CPU-z, etc. CPU-z was especially infuriating because reviewers were like "software isn't ready for WoA, can't even read CPUID correctly"
One of the biggest disappointments I've seen in reviews is reviewers download 7zip x64 not ARM64 and then complain about performance. Likewise for native FF, CPU-z, etc. CPU-z was especially infuriating because reviewers were like "software isn't ready for WoA, can't even read CPUID correctly"
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henrythefool
Smack-Fu Master, in training
The surface laptops are obnoxious to repair compared to other laptops, but honestly pretty similar to most tablets.
For a standard ass iPad, replacing the battery requires heating the adhesive (not too hot or you’ll warp the plastic layer of the LCD), removing the digitizer, removing the LCD, and then completely gutting the thing, taking out the logic board, charging port, etc, before dealing with the glued in piece of shit battery.
The surface laptop, despite it’s terrible “remove the keyboard instead of the back” design, is relatively straightforward. And you can charge more, since it’s a more expensive and niche device.
For a standard ass iPad, replacing the battery requires heating the adhesive (not too hot or you’ll warp the plastic layer of the LCD), removing the digitizer, removing the LCD, and then completely gutting the thing, taking out the logic board, charging port, etc, before dealing with the glued in piece of shit battery.
The surface laptop, despite it’s terrible “remove the keyboard instead of the back” design, is relatively straightforward. And you can charge more, since it’s a more expensive and niche device.
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The surface scored so many points with that removable hard drive for me. It just opened up the line to so many possibilities. The fact that all laptops don't make it easy to repair or reven solder on still pissed me off.
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To be fair, most apps will be x64 running through the translation layer for the foreseeable future so it's also vital to test the normal scenario.
On the upside, my own experiments with Win/ARM (in a VM on an M1 Mac) indicated that MS's Win/x64 and Win/i32 -> Win/ARM translation layer is pretty acceptably fast even on that setup.
I'm looking forward to these giving Apple a bit of a kick up the arse to make the Macs better, the presence of any competition for their Mseries devices has been missed.
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You can repair the front, you can repair the center. The rest is a bit trickier
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Not bad, I have used a Latitude 5290 2-in-1 as my main tablet for a few years and just recently put in a 1TB ssd, wifi 6e card, and replaced the battery, which isn't half bad for a tablet form factor.
I love the irony of Microsoft waiting to finally switch to ARM and finally making something at least semi-upgradeable.
I love the irony of Microsoft waiting to finally switch to ARM and finally making something at least semi-upgradeable.
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While these Qualcomm/Arm based machines are more repairable, the RAM is soldered to the motherboard.
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LPCAMM2 should in theory restore repairability (and reasonably price RAM upgrades) to laptops and possibly tablets.
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The big three OEMs (Dell, HP, Lenovo) have made Surface-like devices that are (were?) easier to repair than their Microsoft equivalent. Unfortunately, only Microsoft seems to get any oxygen when we're talking about PC tablets.
I'm typing this on an HP Elite X2: the screen comes off with four screws, there's no glue, and the NVMe SSD is a standard M.2 2280. Dell's Latitude 12 and Lenovo's ThinkPad-whatever are/were similar (though I think one or both used a 2242 or 2230 SSD.). None of them have socketed RAM, but that's not really surprising.
The Surface has gotten better, but it's still not even the best in it's segment.
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The Surface Pros and Surface Laptops have been upgradable and getting better and better with repairability since the SP8 generation. That’s around when they added the SSD door on the SP and magnetic keyboard on the SL.
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One can only hope. My ideal device would be repairable with common tools and have a user replaceable battery and upgradeable RAM and SSD. That should be doable. There might be a slight size and weight penalty compared to a glued-together totally unserviceable device, but it shouldn't be huge, and to me the tradeoff would easily be worth it.
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Would love for Ars to follow up regarding Valve promising parts for Steam Deck repairs...as many parts are not sold.
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It's going to take OEMs using it, RAM vendors to offer it at reasonable prices, and customers who will actually buy the modules. Not saying it can't or won't happen, but that's a lot to ask these days...
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A cheap (like $10), reliable gasket and replacement feet kit would be a boon for these sorts of repairs. I'm typing this out on a Surface Pro 3 which is a "lol, no" on the repairability scale. It's fine for my purposes except that the battery capacity has started to nosedive in the last few months, so it's turning more and more into a tethered device. Not bad at 10 years old but a new battery would see it face the future with confidence.
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iFixit have said in the past that soldered RAM doesn't knock points off so long as it comes with a performance gain as a result. Hopefully they change that decision once LPCAMM2 becomes more common though.
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[EDIT]Oops, as alphaLONE has pointed out below, SSD NANDs are not integrated with the M1, only the controller is… but it’s still very unlikely Apple will go with user-replaceable, industry standard solutions due to the other evidence / reasons noted.
With the huge markups for SSD increases (easily charge 3-8x retail prices for upgrading between equivalent SSDs in the M.2 format, e.g. $400 from 1TB to 2TB vs a 980 Pro difference of $60 currently, not to mention that markup multiple itself is likely double given that Apple almost certainly pays wholesale prices) for their MacBooks and iPads, that approach is almost certainly not happening unless they are forced to by regulation - or they figure a way to keep their profit margins for such upgrades.
(I believe that’s what fellow human was trying to reference in his post without explaining it, not sure why people are downvoting it.)
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And watch the video! Feet appear to be reusable, not the ones with adhesive.
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It's become such a yo-yo with these companies. One moment they're being praised for their repair efforts, the next year the next version is the worst thing we've ever seen for sustainability. It's great to see one miracle fixable product, but I don't think I can ever trust one of these companies to continue down the proper path.
Sorry Microsoft, do it for ten years in a row and maybe i'll trust you.
Sorry Microsoft, do it for ten years in a row and maybe i'll trust you.
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The SSD isnt integrated with the RAM in any Apple Silicon device. They’re distinct. The storage chip(s) are on the motherboard while the RAM is on the SoC’s package. You “can” replace one independently of the other (in quotes because its a pain and not made to be repairable). The special quirk in the storage chips on the Apple Silicon machines, iirc, is that theyre just raw flash memory, the controller is within the SoC.
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Cool! Sadly this doesn’t help my poor old Surface Pro 4, which doesn’t work and needs a new battery. I think even now it’ll be better fixing it than buying something new - I do not rely on having a laptop at all, so my requirements are low - but it’s a pain. The battery being so hard to replace means the cost to repair is between 3 and 6 times higher than it otherwise would be - variable because of the risk of the screen breaking.
Next time I buy something shiny and new I will at least look at the repairability, but I wouldn’t be surprised if I do the stupid and get something like a MacBook (for the battery life) instead - but hey, MS, prove me wrong with these ARM Surfaces!
Next time I buy something shiny and new I will at least look at the repairability, but I wouldn’t be surprised if I do the stupid and get something like a MacBook (for the battery life) instead - but hey, MS, prove me wrong with these ARM Surfaces!
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There are exception to the "any Apple Silicon device". Mac Studios and Mac Pros have some of those weird flash chips on a m.2-look-a-like-but-not-acutally-m.2 blades that are replaceable without doing micro-soldering.
That still makes the "can" in quotes unless you go through official retail (Mac Pro, read: $$$) or repair channels, since you will not have a lot of fun sourcing those weird raw flash chips.
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Right, and the article I linked to even says that and shows it in the second picture there…
I guess I conflated the controller with the NAND?
Still, the point is that Apple isn’t interested in easy replaceable upgrades. They’ve fully shifted to making sure the upgrade is a new device…
Well, I take that back too. While the Mac Studio’s replaceable SSD module has no retail options and will only take a same-sized SSD from another Mac Studio (iFixit says won’t work with different sizes), Apple does sell replacement SSDs for the $7k+ Mac Pro… 8TB for $2,800, k thx.
(Oops, ninja’d by AndiCui…)
I guess they already found a way to ensure they ‘get theirs’…
([EDIT] Oh, and even in 2013, Apple was already diverging from the M.2 standard with their own proprietary connector… this isn’t something new.)
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I'm surprised the battery hasn't started to balloon on you yet. Last place I worked, we had to send more than half of them to the graveyard because of the battery swelling issue, so much so that it popped the screen out in a few of them.
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![:\](https://cdn.arstechnica.net/civis/data/assets/smilies/slash-1x.png "Slash :\")
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My wife's work Surface had to be replaced for that reason. Didn't realize it was so prevalent!
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Like which parts?
I see on iFixit's website every commonly replaced parts. Really, the only part I don't see there is the mainboard.
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This is funny though. The 2013 MacBook Pro predates the M.2 standard’s introduction by about a week and its predecessor had 2.5“ SATA.
MacBook Pro "Core i7" 2.8 13" Late 2013 Specs (Retina Late 2013 13", ME867LL/A, MacBookPro11,1, A1502, 2678): EveryMac.com
Technical specifications for the MacBook Pro "Core i7" 2.8 13" Late 2013. Dates sold, processor type, memory info, hard drive details, price and more.
M.2 - Wikipedia
Technically it’s not diverging if it was never convergent.
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